Alanis Morissette covers My Humps - Page 2

I would put it way past her. If that was the intention she would have been trumpeting it for years.

Well, I was being a smartass - I think she just had the wrong def of ironic and misfortunately committed it to record.

It doesn't make me dislike her; I don't own any of her music but I do have an embarrassing tendency to sing along with the radio.

You were responding to Dickson's post, so I figured you were probably responding to, y'know, his point rather than his terminology. When guys who are doing essentially the same thing she does get criticized, the critiques tends to get shrugged off as PC prudishness. Meanwhile, the "conceited whore" label seems to stick, unchallenged, when it's applied to Fergie, Britney, Christina, even Madonna. There's certainly a lot of truth there in that these artists invoke their sexuality to put their music across, but I'm not convinced that it's an offense worthy of more scorn than their male counterparts who get off largely scot-free.

Yes.

And, actually, I really like Bad Religion, but the lyrics have the aesthetic appeal of an anthropology term paper. Probably not the best comparison point for either Morrisette or Fergie.

...

Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I really think this is something that SOMEONE would have caught along the way.

Somehow, I have difficulty envisioning that having too MUCH faith in other people is one of your problems.

Like Devin said, if it WAS a meta thing, she would've said so the SECOND the criticisms about how un-ironic the bulk of the lyrics are started.

...but they aren't shakin' their ass in Daisy Dukes while they do so.

It's similar but not the same.

Well, no, it's not exact parallel, but Fergie wouldn't sell many records affecting a bullet-riddled, dumb thug, tough-guy vibe, and 50 Cent wouldn't sell many records wearing a short skirt and shaking his ass. They're both using outrageously exaggerated behavior that, in small amounts, might be admirable in real life (confidence and strength, sexiness), but on TV, are cartoonish. The biggest difference is that the exaggerated tough guy man (no matter how misogynist, sociopathic, and dumb) is a badass and the exaggerated sexy woman is "a whore."

Not to mention the double-edged sword that women encounter - even women performers OBVIOUSLY not overtly exploiting their sexuality (I'm thinking Norah Jones, Cat Power, Feist, whatever) get evaluated by male audiences based on their looks and sexuality (and they're usually the first to call them on being "whores," if they take it a teensy bit too far). So, while it ain't exactly admirable, I understand why female pop stars often resort to this image.

Well, I know you don't find Fitty Cent to be "badass" and neither do I. I think he's vile and that whoever shot him should come back and finish the job, but that's neither here nor there.

That doesn't make it right or excusable. Oddly enough, country seems to have artists who exploit their sexuality without exuding whorishness (Shania Twain, most notably). For some reason, that doesn't seem to carry over much in the pop/rock genre - though Alannis AND Liz Phair both seem to manage to be sexual and artistic (not to debate the merits of their music here, but they are generally a bit smarter than "My Humps") without getting much crap for it.

Dude, it's an offense worthy of plenty scorn. And it's not PC prudishness. Guys who sing about bitches and ho's are mysogynist pigs. Women who sing about flashing their tits to get some cash are conceited whores. Or at least acting like conceited whores - maybe it's just some manufactured image thing, I don't know.

Only if Alanis were half as sexy and artistic as Miss Phair. Sorry, I know you probably didn't mean to compare the two, but seeing Phair's name mentioned alongside Horse Face propagated a reaction out of me.

Not every discussion needs a devil's advocate. Regardless of the singer, this song is panda rape.

I'd say musically Alannis is a bit of an opportunist - she was a Debbie Gibson type teen idol at first until the alterna-boom hit and she decided she was deep and tormented. But I'd say she's probably in Phair's ballpark talent-wise.

Looks wise....completely different story.

Lyrically, Phair blows Alanis out of the water. Musically, I find her style much more pleasing to the ears and heart. So, IMHO, there's no comparison talent-wise. Phair wins by a wide margin. If Alanis didn't have her polished production to glide her by, she wouldn't even be fit for radio mass-consumption with her shit-inducing vocals.

You're either blind or a lesbian.

I'm sure I'm just pointing out the obvious here, but this is the stuff that makes women artists exploit their sexuality (and sometimes intentionally or unintentionally cross over into "whorishness"). Practically any thread on a woman artist on this board is half about the music and half about how hot or not she is. I'm probably just as guilty of doing this as anyone, but, the way I see it, we guys have to admit some partial responsibility for artists like Fergie (even if she's not my cup of tea, aesthetically or physically speaking). Any time we evaluate a woman on her physical appearance as much as her music, we open the door to these types of artists who attempt to get by seemingly on market-driven LCD sexuality alone. And, hey, that kind of sexuality works for some guys a lot more than the more adult, complex, and intelligent stuff by (let's say pre-self-titled album, so we don't get into another argument) Phair.

Even Morissette, who never really exploited her sexuality in the same way (the sex in her first hit was characterized only by bitterness; when she appeared naked in a video, it was clinical and unflattering), was an object of lust for a couple friends of mine. Heck, even all-guy discussions about Sleater-Kinney, who are all about the music and have no shortage of gender politics content in their songs, often turn into group wanks about how hot Corin Tucker looks onstage. It's not like Thom Yorke or Michael Stipe are discussed in the same way (at least to the same degree) by women fans.

Again, it's not like I'm immune (for the record, Phair, Tucker - yes; Morissette, Fergie - no), but I think it explains Fergie and her ilk in some small way.

To be fair, I was just commending her for aging not too poorly.

DaveB, I believe male fans also judge male artist based on their looks. Kurt Cobain would not have been as popular if he hadn't been good/cool-looking. Its just more verbalized when it concerns women.

Yeah, that was totally necessary, as I was debating whether or not to bring up HWC (or any other of the unbelievably bad tracks from that particular album). Purely as a Devil's Advocate, though.

I completely agree. However, even while it explains the tendency of even respected female artists to exploit their sexuality, the fact remains that "My Humps" is a completely despicable song. Young girls listen to this, and sing the lyrics, and the song is literally about being a stupid spoiled whore. I'd even give her the benefit of a doubt that the song were satirical except that all her other songs are the same fucking thing.

Alannis blew Dave Coulier in a theater. How do you top that for crap giving?

I will note this: Being a rock star, of any sexuality, makes you a sexual figure in the public eye. Even the guys of Weezer are surely not for want of groupies.

Male fans do not give a shit what male artists look like. And besides, it was like four hit singles before anyone got a good look at him.

Not necessarily true. I've never heard a Fall out Boy song, but just seeing them makes me want to punch them in the face for some reason.

I strongly disagree. Most popular artists look good, doesn't matter if they are male or female or if their public is male or female. Pop music is tied to image.

Elvis, The Beatles, Eminem, The Rolling Stones, Kanye West, Trent Reznor etc. All good looking and charismatic guys.

You're right, Dave. Subconsciously, when I listen to a female artist, I'm also evaluating her physical character. It may be the genetics in me, but that's what I've been preprogrammed to do, though just how much of that is due to environmental factors? When I think of my favorite female artists (Liz Phair, Deborah Harry, Chrissie Hynde, Sleater-Kinney, Christine McVie with Fleetwood Mac pre-90s), I'm attracted to each and every one of them, which is a scary thing to ponder because I put so much faith in my taste in music on a singular level. I mean, I didn't track down Phair's Girly Sound demos just because I find her hot as hell. I genuinely dig her music, but her physical prowess certainly plays a role in my relationship and connection with her image. It only adds to what I probably can label an infatuation of sorts.

And not to start up the Phair sell-out debate again, I just have to state I find her self-titled material to still be more intelligent and lyrically savvy than the majority of the shit pouring out of the pop female machine. And what's *really* ironic--more ironic than an Alanis could ever deem--it's a genuine pop album. For those that remain unconvinced and think Phair has lost it, there's some great stuff buried on her 2005 release (the title track, 'Leap Of Innocence', 'Got My Own Thing', 'Lazy Dreamer', 'Closer To You', 'Table For One').

I take back what I said in the Public Display of Affection thread. THIS is the new "standing/sitting" thread. And this one made me laugh harder.

There's fun pop music, and there's audio bile. Does this kid say "don't poo on my hand"?

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. It's not really a slam, since, like I said, I sometimes do it myself. But I think this conflation of talent and sexiness is more troublesome when it informs negative opinions rather than positive. It's one thing to say Liz Phair is attractive and talented (as long as it doesn't become creepy to the point that the music becomes purely an afterthought); it seems to me to be another to say, "not only is Fergie a terrible singer, but she's an ugly whore." It's just a weird sort of overkill as if her being untalented weren't enough - she has to be punished for having the nerve to be unattractive and sexual, too (this is a tricky argument for me to make, because I really don't like her music and don't find her attractive). There's a lot of weird contradictory prudishness tied up there, because, of course, Liz Phair is explicity sexual, too - but she's allowed to be since she's (to some) talented and (to some) pretty.

Some of my favorite female artists aren't really my type at all, though, Patti Smith probably being at the top of that list. I'm convinced that a lot of guys don't like her because she's not typically attractive, though, rather than on her musical merits.

I like some of that album, too; I just didn't want to get into it.

Bottomline: It was really unfunny.

Edit: And I say this as a shameless fan of Alanis Morrisette and her music.

Edit part deux: I hope Fergie does a cover of Uninvited. That would make this all worth it.

I was somewhat undecided until I heard a snippet of this back-to-back with a vaudeville-sounding cover of Kelis' "Milkshake," and that pretty much capped it for me.

Weird juxtaposition sucks when it's done for a joke, but when the artist actually likes the original, like Fountains of Wayne's cover of "Hit Me Baby One More Time" or the gazillion covers of "Since You've Been Gone," then it's a lot more interesting.

Case in point: Dread Zeppelin.

"And I know I'm comin off just a little bit conceited and I keep on repeating how the boys wanna eat it" she even admits to being a conceited whore in her more recent spew.

There's a mountain of songs you could take, throw into a different context, pump full of melodrama, and of course they're going to seem ridiculous. Lyrics, even in good songs, are often pretty ridiculous if you tried to use them in a serious context.

I like Fergie, though she's definitely had better songs. But taking a pop or hip hop song, removing all the production and shoehorning it into a different genre as a means of saying "See, this song sucks" is stupid. It is undeniably funny (btw, Will Ferrell did this on SNL forever with Robert Goulet doing Jay-Z songs), but its stupid to act like she "exposed" this song as crap.

Let's have John Mayer sing the lyrics to Notorious B.I.G. songs next. It will be funny, but if you don't get the fact that B.I.G made great songs, you're an idiot.

Certainly the image of Devin shaking it to "My Humps" must be excluded from this sweeping statement.

Compare the awful Pat Boone metal covers album (In the Metal Mood, I think) to the pretty decent Rock Swings by Paul Anka. It becomes quite apparent that Paul Anka actually likes the songs he recorded and felt that they would work as swing songs. Whereas Boone did it as a joke.

You also have the fact that Paul Anka covering Bon Jovi's "It's My Life" not only makes for a good song but it's also fairly meta.

I recall Ann Wilson (from Heart)'s weight being a big issue back when, well, anyone gave a shit about Heart.

Having seen them live in the past few years, I think that it was absolutely ridiculous; she's a great frontwoman with a great voice at any size. But that shit matters to some people.

Wow....we expect more from you man.

Even pop music doesn't need to be such brain numbing crap, and the same goes for popcorn movies. There's a big difference between cheap entertainment and pure garbage that rapes your brain.

I've noticed this effect too. For instance, half the internet spent the last nine years jacking off to Britney Spears, but I've never found her attractive, because her music is horrible and frankly, she always comes off as half retarded whenever anything not written by an outside songwriter comes out of her mouth. I don't know if it makes me more shallow or less shallow, but the fact that she sucks on so many levels (while trying laughably hard to be sexy) is a turnoff. Obviously not all female artists (using the term as loosely as possible in Britney's case) are selling sex so blatantly, and true artists who happen to be female don't deserve to have to promote themselves this way. The image shouldn't matter. When I want to watch pornography, I'll watch pornography. Music shouldn't be all based on tits and ass.

Alanis Morrissette might not have Joni Mitchell's gravitas or Bjork's pipes, but she does her own thing. Black Eyed Peas release overproduced click tracks.

I've read messages pointing out that other songs have nonsensical silly lrics. That's true. "Idioteque" by Radiohead is meaningless, incomprehensible apocalyptic imagery. It's pointless lyrically. But, ah, here's the point: it's a masterpiece of production, tremendous instrumentals, and Thom Yorke's haunting vocals. I've heard multiple renditions and it's a masterpiece every time. (Obadiah Parker's take is amazing.)

My Humps is a disaster for reasons other than its mind-numbingly bad lyrics. There's the message of it. (Hate it when guys do it too. I'm no hypocrite.) It's absolutely atrociously sung. The guy seems to be grunting. I can't describe Miss Ferguson accurately in words, but we'll leave it at that she sounds like a third grader clanging (repeating onsense syllables) and squealing. The backing is hideous, sounding like a Playskool My First Synthesizer. I will leave a store if it's on.

The cover...still stinks but it's at least marginally sung with a decent backing.

Neko Case doesn't really go out of her way to look "hawt"; Emmylou Harris never really dressed up either. Which is either good or a pity, because both are stunningly lovely without all the bells and whistles - dolling them up would be like putting a jet on a rocket.

But as a counter, I recall Roseanne Cash - who I wouldn't really say much about either way, but when she performed "I Still Miss Someone" at the Johnny Cash tribute, looked BEAUTIFUL to me. Sometimes the tremendous inner talent can elevate an unremarkable physical beauty.

Clem Snide's cover of Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful" is, well, beautiful. Definitely recommended.

Exactly. Hiding behind the "pop music is supposed to be fun, stop complaining!" argument is like defending a Michael Bay film by saying, "It's just supposed to be dumb action, roll with it!" Well, guess what. Action movies can be great and not stupid at the same time. And pop music can be fun without being retarded.

As for a 4-minute pop song being different than a 90-minute movie...of course it is. I've never had a 90-minute movie stuck in my head all afternoon.