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Department of Injustice

post #1 of 70
Thread Starter 
So I haven't been following the news as much as I should have recently. There's just so much I can take regarding having actual evidence of misconduct by the government and no sanctions against them. Now we know why:

NYT

Quote:
For those of us living in the Garden State, the growing scandal over the firing of federal prosecutors immediately brought to mind the subpoenas that Chris Christie, the former Bush “Pioneer” who is now the U.S. attorney for New Jersey, issued two months before the 2006 election — and the way news of the subpoenas was quickly leaked to local news media.

The subpoenas were issued in connection with allegations of corruption on the part of Senator Bob Menendez, a Democrat who seemed to be facing a close race at the time. Those allegations appeared, on their face, to be convoluted and unconvincing, and Mr. Menendez claimed that both the investigation and the leaks were politically motivated.

Mr. Christie’s actions might have been all aboveboard. But given what we’ve learned about the pressure placed on federal prosecutors to pursue dubious investigations of Democrats, Mr. Menendez’s claims of persecution now seem quite plausible.

In fact, it’s becoming clear that the politicization of the Justice Department was a key component of the Bush administration’s attempt to create a permanent Republican lock on power. Bear in mind that if Mr. Menendez had lost, the G.O.P. would still control the Senate.

For now, the nation’s focus is on the eight federal prosecutors fired by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. In January, Mr. Gonzales told the Senate Judiciary Committee, under oath, that he “would never, ever make a change in a United States attorney for political reasons.” But it’s already clear that he did indeed dismiss all eight prosecutors for political reasons — some because they wouldn’t use their offices to provide electoral help to the G.O.P., and the others probably because they refused to soft-pedal investigations of corrupt Republicans.

In the last few days we’ve also learned that Republican members of Congress called prosecutors to pressure them on politically charged cases, even though doing so seems unethical and possibly illegal.

The bigger scandal, however, almost surely involves prosecutors still in office. The Gonzales Eight were fired because they wouldn’t go along with the Bush administration’s politicization of justice. But statistical evidence suggests that many other prosecutors decided to protect their jobs or further their careers by doing what the administration wanted them to do: harass Democrats while turning a blind eye to Republican malfeasance.

Donald Shields and John Cragan, two professors of communication, have compiled a database of investigations and/or indictments of candidates and elected officials by U.S. attorneys since the Bush administration came to power. Of the 375 cases they identified, 10 involved independents, 67 involved Republicans, and 298 involved Democrats. The main source of this partisan tilt was a huge disparity in investigations of local politicians, in which Democrats were seven times as likely as Republicans to face Justice Department scrutiny.

How can this have been happening without a national uproar? The authors explain: “We believe that this tremendous disparity is politically motivated and it occurs because the local (non-statewide and non-Congressional) investigations occur under the radar of a diligent national press. Each instance is treated by a local beat reporter as an isolated case that is only of local interest.”

And let’s not forget that Karl Rove’s candidates have a history of benefiting from conveniently timed federal investigations. Last year Molly Ivins reminded her readers of a curious pattern during Mr. Rove’s time in Texas: “In election years, there always seemed to be an F.B.I. investigation of some sitting Democrat either announced or leaked to the press. After the election was over, the allegations often vanished.”

Fortunately, Mr. Rove’s smear-and-fear tactics fell short last November. I say fortunately, because without Democrats in control of Congress, able to hold hearings and issue subpoenas, the prosecutor purge would probably have become yet another suppressed Bush-era scandal — a huge abuse of power that somehow never became front-page news.

Before the midterm election, I wrote that what the election was really about could be summed up in two words: subpoena power. Well, the Democrats now have that power, and the hearings on the prosecutor purge look like the shape of things to come.

In the months ahead, we’ll hear a lot about what’s really been going on these past six years. And I predict that we’ll learn about abuses of power that would have made Richard Nixon green with envy.
The US Republican-led government is firing federal prosecutors for not going after Democrats and for prosecuting Republicans when it is merited to do so. This is absolutely insane. No one can deny that there is a severe misuse in power if out of 375 prosecuted cases, 67 were Republicans compared to 298 Democrats!
post #2 of 70
Thread Starter 
NYT's follow up OpEd

Now there's evidence that the GOP was not only involved in firing the prosecutors that didn't play down party lines, but resorted to mafia tactics threatening to retaliate against people who cried foul to the public.

Quote:
Nobody is surprised to learn that the Justice Department was lying when it claimed that recently fired federal prosecutors were dismissed for poor performance. Nor is anyone surprised to learn that White House political operatives were pulling the strings.

What is surprising is how fast the truth is emerging about what Alberto Gonzales, the attorney general, dismissed just five days ago as an “overblown personnel matter.”

Sources told Newsweek that the list of prosecutors to be fired was drawn up by Mr. Gonzales’s chief of staff, “with input from the White House.” And Allen Weh, the chairman of the New Mexico Republican Party, told McClatchy News that he twice sought Karl Rove’s help — the first time via a liaison, the second time in person — in getting David Iglesias, the state’s U.S. attorney, fired for failing to indict Democrats. “He’s gone,” he claims Mr. Rove said.

After that story hit the wires, Mr. Weh claimed that his conversation with Mr. Rove took place after the decision to fire Mr. Iglesias had already been taken. Even if that’s true, Mr. Rove should have told Mr. Weh that political interference in matters of justice is out of bounds; Mr. Weh’s account of what he said sounds instead like the swaggering of a two-bit thug.

And the thuggishness seems to have gone beyond firing prosecutors who didn’t deliver the goods for the G.O.P. One of the fired prosecutors was — as he saw it — threatened with retaliation by a senior Justice Department official if he discussed his dismissal in public. Another was rejected for a federal judgeship after administration officials, including then-White House counsel Harriet Miers, informed him that he had “mishandled” the 2004 governor’s race in Washington, won by a Democrat, by failing to pursue vote-fraud charges.

As I said, none of this is surprising. The Bush administration has been purging, politicizing and de-professionalizing federal agencies since the day it came to power. But in the past it was able to do its business with impunity; this time Democrats have subpoena power, and the old slime-and-defend strategy isn’t working.

You also have to wonder whether new signs that Mr. Gonzales and other administration officials are willing to cooperate with Congress reflect the verdict in the Libby trial. It probably comes as a shock to realize that even Republicans can face jail time for lying under oath.

Still, a lot of loose ends have yet to be pulled. We now know exactly why Mr. Iglesias was fired, but still have to speculate about some of the other cases — in particular, that of Carol Lam, the U.S. attorney for Southern California.

Ms. Lam had already successfully prosecuted Representative Randy Cunningham, a Republican. Just two days before leaving office she got a grand jury to indict Brent Wilkes, a defense contractor, and Kyle (Dusty) Foggo, the former third-ranking official at the C.I.A. (Mr. Foggo was brought in just after the 2004 election, when, reports said, the administration was trying to purge the C.I.A. of liberals.) And she was investigating Representative Jerry Lewis, Republican of California, the former head of the House Appropriations Committee.

Was Ms. Lam dumped to protect corrupt Republicans? The administration says no, a denial that, in light of past experience, is worth precisely nothing. But how do Congressional investigators plan to get to the bottom of this story?

Another big loose end involves what U.S. attorneys who weren’t fired did to please their employers. As I pointed out last week, the numbers show that since the Bush administration came to power, federal prosecutors have investigated far more Democrats than Republicans.

But the numbers can tell only part of the story. What we really need — and it will take a lot of legwork — is a portrait of the actual behavior of prosecutors across the country. Did they launch spurious investigations of Democrats, as I suggested last week may have happened in New Jersey? Did they slow-walk investigations of Republican scandals, like the phone-jamming case in New Hampshire?

In other words, the truth about that “overblown personnel matter” has only begun to be told. The good news is that for the first time in six years, it’s possible to hope that all the facts about a Bush administration scandal will come out in Congressional hearings — or, if necessary, in the impeachment trial of Alberto Gonzales.
No words are truer than the very last paragraph. If these facts don't cause an uproar on Capital Hill, I really don't know what will.
post #3 of 70
And people wonder why people (liberals in particular) were so against the Patriot Act. The provisions contained allowed these abuses to take place.

And yes, in light of this somewhat inevitable news, Obama's vote to re-authorize the Patriot Act is severely disappointing.
post #4 of 70
Wasn't Alberto Gonzales just a real estate attorney before someone tapped him to be Bush's attorney to help him get out of jury duty (since he had a drunk driving charge in his history and didn't want it to come to light)?
post #5 of 70
This really pisses me off.
post #6 of 70
Thread Starter 
Yeah, there's not much to say beyond this. It's just blatant abuse of power. If this scandal doesn't become bigger it really will be a sad time for democracy.
post #7 of 70
Well, I guess that's the last time we'll see one of our guys in a position of power for a long time to come.

Thanks a lot pendejo Gonzales.
post #8 of 70
There may be a certain case of scandal overload at the moment. Between Scooter, the FBI thing, Walter Reed, and the US Attorney thing, there are enough scandals and controversies to be stretched out over months. And we get them all in one. The message is going to get diluted and there will probably be a "this is all because of the liberal media!" backlash.
post #9 of 70
I know...let's invade some middle eastern countries on a totally fabricated pretext, then preach the virtues of "democracy". What't that saying about shitting on your own doorstep?
post #10 of 70
Here's my problem with this: what's the endgame to the scandal?

The President can pretty much do what he wants with the personnel in his agencies. So, firing a whole bunch of people and replacing them with republican toadies -- while ethically reprehensible -- is well within his discretion. So while I'm not pleased with what happened, and I think it sheds some very important light on who's running the government, I'm not sure where all the Congressional hearings and what-not are going. I mean really -- who's surprised that this was politically motivated? Everything with these a-holes is politically motivated.

I guess getting Gonzalez out of there would be a nice start, but what else? Where can this lead, legally?
post #11 of 70
To be fair, the USAs that were dismissed were all Republicans in good standing.... just not Republican loyalists. The manner of their termination was misrepresented to Congress... that's something you're not supposed to do (see "Clinton" and "impeachment"). The pressure brought to bear on certain USAs by Republican politicians followed by their dismissal (after receiving positive employee reviews) implies intereference in how they prosecute cases.

My search fu is weak so I can't find my source, but a study of corruption cases... you know what, I'm not going to print a stat without a source. That always bites people in the ass.

This is a good article on Slate. http://www.slate.com/id/2161804/nav/tap1/
post #12 of 70
Certainly, these firings were not ethical. But there was no illegality. As far as I can tell, no one lied under oath. I'd be happy to be wrong, but there doesn't appear to be an illegality here. So what is the point behind the investigations?
post #13 of 70
Congress' intense dislike for being made irrelevant. The replacement USAs wouldn't be up for Congressional approval due to a loophole in the Patriot Act.

Also, as a very nice Republican lady on MSNBC said today, and I'm paraphrasing, the administration can fire appointees for any reason or for no reason, but they can't for bad reasons. Remember, government is not just about what laws are broken. Ethics (are supposed to) still play a role.
post #14 of 70
It appears that AG Gonzales is about to "resign". That's good news; Gonzales was never qualified in the first place.
post #15 of 70
This is technically legal, since provisions in the Patriot Act allowed these firings to take place all without Congressional oversight. The endgame is really about overturning or rewriting law so that this awful effect doesn't take place.

If you wanted evidence that the executuive branch has way overstepped its authority and abused the "good faith" laws passed since 9/11, here it is.
post #16 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt
It appears that AG Gonzales is about to "resign". That's good news; Gonzales was never qualified in the first place.
Ahh, the scapegoat. Gonzalez resigns, the scandal goes away, and Rove and his cronies will get off scot free.
post #17 of 70
...you want we should hit him?
post #18 of 70
Bush Affirms Support for Gonzalez

Medal of Freedom soon to follow.

From page 2 of the same article,
Quote:
Congressional Democrats have been pushing to get Bush administration officials to testify on the issue. This afternoon, White House officials said they would allow Bush's political adviser Karl Rove and former counsel Harriet Miers to talk to members of Congress about the firings. But they insisted that the meetings be private with no transcripts and Rove and Miers not be under oath.

Democrats have rejected such constraints but said negotiations will continue with the White House.
"You can talk to Rove and Miers, but they retain the right to lie and no one can ever hear what they tell you. Deal?"
post #19 of 70
There's nothing to negotiate. Subpoena their fucking asses and let's take this fight that much further.
post #20 of 70
Anyone watching Bush squirm on the hook right now? He's claiming that opening up his aides to testifying in front of Congress would hurt their ability to give him good advice, since they'd be afraid anything they say could be held to scrutiny.

WELL IT FUCKING SHOULD.
post #21 of 70
What good advice would that be?
post #22 of 70
Bush's best bet would have been to take the wind out of the sails of this scandal and release Gonzales toute suite. But by stamping his feet and holding his breath he's just assured that this is going to get bigger and bigger. That press conference was so Nixonian, it was scary...
post #23 of 70
Anyone know where/if there's video of the press conference? I've been in class all day.
post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Anyone watching Bush squirm on the hook right now? He's claiming that opening up his aides to testifying in front of Congress would hurt their ability to give him good advice, since they'd be afraid anything they say could be held to scrutiny.
This is amazing to me, as it's exactly Nixon's reasoning for resisting the Watergate investigation. Right up until, you know, it was rejected and he was chased out of office. Not the strongest precedent to rely on.

I don't know, I guess I suspected him to bring a little more competence to his own defense than he has to everything else he's ever done.
post #25 of 70
All of this is disheartening and completely plausible considering the situation the US is currently in. First Bush has led us into another Vietnam and now we are dangerously close to another Watergate. Disgusting abuse of power.
post #26 of 70
I am sad that I missed this.
post #27 of 70
He was so completely flustered during the whole thing -- he honestly didn't seem to understand why having these people give "interviews" behind closed doors with no oath and no transcripts looked fishy. And this whole idea that his staff shouldn't have to operate under fear of being subpoenaed -- how about not doing anything subpoenable, there's a good way not to operate under the fear of being subpoenaed.
post #28 of 70
I'm searching YouTube but can't seem to find the conference anywhere. Anyone have a transcript? CNN's article about it was ok, but I'd like a more blow-by-blow account.
post #29 of 70
This administration is certainly setting the bar low for the Democrats' inevetable pledge to have the 'most ethical administration ever'.

Just like Clinton's. Ugh.

I'm beginning to appreciate the idea behind votes of no confidence in other democracies.....
post #30 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark
I'm searching YouTube but can't seem to find the conference anywhere. Anyone have a transcript? CNN's article about it was ok, but I'd like a more blow-by-blow account.
WhiteHouse.gov has a transcript.
post #31 of 70
Thanks. This is my favorite part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transcript
Q In San Diego, Nevada, Arizona, Republicans were the targets of investigations, and those U.S. attorneys were removed. Does that not give the appearance --

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't -- it may give the appearance of something, but I think what you need to do is listen to the facts, and let them explain to -- it's precisely why they're going up to testify, so that the American people can hear the truth about why the decision was made.

Listen, first of all, these U.S. attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President. I named them all. And the Justice Department made recommendations, which the White House accepted, that eight of the 93 would no longer serve. And they will go up and make the explanations as to why -- I'm sorry this, frankly, has bubbled to the surface the way it has, for the U.S. attorneys involved. I really am. These are -- I put them in there in the first place; they're decent people. They serve at our pleasure. And yet, now they're being held up into the scrutiny of all this, and it's just -- what I said in my comments, I meant about them. I appreciated their service, and I'm sorry that the situation has gotten to where it's got. But that's Washington, D.C. for you. You know, there's a lot of politics in this town.
I like how he starts off trying to find a way to defend that stance, before just falling back on his "pleasure of the president" talking point.
post #32 of 70
Quote:
... it's precisely why they're going up to testify, so that the American people can hear the truth about why the decision was made.
This is where he started losing it, because he realized that what he's proposing is exactly the opposite of letting the American people hear the truth.

Quote:
I'm sorry this, frankly, has bubbled to the surface the way it has
Oh I'm sure you are.

Quote:
And yet, now they're being held up into the scrutiny of all this, and it's just -- what I said in my comments, I meant about them. I appreciated their service, and I'm sorry that the situation has gotten to where it's got.
Yes, it's the fired attourneys who are suffering under all this scrutiny, think of the poor fired attourneys and just let this die!

This IS downright Nixonian.
post #33 of 70
Edited because I'm tired of complaining.
post #34 of 70
Q In San Diego, Nevada, Arizona, Republicans were the targets of investigations, and those U.S. attorneys were removed. Does that not give the appearance --

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't -- it may give the appearance of something, but I think what you need to do is listen to the facts, and let them explain to -- it's precisely why they're going up to testify, so that the American people can hear the truth about why the decision was made.


I realize it's awfully redundant to use the word "Orwellian" to describe this administration's language, but this is downright stupefying. It's not even 1 step removed from "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery", etc.
post #35 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer
Bush's best bet would have been to take the wind out of the sails of this scandal and release Gonzales toute suite. But by stamping his feet and holding his breath he's just assured that this is going to get bigger and bigger. That press conference was so Nixonian, it was scary...
That was his problem with Rumsfeld too. Bush seems to prize loyalty above all. If you are loyal to him and his administration, he will back you till the end. It took a threatened revolt in his own party to get him to pull Harriet Miers's nomination to the Supreme Court. That's not always the best way to run things.

That being said, I am uncomfortable with Congress subpoenaing testimony from the president's advisers about advice given to the president when there is no crime involved. This will be an interesting legal battle.
post #36 of 70
I don't think they will be able to get Harriet Miers pinned down. She was official White House Counsel, and I imagine there's got to be some privilege there. Karl Rove, though... that's another matter.
post #37 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
That was his problem with Rumsfeld too. Bush seems to prize loyalty above all. If you are loyal to him and his administration, he will back you till the end. It took a threatened revolt in his own party to get him to pull Harriet Miers's nomination to the Supreme Court. That's not always the best way to run things.

That being said, I am uncomfortable with Congress subpoenaing testimony from the president's advisers about advice given to the president when there is no crime involved. This will be an interesting legal battle.
I think the point of the investigation is to clarify whether the Justice Department acted accordingly when dismissing these Attorneys. If it's true that they were fired to cover up Republican corruption, then that opens up a whole new batch of legal issues and can land Bush in a big pot of hot water.
post #38 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
That was his problem with Rumsfeld too.
And Brownie.
post #39 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
And Brownie.
Heck of a point.
post #40 of 70
Of course if this all comes to a head and Congress wants to bring charges of contempt against Rove and Miers for ignoring a subpoena, the person in charge of prosecuting those charges is.. the DC U.S. Attorney.

They sure know their parliamentary procedure, I'll give them that.
post #41 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonvoight's car
That being said, I am uncomfortable with Congress subpoenaing testimony from the president's advisers about advice given to the president when there is no crime involved. This will be an interesting legal battle.
This is just the first shot across the bow. Bush is going to claim executive privilege over anyone who works for him in any capacity. This is the Nixon argument that failed back in the 70's. If the SCOTUS respects stare decsis (sp), then it should be a loser here too. Regardless, any meaningful accountability begins with Congress issuing subpoenas, and Bush plans to block every single one. This issue needs to resolved before we can move on to bigger and better scandals.

Besides, Congress can get people to testify about whatever. Oversight requires it.

Additionally, if I remember my pro res, Meiers can only claim a legal privilege regarding discussions where Bush was seeking legal advice. That's a pretty slippery standard, sure, but here it is doubtful Bush was seeking legal advice. He can ditch any of his USAs for any reason he wants -- that's the law. What's in question here is why they were dismissed and if was because of a politicalization of the DOJ.
post #42 of 70
NOW it's on.

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) - A House panel on Wednesday approved subpoenas for President Bush's political adviser, Karl Rove and other top White House aides, setting up a constitutional showdown over the firings of eight federal prosecutors.

By voice vote, the House Judiciary subcommittee on commercial and administrative law decided to compel the president's top aides to testify publicly and under oath about their roles in the firings.
Go get 'em.
post #43 of 70
*whistles theme from Good, the Bad & the Ugly*
post #44 of 70
You know what really pisses me off??? The headline on Cnn.com. It reads: "Congress defies Bush; issues subpoenas".

Congress defies Bush??? Give me a goddamned break! Congress is a co-equal branch of government. Bush has little to say about what Congress does, dammit. Bush is not a King; he cannot order Congress to do something, therefore there is no "defiance".

/rant
post #45 of 70
Regardless....

post #46 of 70
I have a question?

Karl Rove is not a member of the US government is he. While he is Bush's political advisor and does use Bush's power on his behalf. But as political advisor isn't he not a member of the government but someone paid for to give advice to Bush on political matters, and not part of the excutive itself.

I understand how Meirs can't really be Subpoened as no matter what it is client/attoreny prilvage
post #47 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordelsey
I have a question?

Karl Rove is not a member of the US government is he. While he is Bush's political advisor and does use Bush's power on his behalf. But as political advisor isn't he not a member of the government but someone paid for to give advice to Bush on political matters, and not part of the excutive itself.

I understand how Meirs can't really be Subpoened as no matter what it is client/attoreny prilvage
He is deputy chief of staff in the White House.

Edit: His official title is Deputy White House Chief of Staff for Strategic Planning and Senior Advisor to the President.
post #48 of 70
I don't think Miers should be subpoenaed. It sets a bad, bad precedent. I would definitely think attorney/client privilege applied there.
post #49 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny
I don't think Miers should be subpoenaed. It sets a bad, bad precedent. I would definitely think attorney/client privilege applied there.
Surely only if she were subpoenaed to give testimony regarding legal matters she discussed with president, right? Or is any conversation with her a legal discussion by default?
post #50 of 70
Who's going to wade in there and define that? I would think that any discussion about the merits of US attorneys would definitely be a legal one. They could certainly claim so. Attorney/client privilege isn't just to protect from incrimination.
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