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Rant With Me: Why Does the Girl ALWAYS Fall, & Other Cliches

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
I was watching "Penny Dreadful" at the AFter Dark Films Horrorfest last month (BTW, IMO this was the best film at the Fest). Our heroine was running from the killer and my brother whispered "She's gonna fall." I thought 'No, this movie hasn't been THAT hacky so far. I have faith they won't go down that road." Sure enough, soon as the thought crossed my mind, she looked back, stumbled and fell. even the best film in the Fest couldn't resist the hacky girl falls while running away bit.

Y'know, I understand the concept of going w/ a formula that works. I don't have as much of a problem w/ rehashing old story ideas (as opposed to filming remakes; I'm thinking more of how "Dark Ride" was almost the same basic story as "Funhouse", not how the '04 version of DotD was a remake of the 70's version). Sometimes it's interesting to see how someone else interprets the same idea (like listening to a cover version of a great song).

But WHY does the girl running from the monster/killer ALWAYS have to look back, ALWAYS stumble, and ALWAYS fall?! Don't tell me "because it builds tension." MAYBE it did the 1st dozen or so times we saw it. but it's done in EVERY freakin' movie now! This scene has become a parody of itself. We as serious fans roll our eyes and groan, or laugh, when we see it done yet again. The guys who make films CAN'T (Oh, God, I SO hope they can't) be that out of touch w/ their audience that they don't realize the contempt we hold for this overused cinematic device, can they? Just once I'd like to see the heroine keep running, and maybe a long shot from the front or side of the Thing/Killer catching up JUST BY RUNNING FASTER, maybe reaching out and grasping at her, touching (but failing to get a grip on) her hair trailing in the breeze. . . . Be a refreshing change, no?

I also hate the car that won't start. This fucking car starts every morning, dependable as Lou Fucking Gehrig, w/o the driver giving it a second thought. But now, just because someone/thing is after our hero, NOW they can't get it started. We've all seen this one become cliche due to terrible overuse over the years as well, and we groan when we see this one, too. But they insist on doing it in Hollywood, for some mind boggling reason. I don't know much about cars, so correct me if I'm wrong, somebody, but almost all cars made these days are fuel injection as opposed to carboreuters, right? Isn't it impossible to flood a fuel injected engine the way a carboreuter would? So WHY THE HELL WON'T THE DAMN THINGS START?

Do these things irk you as much as they irk me? I seriously think overuse of devices like these are among the sort of things that get horror films in general panned by critics, who are less likely to take them seriously and recommend them to people who might otherwise enjoy them. And who can blame them? If the movie they're watching screams "Hackneyed!" by its overuse of such tired old cliches why SHOULD they review it generously, regardless of what else it's got going for it? We will because we love the genre, and are willing to overlook a lot. But why should we have to keep overlooking so much? There's other reasons, to be sure, that horror isn't taken as seriously as a genre as maybe it should, but this has gotta be one of them. If these damn filmmakers would stop churning out films that contain this hacky crap, maybe they'd get a bit more notice & credibility for themselves, their films, and the genre in general. I have to believe that would result in better films for us to watch.

Is anyone with me on this? Are there any other cliches you wanna rant n' rave about?

Or am I alone in the wilderness screaming at trees again?
post #2 of 46
Fake Cat Scare!!!!

Who keeps locking the kitty in the linen closet, anyway?
post #3 of 46
Thread Starter 
Those fucking cats. . . . I own 3, all high strung rescued strays, and that has NEVER happened to me.
post #4 of 46
Iggy, I am loving your threads. Just thought you should know.

Just watched The Descent tonight, and while I really dug it it's got all sorts of cliches that'd make any horror fan immediately know what was going to happen.

Like when the girl starts running off by herself cause she thinks she sees the exit.

Or when the girl hears a noise, investigates it, turns back and then- AHHH! Monster jumps out.

That last one always annoys me. It'd be so easy for a director to turn the tables on that kind of jump scare, but whenever it's spooky and silent and someone starts walking backwards you know nothing good will ever come of it.
post #5 of 46
Related to the car not starting, it also seems that horror and thriller movie people have more keys on their key ring than the damn high school janitor. Simplify, man.
post #6 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
I also hate the car that won't start. This fucking car starts every morning, dependable as Lou Fucking Gehrig, w/o the driver giving it a second thought. But now, just because someone/thing is after our hero, NOW they can't get it started.
Yeah, that one definitely bothers me. I mean, if the characters are poor students on a road trip and there's a running gag of the car being unreliable, then it's one thing. But when the perfectly normal newish car won't start at just the wrong moment... c'mon, like there isn't a better way to build suspense.

I also hate the guns that don't work right. They fire 297 rounds from a 12 round magazine, then the semi-automatic gun "clicks" so the audience is supposed to assume its empty (when an autoloaders would actually be misfiring if that was the case; they lock open when empty). What ever happened to: I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
post #7 of 46
I'm loving watching hack film makers get their last yardage off of the already cliche "cell phone not getting reception" mostly because there's still some jokers who can't even justify it. The Hills Have Eyes using it is one thing. Something like Dark Ride doing it is quite another. It isn't long before we have reception that never goes out and batteries that have disgusting amounts of shelf life. What are horror movie writers going to do then? I can't wait for this day, personally, because then some sort of original outcome will have to be created instead of this lazy "no signal" bullshit.
post #8 of 46
Essentially, horror film makers tend to target the 15-25 crowd with their products, as that's the largest demographic for the genre. Considering you have a complete turnover of that age range every ten years, sticking with the tried and true plot devices that have succeeded in the past makes a whole lot of sense. Horror fanatics (i.e. everyone in this thread) note the repetition, but your average high school date night crowd is scared, tensed, and ready to jump as soon as they throw that cat out of the closet. Those situations work, so the lazy film makers who aren't trying to introduce anything new to their lifetime audience, rehashes them over and over for the next generation.

While I appreciate when a film maker really goes for something new, true horror aficionados make up too small a percentage for film makers to pander to us. It's why little gems like "Feast", who smartly try to break those standard tactics, are so well received by old school fans. It's shocking low-budget horror to the teens, but we appreciate a thumbing of the nose to the standard horror film playbook. Why they can't make more films that play to both sides is because that requires far more passion for the genre, and actual talent, than possessed by the majority of Hollywood screen-writers.
post #9 of 46
At the risk of stating the obvious, instead of ranting, why don't you go out and find better films to watch? That way you'd be giving money to people who're trying to make interesting and original stuff, rather than the endless succession of fucking remakes we're being subjected to at the moment.
post #10 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Williams
At the risk of stating the obvious, instead of ranting, why don't you go out and find better films to watch? That way you'd be giving money to people who're trying to make interesting and original stuff, rather than the endless succession of fucking remakes we're being subjected to at the moment.
This is of course a viable plan, and since I've been here at Creature Corner, I've been turned on to a whole lot of new (and hopefully better) things, and I certainly plan to continue down that road. But these things seem to happen at avery level of horror filmmaking, pretty consistently, from low budget, B movie, straight to DVD fare (like the Horrorfest movies mentioned above) to the "mainstream" relatively big budget remakes you're talking about. As much good stuff as there is out there, it's hard to get away from these hack bits.

If any of you have perused Darkmite's "Closet Space" thread, you'll note that the director himself posted a reply, responding to some of Darkmites' criticisms. I guess I hoped there were other industry people hanging around this site who might see a well populated rant thread like this (here or anywhere else anyone may have been inspired to speak on this topic) and give the course of their next film some thought. I gather from what Al says, some of them pay attention to his reviews. Maybe they're looking at other stuff on this site, too.

Of course, Death Surge makes an excellent point, as well. And where easy money is concerned, Hollywood won't take too many risks trying to get a return on its investment in a film. And for good or ill, the cliches will continue.
post #11 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce
Fake Cat Scare!!!!
Along the same lines, how about the creepy-but-not-the-killer character that always seems to be lurking about behind a door or something?
post #12 of 46
Surge is right, we're all spoiled.

I was thinking that while watching the After Dark Horrorfest. It was more entertaining watching the audience jump and scream than noticing the obvious jump scares coming yourself. It's so much different than watching it with a bunch of horror vets.

But on the flip side I think that why the Japanese remakes got so popular a few years ago was because it was something people weren't familiar with. Gave us a new way of creeping everyone out.

But now of course though every friggin' Asian horror film seems to copy the same formulas that Ringu and Ju-On used, and it's all pretty much crap again.

It's just always good to see someone try something new.
post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce
Fake Cat Scare!!!!

Who keeps locking the kitty in the linen closet, anyway?
Peter Hyams is a "Cat Scare" whore. He's got one in the Relic and End of Days.

The cliche that's getting a little old nowadays: The Inevitable Plot Twist
Horror movies love this one. On small or large scale. Ever since the Twilight Zone and Hitchcock perfected it, M Night's abused it (with some storytelling skill mind you)...

"You mean the mild-mannered guy is actually a killer AND he dresses up as his dead mother to do it?"... It's been mostly downhill since then. F**k Hide and Seek, right in its cigarette burns. It's even worse when they announce it ahead of time... "With an ending that will shock you to the core!"

I love me a good 180 on my expectations (and there were a few that did it right, example= Fincher), but it's getting a bit harder to do that after seeing a few thousand flicks.
post #14 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8
I love me a good 180 on my expectations (and there were a few that did it right, example= Fincher), but it's getting a bit harder to do that after seeing a few thousand flicks.
And horror's not the only genre to fall prey to this one; my wife and I love to spot the real murderer in mystery thrillers, too. I can't BELIEVE how much better at it than me she is.

100th Post! Hoo-AGHHH!
post #15 of 46
B.A.D.F-The Brother Always Dies First.
post #16 of 46
The one that's actually irritating me most right now is the medicine-cabinet scare... While doing her nightly ablutions, heroine innocently opens her mirror/medicine-cabinet and you just know that when she closes it, there'll be some creepy guy standing in the reflection not doing anything, giving her ample time to notice him, scream and duck that first swing of the knife.

I expect it so regularly now that even if the heroine in a fluffy romantic comedy goes and opens her medicine cabinet to grab some toothpaste, I scream "Holy Shit, somebody's gonna try murder Meg Ryan!"
post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarant
The one that's actually irritating me most right now is the medicine-cabinet scare... While doing her nightly ablutions, heroine innocently opens her mirror/medicine-cabinet and you just know that when she closes it, there'll be some creepy guy standing in the reflection not doing anything, giving her ample time to notice him, scream and duck that first swing of the knife.

I expect it so regularly now that even if the heroine in a fluffy romantic comedy goes and opens her medicine cabinet to grab some toothpaste, I scream "Holy Shit, somebody's gonna try murder Meg Ryan!"
I've also seen the fridge-door variation of this.

Let's not forget the flashlight batteries going dead cliche and the nightmare cliche (something really freaky/deadly happens, then the heroine/hero wakes up screaming in a cold sweat). Sometimes they double or triple up the nightmare cliche.
post #18 of 46
Say what you will about the majority of the film but the way Gore Verbinski worked the opening scene for The Ring is fucking awesome, constantly setting up the sorts of shots and scenarios where you're constantly expecting the jump scares we've been programmed into predicting for years, only they don't come, making the tension increase as you wonder which setup is actually going to pay off with the jump scare, it's a great bit of mounting apprehension. Who'd have thought a minute of quietly getting shit in kitchen cupboards would be so dramatic?
post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce
Fake Cat Scare!!!!

Who keeps locking the kitty in the linen closet, anyway?
I ... have ... hated ... this ... one ... since ... the ... f**king ... '70s!!!

Talk about an overused cliche. It's been done to death for decades now & yet, it keeps showing up in genre fare with mindnumbing repetition! One would think that today's screenwriters & directors would be ashamed to use it ever again. But no, they just keep trotting it out to illicit a cheap "jump" out of their audiances ...
post #20 of 46
Another one that I absolutely hate, hate, hate if the faux-demise of the creature-killer-bad guy, where the chief protagonist of the film ( it's just as often used or I should say, ABUSED in suspense films, crime dramas & action films these days as it is in horror pictures ... ) shoots, stabs or bludgeons said creature-killer-bad guy supposedly to death whereupon they then automatically throw down their weapon & relax. Usually to some accompanying soothing music as they, of course, turn their backs on the "corpse" leaving themselves exposed to danger when said "corpse" springs back to life or consciousness or whatever & attacks them.

DAMN, just once I'd like to see the protagonist make ABSOLUTELY 100% certain that whatever/whoever they just killed is, indeed, D-E-A-D. You know what I mean?
Hell, if something or someone's trying to take your life, don't just kill it ...
OVERkill it!
post #21 of 46
We can blame Tobe Hooper for that contribution to film cliche. Chainsaw has Marilyn falling down more than a drunken Kennedy, but you know what? It works, everytime I watch the last act, I get wicked nervous and scream, get up, bitch! RUN!

Chainsaw pretty much invented everything appealing about the Maniac-on-the-loose films, everything else is a pretender.

Black Christmas should be on the list too. I don't recall any of the girls doing anything too terribly stupid like falling down or going outside in the black of night in their underwear while wearing a bullseye on their chest.
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe kurtz
I ... have ... hated ... this ... one ... since ... the ... f**king ... '70s!!!

Talk about an overused cliche. It's been done to death for decades now & yet, it keeps showing up in genre fare with mindnumbing repetition! One would think that today's screenwriters & directors would be ashamed to use it ever again. But no, they just keep trotting it out to illicit a cheap "jump" out of their audiances ...
And it always looks so fucking fake. The poor kitties always look like they've been thrown from a rooftop, you can see the fright in their eyes, yet when they go to a close-up, kitty is purring and happy as all shit.

Friday the 13th Part 2, right before Alice is offed, she gets the kitty scare and it looks like the poor beast is being hurled with a rope. Lets see this end forever. My kitty is prone to jump at me, but never from outside a window or closet.

Although, cheap scares are not all bad. The best one, probably ever is in JAWS, when Brody and Hooper investigate the sunken boat and the floating head falls out. That always gets me, maybe not a good example probably since it works soo good. It makes the threat of the shark all the more real and scary.
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Fordyce
Related to the car not starting, it also seems that horror and thriller movie people have more keys on their key ring than the damn high school janitor. Simplify, man.
This one I understand, a horror movie would be ruined with a car chase, but then again, they shouldn't even put the person in that place to begin with.
post #24 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
B.A.D.F-The Brother Always Dies First.
Perhaps it's the exception proving the rule, that when it's in the right hands and handled correctly, even a cliche can work, but the fact that the brother died 1st at the end of "Jeepers Creepers" was very effective indeed. I remember wondering to myself: "How the hell is she gonna get her brother back now?" It was truly a credit to that film that she COULDN'T. True tragedy amidst all the horror is a rare thing.
post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe kurtz
DAMN, just once I'd like to see the protagonist make ABSOLUTELY 100% certain that whatever/whoever they just killed is, indeed, D-E-A-D. You know what I mean?
Dare I mention "Scream"? Sidney puts one in the brain to make sure Skeet stays down.
post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
Perhaps it's the exception proving the rule, that when it's in the right hands and handled correctly, even a cliche can work, but the fact that the brother died 1st at the end of "Jeepers Creepers" was very effective indeed. I remember wondering to myself: "How the hell is she gonna get her brother back now?" It was truly a credit to that film that she COULDN'T. True tragedy amidst all the horror is a rare thing.
I think they were referring to the "Black Guy", not... nevermind.

Sarcasm, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe kurtz
DAMN, just once I'd like to see the protagonist make ABSOLUTELY 100% certain that whatever/whoever they just killed is, indeed, D-E-A-D. You know what I mean?
Feast had a great "overkill" when Tuffy smashes the creature's teeth out with the butt of the gun and rams her fist down its throat.
post #27 of 46
Thread Starter 
Ramming one's fist down a creature's throat is kind of risky, even w/o teeth, isn't it?
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
Perhaps it's the exception proving the rule, that when it's in the right hands and handled correctly, even a cliche can work, but the fact that the brother died 1st at the end of "Jeepers Creepers" was very effective indeed. I remember wondering to myself: "How the hell is she gonna get her brother back now?" It was truly a credit to that film that she COULDN'T. True tragedy amidst all the horror is a rare thing.
I'm presuming by "Brother", Rath was actually referring to someone of African persuasion. I could be wrong though.
post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
Ramming one's fist down a creature's throat is kind of risky, even w/o teeth, isn't it?
Most probably.

Going back to Jeepers Creepers, I loved the moment when the sister (uh, the white one) continues to run back and forth over the Creeper.
post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by IggytheBorg
Ramming one's fist down a creature's throat is kind of risky, even w/o teeth, isn't it?
Character's name is "Tuffy". She came by it honest, I guess.
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormin
Say what you will about the majority of the film but the way Gore Verbinski worked the opening scene for The Ring is fucking awesome, constantly setting up the sorts of shots and scenarios where you're constantly expecting the jump scares we've been programmed into predicting for years, only they don't come, making the tension increase as you wonder which setup is actually going to pay off with the jump scare, it's a great bit of mounting apprehension. Who'd have thought a minute of quietly getting shit in kitchen cupboards would be so dramatic?
Great example!! That's exactly what I was thinking of while reading this thread. Verbinski did a great job of setting up scares in that movie, which is one of the reasons why it was so successful.

How about this? We know jump scares are cheap, but why doesn't anyone ever make a scene with successive jump scares back to back. Some scenes are crafted nicely, and then ruined by a cheap jump scare. What if you had like four or five in a row? I think that would be neat for a change. Has any movie ever done this?
post #32 of 46
Jump scares always work best when the audience is at ease, like say= after a funny line of dialogue or a false alarm.

Tougher to do if the audience was just freaked out? Maybe?
post #33 of 46
Thread Starter 
It would also be hard to pull of for the timing of a jump scare; you do have to set the audience up w/ a lull before springing the jump scare on them. Doing 4 or 5 in a row would be hard for that reason. That being said, I think the film that comes closest to pulling this off may be "Poltergeist"; the scene where the dead bodies start rising to the surface & popping out of their caskets to fall all over the daughter probably hasa couple right in a row. Other than that, I can't think of any off the top of my head.
post #34 of 46
Another movie behavior that irks me is the fact that not one person in the whole of cinema has ever checked their backseat upon entering their vehicle. Maybe because I'm a big puss who is scared of the dark, but when I open up my front door and the light comes on, I always give a perfunctory glance to the back seat. Do I expect something to be there? Not at all. Am I glad I checked? Fuck yeah.

This is one that crosses genre boundaries, though, can't just blame the horror movie for this.
post #35 of 46

Black Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Zod

Black Christmas should be on the list too. I don't recall any of the girls doing anything too terribly stupid like falling down or going outside in the black of night in their underwear while wearing a bullseye on their chest.
Saw Black Christmas the other day, not as bad as i thought it would be but it really did seem to have the Horror Cliche check list handy.
It had the 'is the cheating ex boyfriend really the killer' in there along with the 'oh the dark room seems empty but actually isnt' scene, the car not starting as wa earlier mentioned, along with that old classic 'lets all stay together but then all just split up anyway' scene.

I understand the point earlier about the rotation of generation but its still always good to see a film maker try and create tension rather than churn out the old samey samey 'scares'
post #36 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarant
The one that's actually irritating me most right now is the medicine-cabinet scare... While doing her nightly ablutions, heroine innocently opens her mirror/medicine-cabinet and you just know that when she closes it, there'll be some creepy guy standing in the reflection. . .
I have to grudgingly admit that on further review, this was done very well at the end of "Candyman." But his appearing in mirrors was his Schtick (and later Helen's) so I'm not sire this quite counts the same way Jason appearing there would.
post #37 of 46
They fall because they are the inferior gender... duh?
post #38 of 46
If I had to pick a cliche, and I guess it's a recent one, I would say having a character remark upon the cliches of horror films. "If this was a horror film then...." I especially dislike this, when the film itself is nothing but these remarked upon cliches. You know what you just told me director? You told me you are fully aware of horror cliches, and you just went ahead and did them anyway. You lazy motherfucker.

At the very least there exists within the script a list of cliches, so someone somewhere has to read them, and you have to assume they realise the script they hold in their hands posesses them. You'd think someone might offer up the idea to, you know, flip them on their head, play with expectations.

And, damn you Bloody Murder 2 creator, Tiffany Shepis is too good for that movie....
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Williams
At the risk of stating the obvious, instead of ranting, why don't you go out and find better films to watch?
Or if you have to rant, at least write a book about this shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormin
Say what you will about the majority of the film but the way Gore Verbinski worked the opening scene for The Ring is fucking awesome, constantly setting up the sorts of shots and scenarios where you're constantly expecting the jump scares we've been programmed into predicting for years, only they don't come, making the tension increase as you wonder which setup is actually going to pay off with the jump scare, it's a great bit of mounting apprehension.
I remember thinking Suspiria and Tenebre had a lot of shots like that, but it's been years since I've seen either. Am I misremembering?
post #40 of 46
Suspiria's one of my favorite horror films of all time because it's genuinely frightening, and with little to no jump scares (I only saw it once a couple years back, don't remember all the details exactly). The reason it's great is because it's totally unflinching, it just mounts tension with slow, eerie shots that don't cut away and the music just builds and builds and the images intensify and intensify without turning away. Unlike most horror films where it's audience lulled-then JUMPED AT!, Suspiria just lets us see completely unsettling images and doesn't let us look away, and just keeps cranking the bejeesus level up notch after notch.
post #41 of 46
Some people have claimed that makes Suspiria less frightening, which irritated me.
post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Allen
How about this? We know jump scares are cheap, but why doesn't anyone ever make a scene with successive jump scares back to back. Some scenes are crafted nicely, and then ruined by a cheap jump scare. What if you had like four or five in a row? I think that would be neat for a change. Has any movie ever done this?
From what I can remember, "Event Horizon" did it quite successfuly. It was kind of cool for me, because that movie wasn't about jump-scares at all, but they heap them on in the beginning when the crew is searching the abandoned ship. They have everything except a cat wearing a space-suit jumping out at them. Then when the Real horror starts, it's of a completely different more psychological nature.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarant
From what I can remember, "Event Horizon" did it quite successfuly. It was kind of cool for me, because that movie wasn't about jump-scares at all, but they heap them on in the beginning when the crew is searching the abandoned ship. They have everything except a cat wearing a space-suit jumping out at them. Then when the Real horror starts, it's of a completely different more psychological nature.
The Grudge (original Japanese) had nothing but jump scares back to back, if I remeber right.
post #44 of 46
Thread Starter 
Just saw "See No Evil" over the weekend, and I thought of another cliche I'm coming to loathe.

****SPOILER ALERT!*****

This film's new enough that many may not have seen it, so I felt obligated to say that, but there's the scene where the supposedly friendly old lady comes into the room where Kane's keeping the torture cage that he's got one of the heroines in, planning whatever unspeakable nastiness he's got in mind. THE SECOND SHE WALKED IN, I knew. I just KNEW; She's his psychotic, crazy Christian mother that tortured him as a child. Ever since "Friday the 13th: Part II" we've been seeing this one. Who on this site watched this film and din't see that waltzing down Braodway? Fuckin' hacks. I was with them up to that point. But they just had to go ruin it w/ a cliche, didn't they?
post #45 of 46
And to clarify my post from like two months ago, yeah, I was talking about the token black character always being the first one to go when the fit hits the sham--hence "B.A.D.F."
post #46 of 46
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I figured that one out. But, in "See No Evil", the brother was NOT the one that dies 1st; he was, in fact, one of the last to die.
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