PAYBACK:Director's Cut

This is one of the few Director's cuts that I think will be totally distinguished from the theatrical cut. I pretty much love the theatrical version, but have always wondered just how much badass the Helgeland cut would have been. Apparently there is some kind of shoot-out in a train station (?) that sees Porter off at the close...?

Can't wait. This is a cool film that looks to only get cooler.

Which leads me to this: Mel Gibson. In the last ten years, he's given a handful of fantastic performances, but I just can't get around to liking or even respecting him. Laugh all you want, but Payback, What Women Want and especially Signs are pretty awesome central performances, regardless of what you think of the films. He can also direct pretty well, (Braveheart, while a load of hooey, was extremely well made, as is Apocalypto from what I can tell) but he seems to be a complete mess personally. His ascension to greatness and simultaneous fall from grace is rivalled only by Mr Cruise.

What is the consensus on Gibson around here?

I like him. I also like Michael Richards and Andrew Dice Clay.

I love this movie but the posters/box art for it have always been pretty bad. It definitely has some style and grittiness in how it was shot and yet they're just going with Mel Gibson pointing a gun for this.

Plus, the original said something like, "Get Ready To Root For the Bad Guy."

Still, anyone who doesn't like Gregg Henry is a communist.

One of the more interesting cases of a Director's Cut. I never knew this had been altered in any way.

I'll be looking forward to this, as well. I like the theatrical cut a lot, but I know there were many changes afoot.

I just watched "Maverick" again this past weekend, and forgot how much I liked Gibson in that movie. I also enjoyed "Payback", and am looking forward to seeing what this new cut is all about.

I wonder if Kris Kristofferson will appear in the Director's Cut. Apparently (according to IMDB) Kristofferson's scenes were created after Helgeland left the project.

Anybody got a link to the other changes we can anticipate? Wikipedia doesn't have much.

From what little I've gathered, all of the Kristofferson's scenes are cut. Though that makes me wonder about William Devane's last scene in the movie.

This should be one of the more interesting Directors Cuts. Brian was pulled off the film and Gibson and the studio reshot some stuff (the mentioned above Kristofferson scenes) and then reedited the film.

If memory serves it had to do with the test screenings.

I can't really imagine the film without Kristofferson's character. It's going to be a completely different film. Is the kidnapping plot also not in, or is the kid another gangster's son?

Don't hold me to it, but I think all the stuff with the kid and the boxing match is gone as well.

Hope there's more David Paymer.

I hope there's more Gregg Henry!

I'm looking forward to this flick, since I saw it back in the theater in '99. I still haven't gotten around to picking up the dvd of the theatrical cut, so I probably should before they stop making it, and start mass producing this cut. Well at least it's not just another movie that's unrated, and adds 2 seconds of non-mpaa screened footage.

Instead of Kristofferson, I think we're going to get the voice of Angie Dickinson.

There was a review of this a few months ago over at AICN. This is going to be hard to believe, but Harry went apeshit for it. From what I remember, and Moltisanti already pointed out, the Kristofferson subplot is gone. All I remember from the review is the typical hyperbole, but he said it was much closer to a Parker story, way leaner and meaner, than the film that was released.

EDIT: Sorry, somebody already pointed out the AICN stuff.

Devane's last scene happens while Kristoferson is on speakerphone with him. I'm guessing, but they might've just swapped his voice here with Angie Dickinson's.

(EDIT: Shit! Sorry.)

Most of the third act is completely different. Curious as hell for this. Really liked a lot of the "original" reelase.

Wow, this sounds interesting. I was rather cold to this one initially, but now my ears are perked. Looking forward to it.

For a scene-by-scene breakdown of the director's cut, as well as POINT BLANK comparisons and the faithfulness to Stark/Westlake's original novel, read Mike White's excellent article here:

http://www.impossiblefunky.com/archi....asp?IshNum=11

I have a horrible-looking fourth or fifth generation dupe of the director's cut on VHS. It is the stronger version, and makes inspired use of The Temptations' "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" and several cues from Lalo Schifrin's DIRTY HARRY score.

Love Payback. Very re-watchable IMO. Can't wait to see this version after hearing about it for years.

Collier, thanks for the link to the director's cut info.
Can't wait to see it.

Groovy.

That's not Mike White of The Good Girl and School of Rock fame is it?

Thanks for the comprehensive article, Collier.

I'd heard several years ago about this (perhaps it was here on the MBs), but had totally forgotten about it until I started perusing this thread.

The theatrical cut is one of the first DVDs I purchased for my collection and while I haven't it watched it recently, it stands tall as one of the last best Mel Gibson performances in my book.

I am really interested in seeing how Helgeland's cut turns out, though does anyone know if this new DVD will just how his cut or both versions the film on it?

Just his cut, so hold on to your DVD.

Also, this upcoming version will feature a new score created by Scott Stambler, replacing Chris Boardman's (which I thought was horrible). Read on:

http://www.editorsguild.com/v2/magaz..._article04.htm

What's up with your lack of knowledge of S&M?

I can't wait to pick this cut of the film up. I loved the original cut, altho the second half is weaker than the first. Most of what I've read says that Helgeland's version is much closer to the original Richard Stark novel, THE HUNTER, including the finale at the train station. Also, I heard the new release is going to be called PAYBACK: STRAIGHT UP. Anybody else heard that?

Check.

I am in delray beach florida and I went to target, walmart and circuity city and did not see this anywhere. Fucking sucks. I was looking forward to watching this tonite.

fucking bullshit

picked it up from circuit city earlier today.

I couldnt find it in the new release section, so i had to ask someone. They went in the back, they were back there for a good 10 min before he came out with two other employees. naturally they look again in the new release section. They finally found some other guy and he took us to some random place next to a computer in the cd section and there was five copies of it on some little stand .

They stated those five copies were all they got.

Its a busy store too, so i was suprised to find so little copies

so the dvd is available, ask and look EVERYWHERE

Yeah, I just checked the online stock status for near Delray Beach where PloKoon couldn't find it and apparently the Boynton Beach Best Buy has them in stock. I don't know if he went to the Boca Raton one (they didn't have any) or if he didn't ask a person to find it for him or what.

Since it's not a high profile release, it's always a little trickier to find.

I think I'm going to pick up the Blu-ray version from the Blockbuster by my house after work today.

Picked this up last night and gave it a watch. Big spoilers for those who don't want to know:

Overall, a much more confident movie than the 99 theatrical cut, but I did kinda miss the bleached-out/mono chromatic look the theatrical cut had. Gave the movie a lot of style. Also, I was surprised to see that some of the "cooler" moments in the theatrical cut were created by Gibson (like Porter blowing up the car full of goons with his cigarette).

Maria Bello has a much more minor role in this one, she's more of a noir-era dame than a hooker with a heart of gold. The subplot with Liu is also greatly reduced, and she doesn't get her final smack in the face from Porter this time.

I must say, though, that Kristofferson's scenes in the theatrical cut made for a more interesting villain than Angie Dickinson sounding like a hysterical, Jewish Kathleen Turner over a couple of loudspeakers. I get not wanting to show Bowsen, but for Christ's sake, her line readings are awful.

The biggest changes come in the final act of the movie. There is no kidnapping subplot, and the climax happens almost out of nowhere (which, from the way it's presented, is the point). And there's one bit towards the end that made the movie for me--the shot of Porter slumped against a lamppost, hearing all the voices flash back through his head, bookending the beginning of the movie. Great scene.

I thought Payback '99 was a solid, gritty little revenge movie, and it still is. But Payback: Straight Up is a more rounded effort, and movie with some real bite, and one more reason why I wish Helgeland would direct more often (and when he does, it's not on crap like The Order.)

such a great movie, cant wait to see this version.

I went to Best Buy and they had it but only on hd dvd. They also had it a combo pack on regular dvd... eh...

this thing is hard to find

My local CC and Costco didn't carry it either, but I managed to pick up a copy at Best Buy (strangely, not placed out front w/ the rest of the New Releases). I saw about 5 copies laid out next to the TV sets section. Very little fanfare.

Really enjoyed this version, btw. Much tighter, no nonsense, overall very lean and satisfying. Loved the scene where he suddenly smacks Deborah Kara Unger over the head after flipping over the kitchen table. Will have to check out the featurettes and commentary later this weekend.

Greg, IIRC it was one of the Outfit goons ("fatboy") that clocked Pearl after kidnapping Porter to be tortured in the theatrical version. Also, wasn't the voice of Bronson actually Sally Kellerman (as listed in the opening credits)?

In my VHS dupe it's definitely Angie's voice. Her casting was intended as a nod to the first film based on The Hunter, POINT BLANK, which featured Angie in what is essentially the Maria Bello role.

But strangely enough, my dupe doesn't have the fight between Gibson and Unger in the kitchen. I do remember clips of it in the teaser trailer.

Agreed that the train station sequence works better, though I do miss the scene in the original cut where Gibson gets his toes bashed in. Overall this new cut is an improvement. It is indeed leaner, losing Kristofferson and his son really helps the end play out smoother. Looking forward to checking out the features on how this cut finally got the go ahead.

There's a decent interview with Donald Westlake where he chats about the origins of Parker, as well as previous actors to assume the role. I would've liked to hear his opinion of the more obscure Stark adaptations, like MISE EN SAC (a.k.a. PILLAGED!), and THE SPLIT, but there ya go. He does talk about his fondness for THE OUTFIT.

And that is Sally Kellerman doing the voice of Bronson in this new version of PAYBACK (Helgeland doesn't even mention Dickinson in the commentary). Kellerman does a much stronger reading of the character, imo.

I like both versions. I think I like the director's cut better because they cut out the son and the part where Porter tears through a car seat. Plus the dog stays dead.

Yeah - I enjoy both versions. Definitely am glad they gave this a chance. Finally a director's cut dvd worthy of the title.

I like both versions. But I prefer the Theatrical version.

The Train station scene is pretty badass though.

The feature on how the director's cut was put together was pretty interesting and enhanced by the fact that Gibson had his crazy APOCALYPTO beard during his interview.

Deborah Kara Unger seems like she'd be a lot of "fun."

Funny you should mention Unger. While watching this new edition of PAYBACK I was reminded of how much work she was getting in the late 90s/early 00s, and of how strong an actress she can be. Her performance in David Cronenberg's CRASH was probably the finest I saw that year. Wrenching, intense stuff.

Interesting that the few articles I can find on the theatrical release make it sound like the studio didn't like the original cut: I had read somewhere (long ago) that Gibson demanded the changes.

Good god, I built this one up. I was hoping it would be a huge improvement. Instead, there's just stuff I like in both versions. Still remains just an OK flick in my book. Gregg Henry is so good in it. Anyway, maybe the extras will grow my love.

My favorite scene is still the one with Coburn. "That's just mean man" it makes me smile everytime. The delivery of the line is just so perfect.