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This is a Ghost Town

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
It's always sort of a surprise to see the number of viewers in this part of the forums. This RPG/Board Game corner is such a ghost town, I wonder what Chewers come in here looking for? Nostalgia? For someone else to start a meaningful discussion?

How many of you all are former RPG players? How many of you still play? How many of you never played, but are curious -- or at least don't regard RPG players as intolerable asswipes?

I'm a gamer. Have been, still am. I play paper RPGs (as well as EVE Online and WoW, etc.) to this day, and believe that they can be great creative toys when people approach them without the jackassery of obsessive spazism. (I say this as a reformed spaz myself.)

I work full-time in the paper game business. I write and develop books for the World of Darkness and Vampire: The Requiem, here at White Wolf Games. But we're not sweaty fundies with Cheetos in our beards and mustard stains on our fiery-dragon-emblazoned black t-shirts. (You know, Devin looks kind of like the Type A GenCon attendee...) We bathe. We talk to real live people. We enjoy RPGs without having them take over our whole identity.

What about you? What are you? What're you doing here?

Cheers,
Will
post #2 of 25
I played D&D one time, when I was in middle school; I could never get into it. And computer role-playing games are too complicated and time-consuming for me.

Anyway, what am I doing here? I saw the thread topic and thought it was going to be about the song "Ghost Town" by The Specials.

I love that song.
post #3 of 25
Most of the gamers here seem to be video gamers. Not a lot of us pen-and-paper guys around. Maybe it's because the conversation will inevitably turn to what our 9th level paladin did this week, and that may be too geeky even for this crowd.

I have a pretty regular Saturday night game I got into about a year ago. I hadn't had a regular game in a while and I found I really missed it. We rotate games and GMs so we don't sick of any particular game and so the GMs get a chance to play too. We've rotated through Mutants and Masterminds and 7th Sea and are now moving on to Deadlands, with the occasional one-shot adventure and board game night thrown in as well. I'm looking forward to the Deadlands game, since the GM is going to run it as a Spaghetti Western at first and then slowly add in the supernatural aspects over time. We've got a really imaginative group of players and GMs -- one GM goes so far as to distress his maps so they look old and weather-beaten, and he even built a scale model of our ship in our 7th Sea campaign.

I think part of the fun of these kind of games is the shared reality of it. Our group does a fairly good job of staying in character. It's almost an improv workshop at times.

We're also frustrated game writers/designers, so any tips or advice from a pro would be appreciated!
post #4 of 25
Role=Playing is among my many occasional hobbies.
post #5 of 25
My friends and I were very heavily into RPG's for many, many years. I think it's a great hobby for creative types, especially. Unfortunately, as we grew older, and jobs became more time-intensive, and some of us began to produce spawn, the regular time commitment demanded by RPG's was hard to maintain. Some of us were still trying to pretend it was still happening while canceling on us every three weeks out of five. Two of us finally called time of death, and announced it wasn't worth it anymore. So we play a lot of board games now.

It's been a couple of years now, and I still own my big bookshelf full of roleplaying game books. I look at it now and think about eBay. I still find it kind of hard to part with them, though.

I should point out that if one has any pretensions to becoming a writer, playing RPG's can be a massive suck of your time and creative energy. I'm doing much more writing since giving them up.
post #6 of 25
You open a sealed chest and are attacked by magick missile
post #7 of 25
My friends and I used to play "Heroes Unlimited" pretty regularly a few years back, but then, like Greg David said, life kind of got in the way. We're getting the group (dubbed the Brown County Avengers...I know, I know) together for one last epic day-long session in about two weeks, so that should be fun.
post #8 of 25
I spent a lot of years deep into the RPG thing. Mostly the old DC Heroes game and one of our own design. I look back on those times with incredible fondness and hope my kids get to experience anything near the creative outlet they afforded me.

Speaking of White Wolf...my first CD was inspired by Vampire: the Masquerade. Played a LOT of gigs in the guise of "The Storyteller" over the years. Haven't kept up with it since the mid-to-late 90s, but you guys put out a bitchin product back then.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors

Anyway, what am I doing here? I saw the thread topic and thought it was going to be about the song "Ghost Town" by The Specials.

I love that song.

Me too.

I was (am!) a nerd-girl and used to play D&D a bit when I was younger. Now I stick to games like Neverwinter Nights and whatnot when the mood strikes.
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors
I saw the thread topic and thought it was going to be about the song "Ghost Town" by The Specials.

I love that song.
You are not alone.
post #11 of 25
Back in the day I played a fair amount of pencil/paper RPGs including, but limited to, D&D, AD&D, the DC comics superhero game, the Marvel superhero game, the 1st edition Star Wars RPG, the Mechwarrior RPG, some TMNT/mutant RPG, and a few others I don't well remember.

The ones I played the most (in order) were probably:
AD&D
Star Wars
Mechwarrior
DC Superheroes

Every once in a while a group of us tries to get something started (AD&D), but we don't have a dedicated DM, and we are all pretty busy. It can be hard to find an entire day where you can do nothing by play a pencil and paper RPG.

I switched over to mostly videogames now, with the occasional board game when the correct people are around.

I did play Everquest for a bit, but once again, I just don't have the free time for things like that anymore.
post #12 of 25
I loved DC Heroes (assuming you're talking about the Mayfair game). That AP system was awesome. It kind of cheated characters closer to the human norm, but who wanted to play them anyway?

West End's Star Wars (D6 system) is an old favorite as well. It played extremely quickly, and the made for very fast-paced battles, as Star Wars should be. It's probably the best simulation of a movie genre in game rules I've ever played.

The game I most recently fell in love with, and never got a chance to play properly, was the 2nd edition of Mutants & Masterminds. They actually managed to turn the D20 system into something fun, which I would have bet money couldn't be done.
post #13 of 25
Never had much interest in RPGs, but I was a big Axis & Allies junkie back in high school. Haven't had the occasion to play in years though.
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
I loved DC Heroes (assuming you're talking about the Mayfair game). That AP system was awesome. It kind of cheated characters closer to the human norm, but who wanted to play them anyway?
Yeah, that is the one! I couldn't remember the exact name, but it was the AP system. It was the most fun character creation I think I ever had with an RPG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
West End's Star Wars (D6 system) is an old favorite as well. It played extremely quickly, and the made for very fast-paced battles, as Star Wars should be. It's probably the best simulation of a movie genre in game rules I've ever played.
Agreed again! Fun and easy to get into (without really sacrificing anything). When they released the newer editions, they messed up a few things (imo), so we stuck with 1st edition rules forever.

[/QUOTE]The game I most recently fell in love with, and never got a chance to play properly, was the 2nd edition of Mutants & Masterminds. They actually managed to turn the D20 system into something fun, which I would have bet money couldn't be done.[/QUOTE]

Never heard of it, but maybe I'll have to check it out this summer. It is easier for beginners than AD&D? The problem with my group is that we have some rookies, and slogging through all the rules can be time consuming, but if we found a nice, simpler, fun RPG... well, I might just be able to us going at least every once in a while... actually, now that I think of it, DC Heroes or Star Wars 1st edition might be a good option...
post #15 of 25
It's significantly easier to jump into than D&D, in every way except possibly character creation. Like most superhero systems, it's point-based, so it requires a certain amount of time to balance a character. It's nothing on the order of Champions or anything. I used to spend on hours on characters for that game.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
It's significantly easier to jump into than D&D, in every way except possibly character creation. Like most superhero systems, it's point-based, so it requires a certain amount of time to balance a character. It's nothing on the order of Champions or anything. I used to spend on hours on characters for that game.
Thanks for the quick response.

I love a good character creation system... that is half the fun!
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
West End's Star Wars (D6 system) is an old favorite as well. It played extremely quickly, and the made for very fast-paced battles, as Star Wars should be. It's probably the best simulation of a movie genre in game rules I've ever played.
I remember this game having one of the best rules ever: basically, characters never run out of ammo -- until it's dramatically appropriate for them to do so. Nicely captures the cinematic flavor in one sentence.

Quote:
The game I most recently fell in love with, and never got a chance to play properly, was the 2nd edition of Mutants & Masterminds. They actually managed to turn the D20 system into something fun, which I would have bet money couldn't be done.
I've played in two fairly lengthy M&M games, and it was a blast. They scaled it well so that you feel like your powers really do something without turning you into an unstoppable colossus.
post #18 of 25
I don't keep up with this stuff much but....are paper RPGs dying out? Their popularity must surely be on the decline, right?

I used to play back in jr. high-high school, and while I wouldn't say I played a lot, I will say I have very fond memories of being that creative with my closest friends. In many ways it mirrors the fun I had making short films and stupid videos with the same folks. As I get older, I'm beginning to really miss having all that quality goof-off time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
West End's Star Wars (D6 system) is an old favorite as well. It played extremely quickly, and the made for very fast-paced battles, as Star Wars should be. It's probably the best simulation of a movie genre in game rules I've ever played.
Wow, glad to see that one get some love. My friends and I played a ton of that back in the day. Simple rules and a universe everyone at least has a basic understanding of. We'd do 'normal' campaigns and then do a bullshit in-your-dreams scenario (like pitting our characters against Vader, Boba Fett, and crew on a sail barge over Sarlacc Pit) every once in awhile.

My high school buddies were very into Robotech RPG, which I gave a shot but just found to be too technical for my tastes. It seemed to be more of a battle sim than a true RPG.

I also had West End Games' Ghostbusters RPG and played it almost as much as Star Wars. Same easy rules as SW. You could even play as the film characters. The game didn't take itself too seriously (Venkman's 'goal' on his character card was 'Sex.' Egon's was 'Soulless Science,' I believe) and was out before Ghostbusters II, so slime blowers and Bobby Brown were nowhere to be found.
post #19 of 25
That Star Wars system sounds awfully familiar...

Since you're all probably dying to hear my RPG progression, here it goes: I played Beginner's D&D (oddly, the first set I had) and then later AD&D, but by the time I reached Junior High/HS on-line text based MUDS essentially eclipsed them. We'd just meet on-line. Then, later, CPRGs replaced text-based MUDS. If we wanted a real life game, there was *shudder* Magic the Gathering.

I dabbled with MMORPGs, but by the time they came around I was too busy with other things.

I still have the rule system and campaigns I invented somewhere in my garage, I'll have to dig them out one of these days.
post #20 of 25
My local paper happen to do a huge article on table-top gaming. It kinda made miss the days when I used to do it - but I just don't have the time anymore. Reading the lingo of the players both brought me back and made me laugh - so I thought I'd post it here.

Quote:
Tabletop warriors rage on without youth
Thursday, May 03, 2007
Leila Atassi
Plain Dealer Reporter

You will never find the Battle of the Mill mentioned in the index of any history book. It lasted only four hours, and the soldiers were less than an inch tall.

But know that carnage visited those rolling hills, where a stream quietly wound through a green felt landscape, between tiny trees and giant cartons of Szechwan beef and wonton soup.

In a back room of the Warzone Matrix hobby shop on Rocky River Drive in Cleveland, members of the Northern Ohio Wargaming Society gathered on a typical Friday night -- to march and mow down hundreds of tiny hand-painted pewter soldiers across a tabletop terrain.

About a dozen middle-aged men, dressed in standard-issue T-shirts, jeans and hoodies, skirmished in groups of two to four, talking smack between dice rolls and mouthfuls of fried rice.

But more obvious than the lingering smell of soy sauce was the dearth of young faces -- a trend that the war-gaming community has been struggling to reverse since video and computer games started capturing the attention of young gamers.

War-gaming, once played by military commanders to predict the outcome of battle, evolved into a pastime made popular by writer H.G. Wells, who was among the first to draft official rules in the early 20th century.

The hobby experienced its Golden Age in the 1970s, during which the Northern Ohio Wargaming Society emerged, boasting a membership of more than 100 history buffs, military veterans, young professionals and college students.

The group's yearly public gaming convention once drew more than 200 attendees.

But now, whittled to fewer than 50 members, the war-gaming group worries that the hobby and its culture are fighting a losing battle against computer games that have become increasingly sophisticated and allow gamers to challenge opponents across the globe in real time.

Electronic war games distill complicated rules, keep records and cost far less than the thousands of dollars traditional war-gamers sink into pewter miniatures, paint, landscape and trimmings.

Chris Wilson, owner of the Warzone Matrix, said that within the last 10 years, five local hobby shops catering to the war-gaming community have closed their doors, leaving the Cleveland area with only three.

"We don't have to undercut each other to prove a point anymore," Wilson said. "In fact, we'll yell at people who buy on eBay instead of going to one of our competitors who could offer them a good deal. We just want to keep our industry alive."

Although hobby shops carry prepainted miniatures to make play easier on those who just want to try it out, the pieces are expensive. An entire army can cost upwards of $300, with each miniature running between $1 and $3. Many gamers own multiple armies.

Matt Wilson, who at 19 is the youngest in the Friday night group, said he and seven of his buddies sometimes get together to play with armies borrowed from older war-gamers.

"There's no way I can play this all the time," Wilson said, picking through a toolbox of pewter soldiers. "It's way too expensive. Maybe after college I'll buy my own army."

In the meantime, he plays video games.

Peter Adkinson, chief executive officer of Gen-Con, a national gaming convention that attracts about 30,000 gamers to Indianapolis every summer, said that video games have sapped the popularity of traditional war games among young people.

But the biggest reason for the decline in war-gaming, he said, is that kids generally are not interested in military history. They opt instead to play card games like Magic or Pokémon, and the tabletop miniatures games they usually are attracted to are based on fantasy or science fiction.

"It used to be that men riding around on horses was exciting for kids until tanks came along," Adkinson said. "Now you have wizards and Orcs. And the companies that make war games are having difficulty staying relevant to a demographic that is not interested in World War II or Napoleonics."

Since many of the fantasy and card games have become mainstream, big-box stores and chain bookstores have begun carrying the supplies, compounding the problem for mom-and-pop hobby shops with limited buying power, Adkinson said.

Even Gen-Con, which began 40 years ago when a group of guys got together to play traditional war games, has had to evolve to stay alive. The convention now offers something for everyone in the gaming community - from fantasy, to cards, to video games.

War-gaming veterans, who jokingly define themselves as a dying breed of middle-aged, overweight guys, say they try to get their children interested in tabletop gaming at a young age.

"But with all the other demands on their time and their sudden discovery of the opposite sex, it's hard to keep them captivated past puberty," said Carl Scheu, president of the Northern Ohio Wargaming Society.

But the gamers aren't waving the white flag just yet.

Devoted players say the game is one big interactive history lesson. Investing in an army, painting it and playing well means researching battle strategies, uniforms, coats of arms and the civilizations they represented.

And unlike video games, they argue, war-gaming is a social experience.

By 9 p.m. in the back room of the Warzone Matrix, a series of miniature battlefields were alive with combat, and the gamers were in rare form.

Between rolls, Confederate generals, speaking in unconvincing southern accents, uttered fighting words to their Union counterparts. On an adjacent tabletop, an army of Gauls challenged the Anglo-Normans - two ancient armies separated by centuries of history.

"You better tell your Anglo soldiers to go change their armor," shouted Wayne Carter, rolling the dice to nearly seal a victory over opponent Bill Litvak. "Now let's wrap this up and get home in time to catch some 'Battlestar Galactica' reruns or something."
post #21 of 25
Quote:
You will never find the Battle of the Mill mentioned in the index of any history book
That's one of the things that drew me to the games....the stories of the sessions and scenes that somehow rose above the gameplay to become touchstones for the players. I suppose that's part of the reason these things had such a high geek factor...few things are geekier than two players talkin about their DC Heroes game

And then we fought Black Diamond, and I had Sumo blow up to maximum weight, but since I have the Gymnastics skill, when I jumped on him I added a half-gainer

okay...yeah....that's too geekified to even contemplate this early in the morning. But I still can share those stories and listen to my buddies' new ones on those rare occasions we get together.
post #22 of 25
Some of our game sessions have inspired jargon in our regular conversations. For example, we were playing Deadlands and there was drunk NPC on a train we were traveling on. When the train started up, he shouted, "Whooo! Train ride!!!" Which has now become our phrase of choice whenever things get boisterous (or, used sarcastically, when things are decidedly NOT boisterous).
post #23 of 25
For the better part of a year I've been playing in Age of Worms, the last Dungeon magazine super-arc. A little too streamlined for my taste, but it's got some tough battles, and it'll be the first time I've gotten a mage up to 20th level.
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Some of our game sessions have inspired jargon in our regular conversations. For example, we were playing Deadlands and there was drunk NPC on a train we were traveling on. When the train started up, he shouted, "Whooo! Train ride!!!" Which has now become our phrase of choice whenever things get boisterous (or, used sarcastically, when things are decidedly NOT boisterous).
Whenever somebody tries to claim that they can pull something off that the rest of us consider ridiculous, the catch phrase is "Come on, we can kill that troll". It's an ugly story.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
But the biggest reason for the decline in war-gaming, he said, is that kids generally are not interested in military history. They opt instead to play card games like Magic or Pokémon, and the tabletop miniatures games they usually are attracted to are based on fantasy or science fiction.

"It used to be that men riding around on horses was exciting for kids until tanks came along," Adkinson said. "Now you have wizards and Orcs. And the companies that make war games are having difficulty staying relevant to a demographic that is not interested in World War II or Napoleonics."
Bah humbug. Growing up I would have taken a Stalingrad game over warlocks and fairies anyday.

Quote:
"But with all the other demands on their time and their sudden discovery of the opposite sex, it's hard to keep them captivated past puberty," said Carl Scheu, president of the Northern Ohio Wargaming Society.
Oops. Embarrassing revelation there.

I don't understand why all these expensive pewter figures are described as necessary. In the games I remember playing you just used these little cardboard squares to represent units.
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