The voluptuous role model

Yeah, it's becoming a cliche now that women are becoming increasingly emaciated- with the finger of blame being pointed at Hollywood. There has to be a happy medium between Kathy Bates and Kiera Knightly!

I use Angelina Jolie as a prime example of what used to be hot, then got just too Mick Jaggery in the body fat dept. Too-Skinny chicks suck.

America Ferrera is fucking fine, and voluptuous.

And this is why Monica Bellucci is still one of the sexiest women on the planet.

Well, one of them is certainly more insulating...

Both?

Is it just me, or is there this intimation whenever this topic comes up that guys think if girls only knew how much guys like curves they wouldn't have to starve themselves in the first place?

Huh?

True that.

Nothing wrong with a woman with some meat on her bones. Or a woman without but i'd rather have with.

I don't understand the whole thing. When I was growing up, it was pretty much taken for granted that men liked tits and asses. Did our gender change at some basic biological level in the last thirty years? Personally, I'm still a great fan of the tits and asses. Unfortunately, I only get to see it on a local level, as the entertainment industry has decided to deny me.

Weirdly, though, non-white actresses do seem to be able to "get away with" being a little more voluptuous. White actresses with anything resembling curves don't make it past the casting director, it seems.

You do realise there is a very reasonable middle point between emaciated and chubby. I think that's what most women are trying to achieve.

EDIT- FACT!

I don't know anyone who would seriously prefer Skeletor Knightley over Monica Bellucci. Jennifer Hudson still is a whole different chapter, I might say.

Kate Winslet?

Also, as far as young actresses go, Anne Hathaway?

Yo!

Most regular women, yes. Not the ones in show business, however. They're actively trying to disappear.

Both good examples of exceptions. Winslet is lighter than she used to be, though. I remember reading an interview with her a few years ago, when she had decided that she had to lose weight in order to continue working, and how she felt she was letting so many people down by giving in.

Also, Hathaway is still quite young. It seems that young actresses get a little more leeway here, but are expected to stop taking nourishment as they age. See Sarah Michelle Gellar at the beginning of Buffy's run, and compare her at the end.

The question is, does the audience really demand it or is it just stupidity?

Rachel Weisz, Scarlett Johansson, Uma Thurman, Monica Bellucci and Anne Hathaway are proof the audience usually aprove women like that. Even Alba, Biel, Arielle Kebbel, Kate Beckinsale or Halle Berry, I think they are still way above Keira Knightley, Calista Flockhart craziness.

Keep in mind that whether it's driven by women, men, or whatever, images everywhere are of quite thin (flat stomach, jutting hip bones) women, mostly with relatively large breasts and asses (that is, compared to naturally thin women). These images are also "airbrushed."

They have shown that in cultures not exposed to western images of women, young girls tend to grow up with relatively healthy body images and tend to retain their normal variety of body types without feeling a great need to change. Upon introduction of western media, the girls spontaneously choose that they want to look like those images, and body image issues and dieting, etc. set in.

Yes, there is some similar pressure on men in the last 10 years or so (e.g. "Mens Health" and others with similar images of muscular men with exaggerated definition, etc.).

Personally I think it would be great if we could get truly generously proportioned women (that is, if she is over 25 and has tits and ass, she has a little round belly too, as with Renne Zellweger in Bridget Jones - lovely and proportionate). And more normal looking men - they used to be willing to show more fit men shirtless even if they didn't have a 'six pack.'

Well, not voluptuous, but average. I'd define Rachel Weisz as average, Biel very sporty, (I know many like her), Keira unheathily thin. Bellucci is in the same class as Weiz. Hudson, well she's voluptuous and while I'm not that interested in women like her, I'd like Hollywood to use them more and not only in specific roles. Like the voluptuous elder nurse in SCRUBS, the elder janitor in URBAN LEGENDS, the typical thick and funny best friend of the model heroine or the tragic chocolate drama type.

What about voluptuous women? Do they want to see Queen Latifahs on the big screen or Jessica Albas?

What are you basing this on? The last time I looked, Hollywood was dominated by T & A: Scarlett Johansson, Kate Winslet, Salma Hayek, Jessica Alba, Charlize Theron, Eva Longoria, America Ferrera, etc. And in music, there's Christina Aguilera and Beyonce.

Why does everyone pick on Keira? Sure she's skinny, so what? Her body shape is determined by her genetics, just like every other woman on the planet. Calling her Skeletor is a little extreme, especially as she seems far less concerned with body image than a clothes horse like Paris Hilton.

Keira, as far as I can tell, doesn't starve herself to look like that any more than Cate Blanchett or any of the myriad other skinny women in the world. It's not like she's Nicole Riche and used to have tits, you know. Some women are just lean. No fat, not a lot of muscle, just lean. Thin and not curvaceous is not the same as anorexic or emaciated. Paloma Baeza is another example an actress with no T&A. They look like ballerinas.

I agree. In everything that I've seen or read, it doesn't seem like Keira Knightly is interested in being thin -- it's just her body type, and she's never appeared unhealthy as far as I can tell. As compared to someone like Calista Flockhart or Lara Flynn Boyle, who started out relatively thin but still healthy and then got real skinny, real fast. And then you have Lindsay Lohan, who's rapid weight loss over the last couple years is just sad.

Also, Paloma Baeza, talk about a blast from the past. I haven't heard that name in a while -- almost ten years. I remember thinking she was cute stuff in "A Kid in King Arthur's Court" (which also starred Kate Winslet.).

Only thing is if someone is "voluptuous" in their 20s, one wonders what will they be in their 40s.

If Charlize Theron and Christina Aguilera are your idea of voluptuous, you're watching too many famine relief ads. Take all those women you just mentioned (with the exception of Ferrera) and compare them to the average women you see around town. Yes, they're on the curvaceous side for actresses, but still far thinner than the average woman. That's exactly what we're talking about. There's a standard for women who appear in entertainment that's completely out of proportion with the average woman.

No, Charlize and Christina aren't voluptuous, but they are hot, and do have T & A the last time I looked. I'm just saying that I don't see your point about Hollywood being too skinny. Sure, there are some scrawny actresses, but I don't think they're exactly dominating the entertainment industry.

And maybe I come from a slightly healthier part of the world, but I see plenty of good-looking girls around, of all shapes and sizes. So Hollywood doesn't reflect reality - big surprise.

So you're saying the entertainment industry doesn't often promote an unhealthy body image, and that millions of young girls aren't affected by this? You musn't have met very many american teenagers.

Well you must not be seeing much entertainment lately. And whether the actresses are hot has dick all to do with what we've been saying, does it? The dominance of women whose bodies represent about 10% of the female population seriously warps the body images of girls who grow up never seeing anyone like them on screen. And if you don't think Christina Aguilera is skinny, then you are among the warped, which explains your position on this.
Again, no one is complaining that actresses are attractive. Where did you get this from? And apparently you think that if it isn't a surprise that Hollywood doesn't reflect reality, it's not worth discussing. We should only get worked up over things that surprise us? I'm not surprised that Bush keeps finding new ways to violate the Constitution and human rights. Should I not care about that either?

Well, you did say earlier that the entertainment industry was denying you "tits and asses". I was merely pointing out that there is plenty of this in entertainment. And I've never met a girl who felt she had to live up to some Hollywood ideal of the perfect body shape - I really think we don't give young girls enough credit. They CAN think for themselves, you know. This whole idea of people being 'warped' by Hollywood is ridiculous - we're not drones.

I never said it wasn't worth discussing, just that this is nothing new, and that calling someone 'Skeletor' is uncalled for. By all means, let's discuss it - but enough with the rhetoric and high-mindedness please. And I take exception to the "warped" remark.

None, actually. But instead of blaming Hollywood, why don't we try something different? Like, um, educating our children better?

Imagine a movie like Into the Blue with Jennifer Hudson, Missy Elliott, Anthony Anderson and Ethan Suplee (ca ~1999) - would it sell?

And the "skeletor" bit of mine was an exaggeration.

Mike, my whole point with the "warped" remark is that if you think Charlize Theron is an example of someone in movies with plenty of boob and booty, it can only be because you've been driven to expect much less. Her curves are far, far below the average woman, as are many of the actresses' you mentioned. I just think it's kind of sad that we've all become so accustomed to seeing these intentional famine victims, that someone like Jessica Alba becomes remarkable.

What really chaps my hide, though, is when someone like Renee Zellwegger gets kudos for being "brave" and "fearless" because she actually puts on enough weight to look normal for Bridget Jones.

I would like people to keep in mind that the average American is overweight. It is not healthy to be overweight.
ETA: according to National Institute of Health in 2005, 2/3 of American adults were either overweight or obese.
Also, in New Zealand, Maori (as of 2003) had a population of which only 1/3 were overweight or obese, and the non-Maori population of NZ is less so, with only 30% of women over the age of 15 being overweight (only 15% being obese). So Mike is actually correct in that he sees mostly women who are of much healthier body types when he looks at the women in his country compared to the women in ours.


Someone like Jessica Alba is always going to be the exception because having curves and a flat stomach is always the exception. Curvy girls are curvy all over, and thin girls are thin all over, in general. (see also Jessica Biel, who is very muscular to the point of very low body fat elsewhere yet retains generous breasts, think how she'd look at the age of 40 if she wasn't working out 4 hours a day.)

I suggest that in addition to looking at the average built healthy woman, we remember (and encourage boys and girls to appreciate) that people come in all shapes and sizes - from the slight to the substantial. Isn't it a wonderful world that gives us everything from Queen Latifah to Keira Knightley? Cassie (of 'Me & U' fame) to Mama Cass Elliot of the Mamas and the Papas?

It's not just that she put on weight. It's that she did so in a role that was focused on her being self-describedly fat. To stand up in front of millions of strangers at your heaviest body weight and say, look at a close up of my ass and laugh at my faux-pas and how portly I am... that is rather brave, at least compared to most actresses who not only won't do comedy (in which one is making a fool of oneself) but they certainly wouldn't make a comedy in which they weren't considered the hottest thing on screen (such as Cameron Diaz - you'd never see her make herself ugly in a comedy). They might make themselves 'ugly' for a drama but not a comedy. Fat and ridiculous is pretty brave.

The problem was, Bridget Jones was in no way fat in that film. She looked like a normal healthy woman instead of some kind of stick insect with tits.

Nope. She was pretty fat.

In the first films she merely had meat on her bones, and she looked pretty good. In the second one they went out their way to focus on how fat Bridget was, and took every chance they had to show it (I swear Zellwegger was puffing out her cheeks in some scenes to make Bridget look even more chunky).

Sorry, I never meant I saw Charlize as voluptuous, just that there are beautiful women in Hollywood who aren't skinny. As Belethedheliel says, women in my country are on average slimmer than American women, and I base my opinions on that. Hell, last night I was on a date with a girl who was very slightly built (she's Chinese), but she's still pretty darn good-looking to me.

Greg, you are without a doubt one of the most intelligent people on these boards, I'd really like to hear what your answer is to all this. Blaming the fact that many girls struggle with body image on such a vague and esoteric notion as the 'entertainment industry' is to do these girls a massive disservice, and give Hollywood far too much credit.

EDIT: I was referring to Greg David in that last paragraph, although I'm sure you're very smart too, GC

The irony is that Skeletor is actually quite beefy:

Mind you, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be skinny women in movies. I'd just like to see more of a range represented. I'm tired of seeing research biologists and forensic pathologists who look like Victoria's Secret models. There are plenty of attractive women in the world who don't fit into that mold.

Hmm... the Victoria's Secret model look never bothered me. Let Denise Richards talk nuclear physics all she wants.

The voluptuous Katharine McPhee was on the second half of Rachael Ray and then America Ferrara was on the first half of Ellen today. It was a good lunchbreak.

(And yes, I realize admitting watching even more than a couple of minutes of Rachael Ray is something I'm never going to be able to live down.)

Denise Richards doesn't look like a Victoria's Secret model. She has boobs.

I think you may be selling Victoria's Secret short.