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the death of real for reel effects.....

post #1 of 16
2/7/07 at 5:00pm
Thread Starter 
i'm newly re-aquainted with this board. life long horror junky here. i'e been reading some of these threads and seeing some truly disturbing statements concerning some of the old school special effects people being washed up or gone. i'm still mourning that tom savini's involvement in land of the dead was a measly little cameo. am i the only person in the world who thinks that greg nicotero's effects on land were half hearted and WAY to CGI based? I HATE CGI. it looks like a goddamed sony playstation game. any thoughts?
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post #2 of 16
2/7/07 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by session9
i'm newly re-aquainted with this board. life long horror junky here. i'e been reading some of these threads and seeing some truly disturbing statements concerning some of the old school special effects people being washed up or gone. i'm still mourning that tom savini's involvement in day of the dead was a measly little cameo. am i the only person in the world who thinks that greg nicotero's effects on day were half hearted and WAY to CGI based? I HATE CGI. it looks like a goddamed sony playstation game. any thoughts?
Are you sure you don't mean Land, there?
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post #3 of 16
2/7/07 at 5:21pm
Thread Starter 
land. you're right. day was the most brilliant display of real for reel there has and ever will be.
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post #4 of 16
2/7/07 at 5:48pm
Check out Savini's book Grande Illusions II. In it, you'll learn that Nicotero, Vulich, and a variety of other kids working for Savini at the time did the bulk of the sculpting and executing of the FX for TCM2, Day of the Dead, most of his higher profile stuff after Creepshow. Savini's main contribution was in the design of the "tricks", the slieght of hand that fooled the eye.
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post #5 of 16
2/7/07 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
in doc footage of day, greg gives a huge amount of credit to savini but whatever. obviously they did do a lot of work. the point is, that films where these effects were done will never be equaled by CGI. the thing and the howling with rob bottin, day with savini and friends, even a few little tidbits hidden here and there in lucio fulci's films. (the drill scene in gates of hell comes to mind) there is a texture to these effects that cannot be computer generated.
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post #6 of 16
2/7/07 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by session9
in doc footage of day, greg gives a huge amount of credit to savini but whatever. obviously they did do a lot of work. the point is, that films where these effects were done will never be equaled by CGI.
This is true. CGI can never replicate the wobbly puppet head of Mr.Tongue from the opening credits or the rubbery look of Rhodes' latex skin when he's torn in half.
KEEPIN' IT REAL!
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post #7 of 16
2/7/07 at 6:07pm
Thread Starter 
ooooooh, bitchy! lol. c'mon now! not every effect is perfect. i just have a big problem with the whole van helsing/underword generation of films.
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post #8 of 16
2/7/07 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by session9
in doc footage of day, greg gives a huge amount of credit to savini but whatever. obviously they did do a lot of work. the point is, that films where these effects were done will never be equaled by CGI. the thing and the howling with rob bottin, day with savini and friends, even a few little tidbits hidden here and there in lucio fulci's films. (the drill scene in gates of hell comes to mind) there is a texture to these effects that cannot be computer generated.
Yet. I miss real squib bullet hits more than anything.
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post #9 of 16
2/7/07 at 6:16pm
But you're comparing the best practical work with the worst cgi effects. It's an unfair comparison. Look at the cgi squid face and zombies of PoTC and try telling me Savini's latex appliances and orange blood were better.
I love Savini's work as much as the next guy. Bottin's one of my favorites. But the GOOD cgi work of today, the stuff coming from WETA and ILM, is an improvement. And as for comparing Dead movies, well the decapitated head in Big Daddy's hand and the tongue pulled through the mouth were both on par with Savini's best effects. The Final Destination flicks had some fine looking CGI gore as well.
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post #10 of 16
2/7/07 at 6:17pm
Thread Starter 
THANK YOU. my point exactly. i will say, CGI is great in establishing environments that would be difficult or way too expensive to create. but there are too many cheats. in land, the one digital effect i did like was the priest with the pez dispenser head. it was quick enough that it worked.
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post #11 of 16
2/7/07 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
Look at the cgi squid face and zombies of PoTC and try telling me Savini's latex appliances and orange blood were better.
I love Savini's work as much as the next guy. Bottin's one of my favorites. But the GOOD cgi work of today, the stuff coming from WETA and ILM, is an improvement. And as for comparing Dead movies, well the decapitated head in Big Daddy's hand and the tongue pulled through the mouth were both on par with Savini's best effects.
Great points. I definitely have a sentimental affinity for rubbery practical stuff. And narratively, they were often showcased better than, say, a skyline shot with a hundred thousand things flying around. The biggest crimes of CGI are certain filmmakers not knowing when to rein it in. But there are guys who know how to use the tools, who know better than to let the technology drive the content.
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post #12 of 16
2/7/07 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70sCinema
Yet. I miss real squib bullet hits more than anything.
The squib.

Is it just me, or if you shot someone wearing a coat, blood should not spout from the bullet hole in the coat? Again, used correctly, they are wonderful, but even squibs have been misused.

It's all about how you use the tools. Think of all the headshots in The Departed. Or certain shots from Pan's. Those shots couldn't be done as they were filmed in the past.
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post #13 of 16
2/7/07 at 8:54pm
I've seen squibs that make the victim disappear in a fog of smoke. But a good squib hit was a good squib hit. Departed did CGI hits really well, but it's too easy for the fx guys to make those headshots pretty. There was something chaotic about a good practical squib-assisted exit wound (see Flyboy's headshot at the end of the original Dawn of the Dead).
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post #14 of 16
2/8/07 at 12:37am
CGI has a place and prosthetics have a place. The trick is to know when to use which.
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post #15 of 16
2/8/07 at 1:57am
A perfect example - and a pretty gruesome one at that - is the subtle marriage between the two in the "fire hydrant scene" from Irreversible.
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post #16 of 16
2/8/07 at 6:04am
I think you mean "fire extinguisher". But yes, that was one of the nicest head bashings ever.
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