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The Last of the Mohicans

post #1 of 66
1/25/07 at 10:25pm
Thread Starter 
Why is a film that is almost 15 years old and won the oscar for best sound not out in a better version on DVD? The DTS version is decent but the sound fades in parts and the colors are off in places. I really enjoy this movie it's one of my favorties, you would think Michael Mann would like to see it released in a better version also. Especially to fix the sound for a movie that won the Oscar for best sound!! Just my thoughts though.
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post #2 of 66
1/25/07 at 10:52pm
Great avatar. Who is that?
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post #3 of 66
1/25/07 at 11:05pm
The film needs a special edition badly.
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post #4 of 66
1/26/07 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by donde
Great avatar. Who is that?
Does anybody know why I randomly cannot see any avatars on these boards (like right now) ?
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post #5 of 66
1/26/07 at 2:00am
I just got the film on dvd for Christmas, and it does need a special edition. At least a commentary by Mann, and aren't there a ton of scenes that were cut out of the movie? Aside from that, this movie is truly a masterpiece. It hasn't aged one bit.
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post #6 of 66
1/26/07 at 2:07am
This is one of Mann's movies that really clicked with me on a second viewing. Amazing music, fantastic scenery, and Wes Studi is just chilling.

I'd love to see Mann and Day-Lewis work together again.
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post #7 of 66
1/26/07 at 3:21am
Thread Starter 
Avatar is Carmen Electra!

Well the expanded edition DVD has the added stuff in it, but it has been so long I'm not sure what the differences are but I think they are fairly small changes. But this movie cries out for a special edition its such a great film.
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post #8 of 66
1/26/07 at 9:32pm
I love this movie, one of my all-time favorites, and yes, I'd love to see a better DVD. At this point I figure they'll wait for the new HD formats.
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post #9 of 66
1/27/07 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
Does anybody know why I randomly cannot see any avatars on these boards (like right now) ?
Check you have the Show Avatars option seclected in User CP -> Edit Options -> Thread Display Options. It should be selected, as that's the default.
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post #10 of 66
1/27/07 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel Williams
Check you have the Show Avatars option seclected in User CP -> Edit Options -> Thread Display Options. It should be selected, as that's the default.
Thanks, it worked. I just don't remember making the change in the first place.

Back to the thread, was the film a financial success?
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post #11 of 66
1/27/07 at 3:50pm
Thread Starter 
According to Box Office Mojo it was a budget of 40 mil and it made just over 75 mil at the box office. So it made its money back and then some, and since it came out in 1992 I'm sure its considered profitable by now. It seems to ahve a loyal following, and Mann is more popular now than in the past with his recent films, so this is definatly deserving. Now would be the time with the 15th anniversary of the film!
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post #12 of 66
1/27/07 at 4:01pm
It has one of the most memorable scores of any film of the 90s.
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post #13 of 66
1/27/07 at 4:12pm
agreed about the movie score. one of the best ever.

I also found it to be the one movie set during the 18th/19th century where the warfare actually looked intriguing on film versus the boring idiotic strategies that were usually employed by the british back then.
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post #14 of 66
1/27/07 at 4:35pm
It took me awhile to like this film but when I was making my Michael Mann Appreciation Thread and I was re-watching all his movie I fell in love with it. It's definitely a very good movie and quite under rated. DDL is wicked and yeah, I agree with the score. I love that part of the score that plays at the end when they're walking along that cliff edge. Wickedness.
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post #15 of 66
1/27/07 at 5:53pm
Agree with all the praise of this movie. As far as historical epics go, this is my favorite, and the early '00s glut of such films would have been better off aping this rather than Gladiator (which I still like).

The score is, as noted, fantastic, and it has one of the best climaxes of any film I've ever seen.
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post #16 of 66
1/27/07 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
The score is, as noted, fantastic, and it has one of the best climaxes of any film I've ever seen.
I just love how the film never stops after they get to the indian village.
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post #17 of 66
1/27/07 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alexor
I just love how the film never stops after they get to the indian village.

I think it is in the same vein as Apocalypto - pretty much your typical actioner dressed in period clothing - but it is AMAZINGLY well-crafted. The film looks and sounds great and has terrific performances. It's all surface, but that isn't a crime last I looked.
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post #18 of 66
1/27/07 at 8:14pm
I'm starting to get a little annoyed at posts along the lines of "the direction and performances were great, and the production values were excellent, but other than that, it's nothing special." That just reeks of someone trying to be unimpressed with a movie.

Not that that's what you were doing, Chavez, but your post just reminded me of others. Particularly in the Children of Men thread, where, oddly, I sort of agree. I can't point to any particular weakness in the production, but it just didn't blow my mind and shoot to the top of my all-time favorites list the way it seemed to with others. Still, I'd never criticize a movie for only having excellent story, production, and performances. I don't know, maybe I've just seen too many genuinely bad movies.

Which is to say, I gues, that LOTM is not a typical actioner dressed in period clothing. It's an exceptional actioner dressed in period clothing.
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post #19 of 66
1/27/07 at 10:52pm
I love the director's cut which removed the Clannad song and replaced it with the score that I assume you're all professing to love during the finale. Aso, I love the dialogue at the end from Russell Means. An actioner in period clothing, maybe, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's what they manage to weave in amongst that action, and from a dialogue, performance, and thematic standpoint, I think mann does an incredible job. Its about a turning point on the American continent:

[last lines]
[Director's Expanded Edition]
Chingachgook: The frontier moves with the sun and pushes the Red Man of these wilderness forests in front of it until one day there will be nowhere left. Then our race will be no more, or be not us.
Hawkeye: That is my father's sadness talking.
Chingachgook: No, it is true. The frontier place is for people like my white son and his woman and their children. And one day there will be no more frontier. And men like you will go too, like the Mohicans. And new people will come, work, struggle. Some will make their life. But once, we were here.


I've just always found that to be a beautiful ending to the film.
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post #20 of 66
1/27/07 at 11:14pm
How the hell did the film end before they added those lines?
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post #21 of 66
1/28/07 at 4:20am
Rent the VHS and find out.

I agree with Stew (usually do about Mann) those last lines are awesome.

A film thats unique not just because of the setting but also because of the fairhandedness it deals with all its characters. Its amazing to me still after all these years that I still empathize with Magua even though he's a cold blooded murderer.

Also you feel the deaths in this film as I once said in the Collateral thread here it must be great to be an actor and die in a Michael Mann film. Still heartrenching to see Uncas fall off that cliff.
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post #22 of 66
1/28/07 at 5:34am
Thank you, Johnny. Fairhandedness is exactly the word I've been looking for to describe what separates this from other historical epics. Even though I sort of hate them, I still emphathize with Magua, Duncan, and Col. Munro.

I think that's what separates LOTM from other historical epics. While I may dissaprove of what these characters think and do, I still understand and sympathize with them and their motivations. But it doesn't feel like any concessions have been made to make it more palatable for a modern audience. The whole film just seems more, I don't know, honest, than most period pieces.
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post #23 of 66
1/28/07 at 6:18am
From what I understand Mann did extensive research on the book and the time period before making the film. He does have a tendency to do his research, after all. To me it's an extremely well-crafted world - believable, palpable, with no or att least very few anachronisms.

That's just one of the things I like about it.
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post #24 of 66
1/28/07 at 10:49am
It's important to note that LOTM was made before Mann was Michael Mann. By that I mean, he was a TV producer, whose most recent directorial efforts were made for TV. Because of that, Fox fought him along the way on this movie. His original cut was too long, so he was forced to hack it down. However I think the DC is perfect, and fixes the issues of the theatrical cut while adding a beautiful closing scene. Seriously, that exchange between Hawkeye and Chingachcook flies in ther face of the idea that this is "just an action movie" in moccasins.
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post #25 of 66
1/28/07 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
Still, I'd never criticize a movie for only having excellent story, production, and performances. I don't know, maybe I've just seen too many genuinely bad movies.

Which is to say, I gues, that LOTM is not a typical actioner dressed in period clothing. It's an exceptional actioner dressed in period clothing.
Fair enough, I would agree that maybe I phrased it badly, because I love LotM and it IS an exceptional, rather than typical, actioner in period clothing.
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post #26 of 66
1/29/07 at 5:40pm
Easily one of my favorite Mann films (and I love Mann). The last 15 minutes or so are pretty much perfect. I get goose bumps just thinking about it. I really can't think of anything I don't like about this movie. Also, how the fuck does Wes Studi not get more work? One of the all time great heavies. The speech he gives about cutting out the Grey Hair's heart is amazing and it's even better because he actually follows through with it.
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post #27 of 66
1/29/07 at 11:59pm
For all the strides minorities and other ethnicities have made in becoming credible, mainstream leads in the movies, Native Americans still pretty much just play Native Americans. Even Adam Beach, probably as dashing a Hollywood guy can be, still plays "Indian guy". Mann cast Studi in "Heat" and he was awesome, but by and large, he's still sort of been pigeonholed in that stereotype.
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post #28 of 66
1/30/07 at 12:19am
Mystery Men my friends, Mystery Men.
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post #29 of 66
1/30/07 at 12:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wood
Mystery Men my friends, Mystery Men.
Deep Rising as well.
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post #30 of 66
1/30/07 at 12:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
For all the strides minorities and other ethnicities have made in becoming credible, mainstream leads in the movies, Native Americans still pretty much just play Native Americans. Even Adam Beach, probably as dashing a Hollywood guy can be, still plays "Indian guy". Mann cast Studi in "Heat" and he was awesome, but by and large, he's still sort of been pigeonholed in that stereotype.
Well, it's step up from white people playing native americans. Or Boris Karloff.
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post #31 of 66
1/30/07 at 12:59am
Studi was entertaining in "Mystery Men", but then I saw him pop slumming it as an aging gangbanger in the Ving Rhames TV movie "Animal". Although I'm also remembering his turn in one of my all-time favorite B-movies, playing Sagat in "Street Fghter".
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post #32 of 66
1/30/07 at 1:04am
Not sure how large his role is but Studi is in the new Neeson/Brosnan western SERAPHIM FALLS. Actually it's a real good supporting cast in that one. Studi with a couple other HEAT alums Tom Noonan and Xander Berkely. Plus, Michael Wincott.

Too bad that movie has just been dumped in a few theaters. I suppose it'll mean a quicker DVD release.
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post #33 of 66
1/30/07 at 4:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
For all the strides minorities and other ethnicities have made in becoming credible, mainstream leads in the movies, Native Americans still pretty much just play Native Americans. Even Adam Beach, probably as dashing a Hollywood guy can be, still plays "Indian guy". Mann cast Studi in "Heat" and he was awesome, but by and large, he's still sort of been pigeonholed in that stereotype.

Actually Studi can play "Random Indian Guy" in both senses (native american or eastern).

That is fucking range!
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post #34 of 66
1/31/07 at 12:04am
All you Studi fans need to check out the Leaphorn/Chee mysteries that PBS did co-starring....Adam Beach.

Yes, they play Native Americans, but they're detective stories and they are very well done. Best Studi's ever been.
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post #35 of 66
2/1/07 at 12:06am
Wow, all this time I never knew Michael Mann directed Last of the Mohicans.

Though I heard that the difference between the film and book is that the book is actually boring.
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post #36 of 66
2/1/07 at 5:14am
I love Heat and have it higher than LotM on my Mann ranking list, but to me from the time we leave the fort till the very end is the best half hour of film ever, the pacing is so perfect, the editing seamless, the score grand but pitch perfect for what is happening on screen, the acting like any mann movie is done with very few words, but when they speak it hits hard. Oh how I wish I saw this in the theatre at the age of 9, but alas I did not.
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post #37 of 66
2/1/07 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpel007
Oh how I wish I saw this in the theatre
Same. The cinematography is fantastic.
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post #38 of 66
2/1/07 at 10:44am
I think its interesting to note that, while he's more famous and gets more publicity for it today (Vice), Mann's always been a perfectionist that can really rub people the wrong way. Trevor Jones was hired to do the score, but walked away due to "creative differences". Mann brought in Randy Edelman, but there is a stark and obvious difference between who did what portions of the score.

Also, Day-Lewis seems like the kind of obsessive, deadly serious actors that would thrive under Mann's regimen. I'm kind of surprised that they haven't worked together since.
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post #39 of 66
2/1/07 at 12:34pm
I did see LotM in theatres at the age of 9, and it fucked me up good. It was one of the first 2-3 R moives I ever saw, and I assumed that I loved it primarily on that basis until I went back to it 10 years later and realized that it held up in a way that Point Break didn't.
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post #40 of 66
2/1/07 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
I did see LotM in theatres at the age of 9, and it fucked me up good. It was one of the first 2-3 R moives I ever saw, and I assumed that I loved it primarily on that basis until I went back to it 10 years later and realized that it held up in a way that Point Break didn't.
Are you accusing Point Break of not holding up? Cuz you better take that back.
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post #41 of 66
2/1/07 at 5:36pm
Back off, Warchild. Seriously.
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post #42 of 66
2/1/07 at 9:38pm
I beilieve Mann was the one who suggested Marty use him in Gangs Of New York Stew, but I could be wrong.

back to LotM we were somehow allowed to watch it in the 6th grade, and I remember that whole experiance quite vivdly.

With the TV miniseries and all, I am really surprised since this a Fox film they havent re-released it.
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post #43 of 66
2/1/07 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker
Same. The cinematography is fantastic.
The early shot of the carriage crossing the bridge, as amazing as it is on the small screen, knocks your socks off on a big screen.

If I recall, the original ending was a shorter version of Means' speech. I know the last line was "So speaks Chingachkook, last of the Mohicans."

There's a moment near the end, when Cora's sister is threatening to jump off the cliff and Magua reaches his hand out to her, where I was almost ready to forgive all the horrible stuff he'd done because he actually seemed to be trying to help her.
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post #44 of 66
2/1/07 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
I did see LotM in theatres at the age of 9, and it fucked me up good. It was one of the first 2-3 R moives I ever saw, and I assumed that I loved it primarily on that basis until I went back to it 10 years later and realized that it held up in a way that Point Break didn't.
Those are two of my favorite films. You're wrong about Point Break, it's a great action film.

Before the CHUD boards, I'd only met one person who loved LOTM as much as me. I'm glad to see the film gets some recognition and love.
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post #45 of 66
2/1/07 at 11:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuddL
Are you accusing Point Break of not holding up? Cuz you better take that back.
So there really is a first for everything: JuddL and me actually on the same side.
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post #46 of 66
2/1/07 at 11:55pm
I've always been one of Point Break's biggest proponents. I'm just saying, I've now seen it so many times that it engages me primarily on an intellectual level. The weary, western objectivism embodied by Busey provides a fascinating counterpoint to Bodhi's dynamic, Carvaka-influeced mysticism. Last of the Mohicans, on the other hand, still pushes my emotional buttons after all these years. Plus, it doesn't have Lori Petty as a love interest.

Then again, it doesn't have McGinley either. Hmm...
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post #47 of 66
2/2/07 at 12:44am
I love the scene in the wilderness when Hawkeye and Cora are first hiding together from the war party at night. I wish I'd seen it on the big screen, because Mann gives the night this gorgeous shade of blue. It always stood out to me, plus it has one of the best moments of score in the film.

Oh, and does anyone else think that Cruise completely ripped off this movie for "M:I-2" Watch the waterfall scene in LOTM and the lab shootout in M:I-2.

Hawkeye: "Just stay alive, no matter what occurs."

Ethan Hunt: "Just stay alive!"

Then both leave their women and jump through a waterfall/hole in the wall.

And I just would like to thank all here for finally pushing a discussion on LotM past 10 posts.
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post #48 of 66
2/2/07 at 4:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
I love the scene in the wilderness when Hawkeye and Cora are first hiding together from the war party at night. I wish I'd seen it on the big screen, because Mann gives the night this gorgeous shade of blue. It always stood out to me, plus it has one of the best moments of score in the film.
Thats one of my favorite scenes of the film as well.

Hawkeye: My father's people say that at the birth of the sun and of his brother the moon, their mother died. So the sun gave to the earth her body, from which was to spring all life. And he drew forth from her breast the stars, and the stars he threw into the night sky to remind him of her soul. So there's the Cameron's monument. My folks' too, I guess.

Cora Munro: You are right, Mr. Poe. We do not understand what is happening here. And it's not as I imagined it would be, thinking of it in Boston and in London...

Hawkeye: Sorry to disappoint you.

Cora Munro: No, on the contrary. It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imagining could possibly have been.
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post #49 of 66
2/2/07 at 5:55am
The deatil I like the most that actually happend somewhere during the French sieges of the British forts was the childrens choir singing to the French commander. My favourite shot would have to be of them running up the waterfalls and rocks after the ambush, which then makes me think of Bridge on The River Kwai.

So my question is what do fans LotM think of The New World?
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post #50 of 66
2/2/07 at 9:21am
The New World was ok, wich is a huge disappointment considering it's a Malik film. I'm glad I didn't see one of the longer cuts, I don't think I would have liked the film if it had gone on any longer.
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