Smashing Pumpkins - Zeitgeist

Smashing Pumpkins were way overrated then, and they're overrated now.

Thanks.

Any word on who will actually be in this band other than Billy and Jimmy?

As far as I've heard, there's been no announcement of other band members. Kind of deflates the whole "reunion" concept without Iha and D'arcy, but the Pumpkins were predominately Corgan's baby anyhow. I'm more than a little curious to hear what they come up with.

I'd love them to get their Gish sound back...

Yeah, I think this is one band that would benefit from taking a step back and returning to an older sound. Less "Machina" and more "Gish". That being said, I don't know if I'll be aboard without D'Arcy and Iha.

Me, too, but I'm not holding my breath. As soon as Corgan got the mistaken idea that he was a decent lyricist, boosted his vocals in the mix, and stopped writing to his and Chamberlain's musical strengths (circa Adore), it's been a downward slide for the man. I'd guess that things will not improve, given that Corgan now fancies himself a "poet."

At this point, hoping for the Pumpkins to regain what made Gish and Siamese Dream great is like hoping for the Who to regain what made Quadrophenia great - fundamentally not impossible, but pretty unlikely.

For the record, I don't think it makes a whit of audible difference if Iha and D'Arcy are involved or not. The relative quality of the Pumpkins rests and has always rested squarely on the shoulders of Corgan and Chamberlain (still one of my favorite rock drummers ever, if only for his work on their first three albums).

Dave, what are your thoughts on Zwan? I'd agree with your downward slide comment if it weren't for that album, which I think is just as good as the pre-Adore albums.

There's a funny new piece about the Pumpkins on McSweeney's today.

Rejected Names for Smashing Pumpkins:
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/8RyanVaughan.html

It's better than Adore and the Machina stuff, but nowhere near as good as Mellon Collie or anything before it. The Zwan album at least has some hooks, but it's still sort of forgettable and one-note. But the fact that it sounds more like the pre-Adore stuff than the post-Adore stuff supports my view on Iha and D'Arcy's contributions, overall. Their presence has very little to do with how "classic Pumpkins" Corgan's output sounds at any given time.

I'm of the opinion that the Pumpkins albums went steadily from best to worst. There is no album of theirs that I fully dislike but their earliest stuff was by far their best. Gish has always been my favorite and its crazy how different that album sounds than stuff like "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" or "Zero" (both of which sound good btw but are ruined by the lyrics).

I remember when Gish came out and getting hooked on it quickly. Soon I was really looking forward to hearing how the Pumpkins sound would progress on future albums. When Siamese Dream came around, I definitely wasn't disappointed but the organic psychedelia and mystery of the first album was already fading and they started sounding a little less unique and very similar to Jane's Addiction. I understand that the indie productions of Gish and Lull probably had a big effect on the sound of the music, but Billy's lyrics and vocals probably played an even bigger role. On Gish he wasn't yet employing that nasally tone and the lyrics were stranger. It was one of my favorite albums from the '90s and I've always felt that Gish was underrated.

There were some great songs on Machina and the Zwan's record but I don't consider either of them great albums. Billy's solo disc is either not very good or awful but I can't remember because I never had another desire to hear it after a few spins. Although I could do without parts of Mellon Collie, I think that is the last really good album with Billy at the helm. I'll approach anything new with caution but I'll always give him another chance. I highly disagree with the hordes of people who consider him an annoying and talentless hack. He can be annoying but he is a brilliant musician (the lyrics and singing are debatable though).

It's been awhile since I listened to it, but I remember really digging the first few songs on Zwan's album. Sadly, with the exception of a couple of later tunes, the rest of the album doesn't maintain the quality of those first few tracks. Even so, I would rank the good Zwan songs on par with the best of the Pumpkins stuff. In some ways, I would have been more curious to see how that project evolved instead of the Pumpkins.

I agree that D'Arcy and Iha, while solid performers, weren't major creative contributors. That said, I always appreciated whenever Iha was given a couple of songs on an album. Made for a nice, delicate respite, especially during Corgan's most bombastic periods. (I'm thinking Mellon Collie here.)

The last Corgan-related project that I had any interest in and actually enjoyed was Hole's CELEBRITY SKIN. I think Corgan's ego and uncurbed ambitions over the last decade have led to the mediocrity that seems like a permanent staple of his output nowadays.

Agreed. Adore could've been a much better album if Chamberlain had actually played on that one. His insistent drumming was sorely missed.

I know it's easy to hate on Corgan, hell I was a huge, huge Pumpkins fan back in the day, and I still wanted to strangle him most of the time. But to discount his songwriting ability is just silly. Nope, he's not the greatest singer, and he usually just screamed instead of trying to even hit the low notes, but he was a fine lyricist and a vastly underrated guitar player.