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"Who Do You Think You're Fooling?" and "You're Still Not Fooling Anybody" discussion

post #1 of 17
11/29/06 at 9:15pm
Thread Starter 
I've heard about Mike White's two part slam against Tarantino for years.

It wasn't until this past weekend that I actually got to see both short films that charge "Reservoir Dogs" and "Pulp Fiction" with being outright rips of previously established work.

It's no secret that Tarantino borrows from everyone that ever made a genre flick. But, is it really worth investing in two short films to take a man to task for something so trivial?

These are the questions that I've asked myself since seeing both films and I want to get the general Chewer opinion on it.

Are these flicks right to go after Tarantino? Or is it just petty bullshit created to attract attention to Mike White?

I know that not everyone has seen both short films, but I'd really like to hear any opinions on the matter.
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post #2 of 17
11/29/06 at 9:30pm
I watched them both on YouTube a while back and was left with a general sense of "Who gives a shit?". It's common knowledge that Tarantino borrows and steals from any number of films. Lots of people do. It's the way he does it and the spin he puts on it that makes him who he is, not to mention the actual original stuff that makes up the vast majority of his work. Pointing out that "pliers and a blow torch" comes from Charley Varrick misses the point that it's the flow of that piece of dialogue (and "Go medieval on your ass") that makes that section in Fiction sing, not just the mention of the tools. Plus, I always took that to be that Marcellus caught Varrick and figured pliers and a blow torch would be a good way to go.

But who cares? Reservoir Dogs lifts a lot from City on Fire. I'd still rather watch Dogs. He can steal what he likes as long as he makes interesting and entertaining films.

Added to which, does anyone care that Tarantino has motivated who knows how many people to look up some of these films that might not have done so otherwise? Good for him.

Final verdict: Mike White should lighten up.
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post #3 of 17
11/29/06 at 9:30pm
I haven’t seen the shorts, though they sound interesting, but I do shake my head when folks start calling Tarantino a hack who has only gotten where he is by ripping off the work of others.

Obviously there are moments in Tarantino’s films that were inspired by other movies. But he tends to take those moments and use them to make great films. I don’t see a problem with that. If he was to swipe, as an example, from DEATH RIDES A HORSE and really have no reason to do so then go ahead and call him out on that. But the elements he took from that film and applied to KILL BILL worked perfectly in the context of the story he was telling.
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post #4 of 17
11/29/06 at 9:32pm
I'd hate to hear how Mike White feels about Spaced.
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post #5 of 17
11/29/06 at 9:39pm
Is this the same Mike White who wrote "School of Rock", "Nacho Libre" and "Dead Man On Campus"? Because I like him, but he doesn't have a leg to stand up on in this argument.
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post #6 of 17
11/29/06 at 10:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfunk
Is this the same Mike White who wrote "School of Rock", "Nacho Libre" and "Dead Man On Campus"? Because I like him, but he doesn't have a leg to stand up on in this argument.
It's a different guy. This dude's only other claim to fame is a Billy Idol biopic.
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post #7 of 17
11/29/06 at 10:45pm
Mike White needs to investigate Sam Raimi.

This is a screenshot from a 1970 film called Sssssss:

And here's one from Raimi's 1990 film Darkman:



Sssssss:

Darkman:



Sssssss:

Darkman:



That Sam Raimi... who does he think he's fooling?

(Note: Just in case it's lost on someone, yes this is sarcasm)
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post #8 of 17
11/29/06 at 10:47pm
The sad thing is that Empire magazine exposed the similarities even before Mike White did. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU'RE FOOLING just looked redundant by the time it was released.
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post #9 of 17
12/5/06 at 1:30am
Yes, screenshots of Sssssss! Damn right.

Someone get DePalma on the phone and tell him to stop ripping off Hitchcock.

Star Wars borrows heavily from The Wizard of Oz, Seven Samauri, and The Hidden Fortress, amoung others. Carpenter's ending to Halloween is basically the same one used in Black Christmas, John Woo, when was good, stole from Peckinpah and Ford constantly. Kinda how the movies work.

Not like Tarantino claimed otherwise. Fuck this Mike guy with a big fat Viking Boat Oar.
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post #10 of 17
12/6/06 at 12:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Zod
Yes, screenshots of Sssssss! Damn right.

Someone get DePalma on the phone and tell him to stop ripping off Hitchcock.

I saw him at a screening of "Vertigo" in Santa Monica a few months ago with his daughter. At least DePalma has a sense of humor about it ("Of course, all I do is rip off Hitchcock"), whereas Tarantino just seems ultra-defensive whenever asked about lifting material from others (and for the record, I think
"Kill Bill" took one too many details from "Lady Snowblood").
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post #11 of 17
12/6/06 at 12:44am
Holy shit. "Ssssss" freaked me out when I saw it at the drive-in.

Tarantino's main crime against cinema is all the Tarantino hacks he spawned. Guys copying Tarantino who've never seen the films Tarantino is riffing on. Brrr.
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post #12 of 17
12/6/06 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70sCinema
Tarantino's main crime against cinema is all the Tarantino hacks he spawned. Guys copying Tarantino who've never seen the films Tarantino is riffing on. Brrr.
And that's Tarantino's fault how exactly? It's like people who blamed Lucas for all the crappy sci-fi films that got rushed out after Star Wars.
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post #13 of 17
12/6/06 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
And that's Tarantino's fault how exactly? It's like people who blamed Lucas for all the crappy sci-fi films that got rushed out after Star Wars.
It's not. I was being silly in my cause and effect example, and placing his involuntary influence on others above his "riffing" on the "crimes against cinema" list. Or something.
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post #14 of 17
12/6/06 at 1:55pm
The part that made me laugh while watching the Res/City doc: Who Do You Think You're Fooling? was the subtitle that read "Bill! They've killed Bill!" The plot does seem very similar, but QT's dialogue is what makes that movie crackle, not the unoriginal idea of a botched robbery or an undercover cop.

What I find hard to believe (in this news clip intro: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QVd_oxuAuQc ) is that QT never saw the CYF original. He's seen everything.
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post #15 of 17
12/10/06 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beamish13
I saw him at a screening of "Vertigo" in Santa Monica a few months ago with his daughter. At least DePalma has a sense of humor about it ("Of course, all I do is rip off Hitchcock"), whereas Tarantino just seems ultra-defensive whenever asked about lifting material from others (and for the record, I think
"Kill Bill" took one too many details from "Lady Snowblood").

DePalma has to have a sense of humor. Anyone see Femme Fatale?
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post #16 of 17
12/12/06 at 1:08am
Biggest problem I had with the shorts was the implication (from the title) that Tarantino was trying to fool someone. He has openly admitted that he steals from these films and I think the only real argument against him really taking something is "City On Fire". The others were pretty much little dialouge he took, more of an homage in my opinion. I view it the same as rappers who borrow lines from songs they like.

I saw both of these on the DVD for "My Best Friend's Birthday" (Tarantino's unfinished first movie) and while they were amusing. They really weren't telling me anything I didn't know.
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post #17 of 17
12/17/06 at 11:10pm
They're called influences. People have 'em.
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