The Crawl (Nick's script)

In a world where the news features death 24-7, and slasher flicks are passe, a world where children open fire on classmates and civil wars blanket the globe, a world where Cancer and Aids are killing millions and death is a welcome release, I say bring on the the grim disturbing visions.

I dunno, I like to be able to read/view things that disturb me, that make me think, that leave me wondering. That to me is sometimes the purpose of film.

American Beauty disturbed me, and I LIKED IT. Fight Club was grim and gritty, AWESOME.

Grimness and gore does not a picture make but in a world where so much of that type of stuff abounds in reality, I welcome it to the silver screen. Because after all, motion pictures and literature are nothing if not an extension of ourselves and our surroundings.

Well, maybe I just need an example of how GRIM/DISTURBING it is.

Vince--not a scientologist since 1977

[This message has been edited by chenzzo (edited 05-31-2000).]

I would have to know more about it, but a good key is some of the elements that were used in older films, where they DIDN'T show the gore. Harlan Ellison has an essay in the first Edgeworks book where he tells of walking out of 'The Omen', disgusted at its shoddy filmmaking and use of gore as a plot device. Then he tells of an old black & white film, where the camera follows someone running up the street of a small village, something obviously chasing him. The tension builds, builds, then the characer reaches a door. There is a large thud and a scream that cuts off into a gurgle, and a slow seep of blood comes from beneath the door into the house. It's called 'Night of the Jaguar' or some such, and it probably wasn't all that good, but I can see his point.

One of the most frightening movies I have ever seen relied on very little gore, and was semi-realistic to boot, and that was the Exorcist III.

Once again, while trying to be helpful I don't really know all that well what you are looking for. What I CAN say is this: There needs to be an upshot. Dan Simmons, who was either nominated or actually DID win the WFA for his novel 'Song of Kali' really turned me off with that same novel. An American in India, with his wife and infant, is targeted by a cult, their belief being that the sacrifice of his child will bring back their dark god Kali. They're wrong, of course, but that doesn't stop them from killing the kid, the wife going nuts and (I think, I may be wrong) killing herself, and the man going back to America hollowed out and defeated. And then the book ends. Okay, so where was my fucking motivation to read that story?! I might as well have just fucking memorized the Diary of Anne Frank, or the Bell Jar!

See what I mean? On some level, even in their death, the good guys have to win. Simple as that. For instance, 'Salem's Lot'. All is lost, right up until the last page. And then all of a sudden it's beautiful.

Please, tell me if I have been useful.

Yes. Keep it like it is. Don't tone down ANYTHING. I have yet to read it, but we've already written 2 scripts together so I know it's not the usual.

At this point, do not give in... keep everything pure and unfiltered. If a studio ends up biting but requests some changes, THEN you should consider it.

We need MORE scripts (movies) with balls, not less.

Grendel, it's been a good while since I read "Song of Kali" but I do remember it ending with an upshot. His wife does not commit suicide, they return to America after the death of their child and do go through a rough time of trying to stay together, and at one point the book's hero does return to Calcutta with the intentions of killing those in the Kali cult, but there in the airport he realizes that that is in fact exactly what the cult and Kali herself want him to do, take vengance and kill, he stops himself and returns home, where he and his wife go on to have another child and everything ends in a rather subdued but nonetheless they lived happily ever after.

Their child was sacrificed by the cult of Kali. Therefore, they DO NOT live happily ever after. At no point after which your child is sacrificed to an Indian Blood God do you live happily ever after.

Upshot my ass.

Ok, Nick, I missed where your script was (sue me, I've been VERY busy RL, I'm lucky to be able to scan the site and hit the boards briefly) Point me in the right direction, and I'll look at it when I get back from the convention next week?
You and I share similar views on horror should be horrorfying. (While my story "The Winds of Limbo Roar is more twilight zone than horror, I did try to give people chills with the last paragraph. "The Last Unknindness of Ravens" is over the top in the realm of psychological horror, but tests of the game based off the in-rewrite story are going exceedingly well...if anyone is hitting A-kon, stop by & play it) I'll try to toss Hastur at it as well.

Can't really say without reading it, Nick...perhaps if you brought a copy on Saturday? (hint, hint)

I said it was a subdued happily ever after. The characters in Simmons novel went through without a doubt the worst thing that could happen to parents, the aubduction and murder of their child, and were able to pick themselves up after such a terrible ordeal and not only survive and move on together but begin another family. It may not look like it at first viewing, but that is most definately a positive and an upshot.

To continue "off-topic": if anyone has paid any attention to my posts (and you're seriously ill if you do), I am a huge Simmons fan. Song of Kali did win the WFA, and is a terrific novel. I sent an extra copy of it to the Nickster himself some months ago. The things that occur in the book are indeed "real world horror" and the most terrifying thing a parent could face. It has been a long time since I've read the book myself, so I don't recall specifics -- but the book is no darker than Se7en -- a film with absolutely no uplift whatsoever.

Back on-topic: Nick, stand by your vision. Trust your instincts. It may be a tough sell (if that's your fear), but would you rather sell a script that is tamed by your expectation of marketability? Me, I'd rather see you become a hot commodity based upon the current script(s) in Hollywood, and then get this script produced the way you envision it.

Your optimistic outlook is uplifting, Shank, and I don't mean to belittle it. However, if anyone sacrificed my child to Kali, revenge would not begin to cover it. I would kill any and all associated with Kali, deface all monuments carved to Kali, and unmake Kali from human memory. I would NOT have a moral dilemna as to whether this is something that Kali "wants" or not. It would be about what I want. And what I would want is streets running red and the sound of mourning women.

Blofeld would help me.

(Actually, Blo, you should be helping me NOW, since you're the Simmons fanatic around here, dammit!)

Consider it done. The streets are already running red. Although I didn't find Kali, or Kali's minions anywhere. Too bad. Innocents slaughtered. Oh well...

Denver is used to it.

Blofeld, irreverence be thy name...

nick,

i remember a time when i was little when i couldn't watch horror movies of any sort because i was too scared. whether it was the hackneyed slasher in the woods or the bogeyman under the bed, i didn't want to know fear at any level. but as i've matured and been saturated with violence and horrific imagery in real life and mass media, i've come to find disturbing ideas and images in stories and movies to be oddly illuminating.

i don't like to be scared; maybe it's the deep biological fight-or-flight imperative or the fact that i'm a big wuss, but it's true. but i'd take a chance on something entertaining, intelligent, intense AND creepy. i'd watch and rewatch something on the level of silence of the lambs, seven or jacob's ladder. write the best script you can and make it true despite being fiction. you'll create an audience that didn't know they would be your audience.

besides, you'll always have at least a few tickets sold in advance from the sewer chewers.

/willko.

I always loved that unstoppable bad guy thing. The Terminator, Freddy, Jason, Michale Myers...All bad guys who could not be stopped, no matter what. It's an old plot device, but it's rarely used properly.

I'm also a freak for the "jump-outta-yer-seat" scares. Like Scream and those guys. Also used improperly often. They gotta have a frickin point to it. Nothin cheap and stupid.

Nick, it was not the gore or the "grimness" (if that is a word) that bothered me, but I will send you a letter about what did. I wasn't able to put my finger on what bothered me about it before (other than what was intended to do so), but I think I have it. More to follow in the letter.

Dane

How about a "where do we find it to read it?" to come? :}

Nick is a sensible bunny that way. Only way to do it. Of course, Coyote has stories up on the web, but those are psuedo-protected. Although, if someone were to make a movie from one it WOULD be difficult to prosecute them and win money for it...

And that's why I register everything at www.patentcafe.com

Every single damn good idea that I have...

So ... that's one thing registered, right?

Uhhh, you're shooting a little high there, bro...

Actually, my one story on Mind's Eye (a division of Alexandria Digital Lit) is fully copyrighted. It's not the same as just posting your work on the web...it was bought, etc, just the same as a magazine, only the editor of said publication is very netsavy and will talk to you via email ;}
It's really too bad I didn't get my escape-death-by-getting-off-plane-and-death-starts-hunting-you story finished before Final Destination was filmed. It was damn close in concept, save age & who was the psychic (in my story, the guy who knew the plane was going down got on anyways. He knew better than to two-time death). I could be rolling in at least a thousand dollars, now.


So, ummm....the question becomes, how are we supposed to give you our opinion of it on this board if we can't read it?
Of course, if the only question was "do we go after things MEANT to be disturbing," my Harlan Ellison & Tim Powers collection would be rattling their slipcovers if I said no. But it seemed like you were asking for ideas of how your script should proceed, more distrurbing or less...and I can't say without having read it.


[This message has been edited by Coyote (edited 06-01-2000).]

Actually, I believe Nick was asking a general question:

"how many of you out there care about horror and care if there's something out there that is MEANT to be disturbing?"

Nick never intended to open his baby up for public scrutiny.

Now opening up a baby for public scrutiny sounds like a really COOL idea for a horror movie.

WE care. Disturb us. It's so rare that anyone bothers to construct a truly frightening ANYTHING because it must have stars, special effects, and advertising, and. of course, be accepted in the mainstream to get all that cash back. Not to mention the complete FEAR of releasing a film unrated so that it's allowed to disturb.

For that reason alone, you have to at least RESPECT "The Blair Witch Project." Imagine if TBWP had never gone mainstream, seeing it with only what little you knew: a website, a few rumors, and things whispered by people who haven't seen it but are making up stuff anyway. Imagine seeing it fo the first time on a stormy night, in a dark room with just a few close friends, watching the mockumentary first and then seeing the movie.

The Undead are all about The Brothers Grimm.

I have no respect for "The Blair Witch Project" because even if there had been little hype and less information, it still would have been a shitty film.

I read Nick's still-in-progress script yesterday...


It's good!

I don't believe it's too "grim" or "dark" at all. It harkens to the days of horror where the emphasis was on the freaky stuff that haunts you and gives you nightmares, not the cheap gimmicks that currently run throughout the genre.

Think EXORCIST...think HELLRAISER... Sewer style.

Give. Now.

Nick, dont change anything. We live in politically correct world. What we need is cutting edge imagination. This is what i look for, something that stands out from the rest, the normal and the bland - something that hasnt been filtered so it consummable by the general masses.

Think about it, when something different hits the cinemas, it usually captures the imaginations of the moviegoers..think Matrix..to the general populace, that was something different and exciting but we know it has traditions in anime and other movies but because something like that has not been seen recently, it was gobbled like that last tub of ice cream in the freezer. Being brave to be on the outside is the key. arouse their senses. tease them with new sights. sucker punch with new scares.

Has anyone seen Peter Jackson's Dead Alive...that schlock horror done with some wit. Probably the goriest movie i've ever seen but it was entertaining. Gore for gore sake and t was great. It was different and its infamous now. and Pete has gone on to direct Lord of the rings...vision and individuality...instinct. Key elements.

I havent read your script, so i wont be able to make an educated guess about it but i can see that u are inspired and that u have a vision to make this go thru. so dont let anyone stand in your way. Go with your instincts. You love horror movies and this gives u an added perspective on how to about it. Just dont water anything down yet. Transition from script to movie is an evolving phase. Sometimes, what u may think that may not work paper works brilliantly onscreen and vice versa.

There will be whole lots of different processes once it is in development. In any case...just go with it nick. We'll support ya.

and grendel, i loved Exorcist III as well.i thought i was the only one. That scene with the nurse in the corridor..and the camera suddenly surges forward..cool.

I read the initial teaser and it was fabulous. I felt before reading the early review that it was kind of a Tales from the crypt type story which the review supported.

Best wishes on bringing this into production and congratulations on the offer.

Got get em Nick.

I recently sent out a short horror story.

I got rejected by the editor, but I will not give up until I get this baby published.

Anyway, don't let anyone bash your story. Fight until your creative vision is realized.

Also, be weary of plagarism. Any story that I send out, I have sent to the Copyright Office. Its a small fee, but if your works are unpublished you can package them all up together and save money while covering your butt.

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I'm gonna punch your momma in the mouth.

Congrats, Nick.

"I got rejected by the editor, but I will not give up until I get this baby published."

This is the right attitude. You can tell a writer by the scars on his forehead.

BTW, for all you writers out there trying to break in: If you're ever at a convention, and there's an author there by the name of Pat Elrod, pick up her $2 diskette "The Handy-Dandy-How-ToBe-A-Writer Kit, Compiled by PN Elrod." Alot of really good info in there, from many experts in the field, and it doesn't pull any punches.
(The day Pat pulls a punch is the day the world's been taken over by pod people.)

Well said Poxy...

It's about the ebiegeebies, the willies, the 'what if', the creeped out feeling that you have no control over what's coming next...

[This message has been edited by kiki37 (edited 08-29-2001).]

thanks Coyote.
If I do I will remember.

I'm just breaking into the writing business, and know that I am going to take a lot of punches and rejections.

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I'm gonna punch your momma in the mouth.