Clerks 2

I mostly agree. I'm no huge Kevin Smith fan, but there is a certain amount of amusement from certain little conversations in the film. I enjoyed hearing the Christian logic for why "robots turning into cars is really not that blasphemous" and damnit, Jay can still be a funny sonofabitch. Granted, not quite as funny as before, but parts of the movie made me laugh.

Now, on the whole, its a pretty terrible movie. And I think that by not even being able to do your own schtick well anymore, it pretty much proves that Kevin Smith is not a good director. The donkey show is so stupid, irregardless of any questions of taste, that I can almost understand Joel Siegel throwing a fit.

And what's with the drastic tonal shift in the end. It becomes so deadly, ploddingly serious I couldn't believe it. Randall actually says "I love you man" in all seriousness.

The movie's problems are much more apparent after watching it again on DVD. The scene on the swings feels just awkward, partly due to the music either being the wrong choice or too loud. Some jokes fall flat since there isn't an audience around me telling me when to laugh. And goddammit Smith's wife can't act.

Still, my friends and I had fun and I guess it was kind of expected for Randall to add his two cents on LOTR. Its freshness is gone, but that's what you get when you have a sequel to a 12 year old movie.

And Earthquake is a very funny stand-up.

Yes, yes, and yes.

It's fine for a single viewing. But damn it, there's so many scenes that I think would just be unwatchable a second time. For every joker that halfway connects there's a dozen that crash and burn.

Though the thought of Rosario Dawson going ass to mouth is what it is, such scenes suggest that Kevin Smith spends more time watching pornography than hanging out with human beings. Discussion of this opens the door to all sorts of uninteresting dicussions about posters, but observational evidence suggests that that sort of thing isn't all that common, and even if done would likely not be talked about in public, even if Rosario Dawson was trying to steal away such a loser from his fiancee. Smith was likely trying to top himself in terms of outrageousness which is one of the main faults of the film. The jokes are more over the top than actually funny.

The other thing about Kevin's wife playing that role is that since his films obviously aren't too far removed from his own worldview, it suggests something meta, and kinda creepy.

"Clerks 2" proves that pop culture references alone aren’t funny nor is frank sexual discourse. There has to be some humor injected into those topics. The difference is apparent when you compare the sexual scar scene from "Chasing Amy," which is blunt but hysterical because of the revelations on how each scar was received, and the ass-to-mouth discussion from “Clerks 2”, which feels more like an ideological debate than a joke.

The humor in "Clerks 2" is lazy. I laughed more during a 20 minute episode of the “Clerks” cartoon than the entire 90 minute running time of this feature and the reason half of the “Clerks” episodes were so consistently funny is because the show forced Smith to be creative. Jay and Silent Bob couldn’t sell drugs, f-bombs couldn’t be dropped left and right, and sexual discussion couldn’t be uninhibited if allowed at all, but when episodes were working, the laughs were constant.

Also, Dante and Randall can't at all act.

guess i'm gonna be the burn victim here

*suits up*


i liked it. still do.

saw it once in theatres with bout 6 or 7 friends, and laughed our asses off.

then downloaded it again cause i just wanted to see it

laughed ass off. though not as much.

mostly cause the jokes wern't 'fresh' like in the theatre

i dunno, i'll probably buy it on dvd and give it another shot. it will probably make me laugh a little bit less, and less every time i watch it. but shit some of that stuff is awsome.

but then i've liked everything he's done except chasing amy, and i havn't seen jersey girl.

so maybe i just like dick and fart jokes

then again i also like the stooges so what can i say?

I'm with you Alanthar. If it helps, I've found from reading these very boards that it's ok to enjoy Kevin Smith's movies, just don't talk about it on here. Liking Kevin Smith here is kind of like farting in church.

It's more like laughing at the guy who farts in church, after he's been farting in church for a decade.

And creating toys, t-shirts, and tell-all Q&A sessions about the scent and consistency of said farts.

My main problem with Smith is that he hasn't improved one iota since Clerks. It's obvious the original Clerks is a first timer's effort, by someone just learning how to position the cameras and pace the scenes and dialogue. The thing is all of his other movies feel like that. Mallrats was a woeful attempt at teen farce, Chasing Amy was a woeful attempt at a romcom, and Dogma was nothing much really. Lots of unserious musing about the nature of goodness and religon with a hint of college dorm room bong-hit philosophizing. I didn't see Jay and SIlent Bob Strike Back, partly because it looked like crap so I'd given up, and partly because Jason Mewes is one of the most annoying performers to ever weasel his way across the screen.
He still has no idea of how to pace a scene or do dialogue that doesn't sound awkward.

Then I saw Jersey Girl, which is basically the sort of pic Chris Columbus or Garry Marshall would helm but done in Smith-o-vision. And if there's one thing Smith does worse than pop-cult-ref and sniggering adolescent sex humor, it's attempting to tell stories about being an "adult" with "feelings" and "conflicts" and teary eyes, etc.

So I saw parts of Clerks II and it looked awful. The usual "pop cult ref and sinnger adolescent sex humor" mixed in with scenes of Dante or Whosis, whichever, the guy who looks like a pudgy, goateed adult-sized toddler, rambling incoherently about moving on or growing up or settling for something or other.

Ugh.

I thought it was a bag of blark, but my wife thought it was solid. I thought it was nowhere near as good as Mallrats, or Clerks, but it did have some kinda funny moments.

Clerks 2:
Everything I read about it, and the assorted trailers I viewed placed me into the "not worth seeing" mindset. But I had a slight hope riding on the lowered expectations angle, once the dvd came out. But I've quit debating whether or not it is at least worth a rental. I'm going to pass. (I am a fan of the original, btw.)

I am also currently debating whether or not X-MEN 3 and SUPERMAN RETURNS are worth the time... as they too were missed in the theatre. They are currently on my "eh, I'll rent them one day" list. But they are slowly creeping out of sight.

LOVED it in theatres. Thought it was very funny, even if it's lead is a fucking shitty actor.

Watched it again on DVD: ouch. Nearly every single joke falls flat, even the previously hysterical "Porch Monkey" scene.

Watched it for the first time this weekend, and I know I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed it. Yes, upon viewing it, you can tell that Smith has grown every little over the last ten years, but I got to say, I laughed a lot during the movie.

It was perfect for what I wanted it for. To laugh - it accomplished that.

What rigorous criticism.

I expected it to be a film featuring the characters Dante and Randall from Clerks. It was. What an accomplishment.

I expected it to be a "serious" look at these characters, this generation, as they reach the 30's. What does the Slacker generation do next? That's what Smith said the film was going to be when it was first announced.

I've deduced this isn't what Clerks 2 is at all.

They DO cover Ass-To-Mouth...

Loved it in theaters, bought the DVD, watched it this weekend, loved it again.

I'm a fan. I like the dialogue, I thought the jail scene is incredibly moving (and yeah, a little awkward, but it's supposed to be. It's two guys declaring their love for one another and they're straight and not used to such openness. It's supposed to be weird.), and laughed a lot in it. It ain't Shakespeare, but I enjoyed it immensely.

So you get Jason Lee for a one day cameo but he can't shave his MY NAME IS EARL mustache and fuzz. Of course you make him the rich yuppie. So fucking stupid.

I never thought about that. I don't think Kevin Smith is capable of being that subtle.

**Referring to Moltisanti's post

I just thought that Jason Lee

there to represent all the "prior relationships" that Smith had with actors that went on to other things especially after JASBSB when they all had in character cameos...it has sort of been done already or they had no extra time this time around.

I personally thought that the movie was the least of all his films (Chasing Amy, Clerks, Mallrats, Dogma, J&SBSB, Jersey Girl, and now this). I really felt no connection between the first and second movie except that they both happen to have characters called by the same names.

What happened to the girlfriend from the first film? I expected her to be there to be the "conformist" that they were still rebelling against. I really thought that there would be a billboard accross from Mooby's advertising her law office or something. To be a spectre of responsbility / adulthood that he let go of in the years since the film. If not there, I thought that in the car going to the fucking awful "go karts" scene there would have at least been a mention but instead the car wash girl takes her place. Fine but at least a mention. For a man that makes such a big deal out of his universe, where was the missing cast member?

Other things that ain't Shakespeare:
David Mamet's Edmond
The 400 Blows
My Couch
Don Ho
Florida

I think, objectively, Kevin Smith is terrible with actors, and has a very marginal idea of how to frame shots (very much point and shoot), as evinced by C2. After twelve years making films professionally, I think you have to acknowledge these things about his craft. I think also that it's fair to say Smith copped out about his original intentions of what this movie should be, the difference in these people twelve years on is marginal, and then the film offers the most fantastical ending ever that manages to also be one of the most unintentionally depressing - Smith seems to have regressed since the first film. I can understand that Smith hits the right nerd buttons to make a funny joke or two, but "ain't Shakespeare" is such laziness.

As for Devin's point, yes the idea was to get Jason Lee back, obviously, but instead of working with what he had, Smith used him in a role that didn't totally make sense for him and his look. Smith counts on his audience to not think about it cause it's Jason Lee, and he's got to be in the film.

I'm sorry I didn't have the time to write a thesis paper on why I liked CLERKS 2, Andre. When someone feels like paying me for some serious film criticism maybe I'll try to tackle it, but until then, "enjoyed it immensely" will have to do.

Brian O'Halloran makes Wallace Shawn look like Leann Tweeden.

I'm one of the few who actually liked the jail scene. I think Anderson sold it much better than some of us are willing to admit. Jay and Bob having money to reopen the store is a ridiculously cheap out.

As for Elias, he is one dimensional. All his character needed to be was a punching bag for Randall while Dante was somewhere advancing the plot. Works for me. Besides, the pillow pants bit is worth the character's existence (even though the scene ended abruptly).

I still stand by my earlier post that Clerks II wasn't how I remembered it in the theaters (probably because I was stoned), but there's still plenty to like about it. It has just about nothing to do with the original Clerks tonally, but neither did the Animated Series.

This movie is all about the wonders of staying in a rut, pure and simple. That is what it's about. Never changing, never broadening your horizons, but making sure everything stays exactly the same. Even the choice of music, nothing past 1996 if I recall, it's like those guys who still go to the high school football games ten, fifteen years out, who still think it's perfectly acceptable to wear acid washed jeans and B.U.M. equipment sweatshirts, and who are still rockin' the Dokken on the way to the game. It's never going to get any better for them.

This is the defining Kevin Smith movie, because it's obvious this is the guy's grand worldview. It's an ode to extended adolescence. Pretty sad.

The movie made me laugh a few times, but when Randall wasn't on screen it really dragged. Admittedly, I did laugh at the Buffalo Bill dance, but that's just a good bit, bound to get a chuckle out of me every time.

I think Rosario Dawson is a fine actress and all, but I did not believe for a moment she would actually fuck this thirty whatever year old fast food jockey, let alone join him in matrimony.

Only in the movies would a chick that looks like Dawson go for a bloated, splotchy, sickly guy that looks like Dante. No way in hell. Unless he was loaded.

The Donkey show stuff failed miserably. Would have worked better if we didn't see the antics, but only the characters reactions to said show.

The ABC musical interlude was really the only time the movie showed any sign of life. It seemed Smith's take on the material was mostly affectionate. If he's telling his character to grow up, already, he should have mocked them with a little more zeal.

Randall came off as a bitter, jealous asshole.

Smith's wife is ugly.

Jason Mewes needs to lay off the drugs.

I thought about describing in detail why this was one of the worst movies I have ever seen, and one of only about five movies I have ever turned off/walked out on after investing time or effort into seeing it, but decided to recoup some of the time I wasted on this movie.

I can't think of any director who has had more of a hit or miss career than Smith.

Well, hey, thanks for participating in the discussion! Some day you'll be paid like the rest of us CHUD regulars.

Well, hey, thanks for participating in the discussion! Some day you'll be paid like the rest of you CHUD regulars.

Total side note: I'm pretty sure Mewes is clean.

This movie sucked.

Saw this last night. I shut it off halfway through to watch some of the new Noah Wyle Librarian movie on TNT. Take that as you will.

holy crap, that was awful. just awful. I really wanted to like it actually, but damn, fucking awful.

It's like Smith came full circle on his career... but instead of it ending with a cathartic cap to the Askew-niverse, reminding us of the young film-maker just starting out with some promise (Clerks 1= decent dialogue delivered by inexperienced actors)... it just looks tired. Same ol dialogue (peppered with more bitterness) delivered by actors who haven't improved a lick (reminds me of Ed Burns' fondness of using the unskilled Maxine Bahns early on). When you as a director are a better actor than the leads you're directing, you gotta move on and find some better talent. There are reasons why O'Halloran, Anderson (and the mentioned Maxine Bahns) haven't been in much else. Rosario sticks out like a sore thumb with her looks and abilities. There's a reason why Chasing Amy stands out as the favorite amongst critics.

Randall and Dante scream out to me as the 2 halves of Kevin Smith and it comes off as rather sad. One, a bitter hater of certain pedigrees of fanboy with a potty mouth (who is also perfectly happy in his bubble)... and the other, a scared "lovable" shlub who can't bear to move on with his life (and yet can score a chick out of his league). By the end of the flick, I was so tired of the location, I wanted to move to Florida (oh wait, I am in FL). It's awkward to force me to sypathize for characters who seem to hate their existence so much (by being complete assholes) and yet are content to live the miserable roles they're destined to fill. Keep reaching for that rainbow...

Incidentally, I had the exact same discussion with someone a few years ago who didn't realize that "Porch Monkey" was a racial slur and that it didn't refer to lazy people who hang out on their porches (they also used the term ignorantly in front of a black person= ouch).

I never did figure out why moving to Florida with his fiancee was a bad thing. The had a job and a place to live waiting for them. The screenplay told me why of course, but I was looking for a logical reason.

Unless Dante and Randall were queer for each other, and yes, I mean in that way, what was the problem?

Darkmites nailed it, they are spoiled, immature assholes, who seemed to enjoy their pathetic existence as well as just being total cocks to each other and everyone else unfortunate enough to meet them.

Thank's for the film, Kev. Cock.

This is easily going to make my worst of the year list. It actually gets worse and more irritating the more I think about it.

I was at first thinking people were a bit harsh dumping on this, but I will ditto the sentiment, Stew. The more it stays in my head, the more I just want Smith to wear a pair of real pants and shut his smug mouth up.

I want silence on the Smith front!

Now, in fairness, that dance sequence was the only time the film showed any signs of life to me. Granted, it's out of place and a bit stupid, but it's the only time it felt like they were doing anything aside from going through the motions. It's the only moment that felt like they were having any fun making the movie. The donkey show is the most painfully unfunny "joke" I've seen in movies in ages. It goes on so long, gets so unfunny, that I can't believe that a group of them were sitting around saying "Dude fucks a donkey: Comic Gold!". That and the ultra-sappy, 100% serious ending, and you have a movie I hate.

Having just rented this a couple days ago, I guess I'll chime in. I didn't hate the movie, but it depressed the hell out of me. I'm not sure why exactly, but it probably had to do with the theme of fatalistic self-defeating acceptance. In fact, this theme pretty much nullified the whole epiphany at the end of the original. The fact that our heroes buy Quick Stop didn't provide much uplift either, considering the Deux ex Machina way it happened.

Another aspect that bothered me was the redundancy of the jokes, most of which felt very much like Smith was going through the motions by riffing on "shocking" subjects like ass to mouth. Tired, tired, tired.

Unlike the original, Clerks 2 didn't even offer the slightest observations of the featured industry. I mean, how difficult would it have been to find humor in the monotonous existence of a fast food server? There's a couple of token fast food jokes, but for the most part Dante and Randall could have been working anywhere.

I laughed a couple of times, but all in all, pretty weak stuff.

For those of you who didn't like it...

For those of you who didn't like it, including this sites reviewer, I only have one thing to say:

No, no, that's not what he meant at all. I can't believe how wrong you got it. Just sit down, I'm embarrassed for both of us.

"Of course, all the townspeople wildly praised the magnificent clothes of the emperor, afraid to admit that they could not see them, until a small child said:

"But he has nothing on!"

-Hans C Andersen