CHUD.com Community › Forums › CULTURE, HUMOR, & FREE FORM › Misc. Culture › 100 Most Influential Americans
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

100 Most Influential Americans

post #1 of 26
11/23/06 at 12:59pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200612/influentials

One question -- where the hell is JFK?!?
Reply
post #2 of 26
11/23/06 at 1:17pm
Points go to them for creating an actual, understandable list, as opposed to that History Channel special where Oprah was voted like the 5th greatest American of all time, with choices that actually make sense, and some pretty obscure ones, too.

JFK's probally the most glaring omnission, but I can think of two off the top of my head that they missed: Oscar Hammerstein II and DeWitt Clinton. From "Show Boat" to "Oklahoma" to "The Sound of Music," you could make the argument that Hammerstein helped invent the modern Broadway musical--still one of the few uniquely original American art forms. (See also: Jazz, the Western, the comic book--come to think of it, Siegel, Schuster, and Zane Grey should be on there, too). Clinton was instrumental in getting the Erie Canal built, which basically allowed New York City to become the commercial and financial capital of the world.
Reply
post #3 of 26
11/23/06 at 1:28pm
Thomas Paine is number 19? Below Mark Twain?

Unfortunately John Locke isn't an American.
Reply
post #4 of 26
11/24/06 at 11:00am
The Top 10 looks solid, though I'd probably bump John Marshall past Ben Franklin.

Great article.
Reply
post #5 of 26
11/24/06 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belethedheliel
Unfortunately John Locke isn't an American.
No, but Terry O'Quinn is. Close enough I guess.
Reply
post #6 of 26
11/24/06 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Savage
No, but Terry O'Quinn is. Close enough I guess.
Ba dum bump.

Seriously, the lack of JFK is emphasized by the inclusion of Papa Walmart.
Reply
post #7 of 26
11/27/06 at 3:19am
Albert Einstein is American? I could've sworn he was German.
Reply
post #8 of 26
11/27/06 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan
Albert Einstein is American? I could've sworn he was German.
He's had German, Swiss, Prussian, then lastly American citizenship in 1940.
Reply
post #9 of 26
11/28/06 at 11:53am
Quote:
96 Ralph Nader
He made the cars we drive safer; thirty years later, he made George W. Bush the president.
Funny.

And I'm just curious about what JFK did that would make people think he warrants inclusion on this list. He was a rock star president who made some good speeches and got killed on tape. I guess JFK established the Peace Corps. But as far as significant, long-reaching legislation, LBJ did the heavy lifting after JFK's assassination. Hence, his inclusion at #44.
Reply
post #10 of 26
11/28/06 at 1:30pm
Here's an interesting Boston Globe article on the list: Who's Missing from this "Top 100" List?
Reply
post #11 of 26
11/28/06 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
And I'm just curious about what JFK did that would make people think he warrants inclusion on this list. He was a rock star president who made some good speeches and got killed on tape. I guess JFK established the Peace Corps. But as far as significant, long-reaching legislation, LBJ did the heavy lifting after JFK's assassination. Hence, his inclusion at #44.
EXACTLY. Everyone likes to think of JFK as a Civil Rights leader, but all he ever did was talk. LBJ was the one with the stones and the know-how to actually get meaningful legislation passed.
Reply
post #12 of 26
11/28/06 at 2:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
And I'm just curious about what JFK did that would make people think he warrants inclusion on this list. He was a rock star president who made some good speeches and got killed on tape. I guess JFK established the Peace Corps. But as far as significant, long-reaching legislation, LBJ did the heavy lifting after JFK's assassination. Hence, his inclusion at #44.
Two words: space program. Kennedy did more to inspire the vision of NASA than any other president and was one of the prime motivators behing the Apollo program, and that alone merits his inclusion on the list.

But beyond that, influence goes way beyond what legislation he got passed. They don't refer to his administration as Camelot because he really liked the musical. His was probably the last presidency fully untainted by the cynicism and disillusionment the office has been draped with for decades -- most of the dirt about him didn't come to light until years after his death (due mostly to the unspoken code about not printing gossip about the president that fell by the wayside when Watergate rang the dinner bell). And there's always the specter of what he could have accomplished had he lived to serve his full term. Not to mention the years of conspiracy theories his assassination prompted.

He fully deserves to be on this list.
Reply
post #13 of 26
11/28/06 at 2:11pm
Having his presidency mythologized doesn't mean anything. It's gossip fodder.

What he could have accomplished? I think it's pretty well understood that the Civil Rights movement wouldn't have moved as quickly, and there's no way he passes the Voting Rights Act of 1965. As I said before, he was all talk.
Reply
post #14 of 26
11/28/06 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Miller
Seriously, the lack of JFK is emphasized by the inclusion of Papa Walmart.
While JFK should have been on there, you have to admit that Sam Walton has influenced the American (edit:world) retail shopping experience more than the person who put credit card machines at fast food places (great invention BTW). Like his politics or not, but he has altered the American landscape forever. I'd call that pretty influential.
Reply
post #15 of 26
11/28/06 at 2:44pm
Wal-Mart is changing global economics. That's a pretty big deal.
Reply
post #16 of 26
11/28/06 at 2:52pm
Thread Starter 
The fact that his presidency has been mythologized shows how influential he was. If he was a blip on the American consciousness, there's no way a myth would develop.

And again, let me emphasize, influence extends far beyond what legislation he came up with.
Reply
post #17 of 26
11/28/06 at 2:55pm
So, the actual things he did in office don't matter, rather, he's influential because of his image. One of the 100 most influential people should be the president who was more interested in boating and fucking than he was in actually influencing the world.
Reply
post #18 of 26
11/28/06 at 2:57pm
JFK's mythology was all about dying young. No more, no less. That doesn't make one influential.
Reply
post #19 of 26
11/28/06 at 3:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
So, the actual things he did in office don't matter, rather, he's influential because of his image. One of the 100 most influential people should be the president who was more interested in boating and fucking than he was in actually influencing the world.
"Ask not what your country can do for you," the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Apollo program, "Ich bin ein Berliner," the Peace Corps -- you're acting like he sat back and nailed Marilyn for two years.
Reply
post #20 of 26
11/28/06 at 3:14pm
Quoting those lines basically prove my point. He was all talk. He was well-regarded because he said great things, not because he did them.

The space program and the peace corp isn't enough to be considered one of the most influential people in the history of the country. You think he should be on there just because he's famous. Humphrey Bogart was loved by millions and is still considered by some to be the personification of Hollywood cool, should he be on there?
Reply
post #21 of 26
11/28/06 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
A lot of the people on that list are novelists and songwriters who didn't do anything but say great things either.
Reply
post #22 of 26
11/28/06 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
A lot of the people on that list are novelists and songwriters who didn't do anything but say great things either.
Are you comparing the literary contributions of Twain, Whitman, and Faulkner with "Ich bin ein Berliner?" I guess the bar for what makes a great/influential president is a little higher with a bunch of the greats already on the list.
Reply
post #23 of 26
11/28/06 at 10:15pm
As far as writers go, the exclusion of Emerson is a glaring oversight. The scope of Thoreau's work is wider, but Emerson inspired the entire Transcendental movement. He defined America in prose as Whitman did in poetry. He deserves inclusion.

And as for JFK, I guess it comes down to a question of what is more influential: accomplishment or inspiration. Kennedy inspired, Johnson got shit done. Frankly, I think it was a bold decision to chose LBJ over JFK, and the right one.
Reply
post #24 of 26
11/29/06 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61
As far as writers go, the exclusion of Emerson is a glaring oversight. The scope of Thoreau's work is wider, but Emerson inspired the entire Transcendental movement. He defined America in prose as Whitman did in poetry. He deserves inclusion.

And as for JFK, I guess it comes down to a question of what is more influential: accomplishment or inspiration. Kennedy inspired, Johnson got shit done. Frankly, I think it was a bold decision to chose LBJ over JFK, and the right one.
Um, check #33. Ralph Waldo Emerson is on the list 32 places above Thoreau. Unless you are talking about "It's Pat: The Movie" scribe Jim Emerson. And while I hear he has some good screenplays kicking around Hollywood, I would hardly say any of them "define America in prose."
Reply
post #25 of 26
11/29/06 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
A lot of the people on that list are novelists and songwriters who didn't do anything but say great things either.
But that's what novelists do. Great presidents are supposed to be more than talk. Lincoln isn't considered great just because of his State of the Union, but rather because he did something about it. But then you have Kennedy who said "ask what you can do for your country", and then proceeded to use his power to drink with the Rat Pack and bag chicks.
Reply
post #26 of 26
11/30/06 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
Um, check #33. Ralph Waldo Emerson is on the list 32 places above Thoreau. Unless you are talking about "It's Pat: The Movie" scribe Jim Emerson. And while I hear he has some good screenplays kicking around Hollywood, I would hardly say any of them "define America in prose."
I am an idiot. I must have been too busy wondering if Einstein was an America and just didn't notice.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Misc. Culture
CHUD.com Community › Forums › CULTURE, HUMOR, & FREE FORM › Misc. Culture › 100 Most Influential Americans