CHUD NUMBERS: Box Office Discussion Thread - Page 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc 

But let's get back to the subject of the Avengers and how over blown people are getting about Whedon.  It's like the guy invented the super hero movie.  I for one hope that Brad Bird gets a crack at Avengers 2.  

Whedon was a gun-for-hire who did what his Masters upstairs told him to do.

By no means was this a case of a director with a vision in this genre who pushed like Hell to get his way and won a la Nolan, Raimi, Singer, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

I think DKR will have a slow crawl to $200m. Along with the lack of Heath-hype, I think people are pretty much done with Nolan's Batman.

I feel the same way. When I was watching that TDKR, I feel like Nolan's Batman has in a way passed its prime, especially in the face of a true superhero event movie like The Avengers. It's like people in the room are comfortable in their colorful costumes and speaking Whedonism, and all of a sudden an ultra-serious man dressed in a bat walks in and demands you to feel his pathos. It just doesn't feel the same way back when TDK came out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

I think DKR will have a slow crawl to $200m. Along with the lack of Heath-hype, I think people are pretty much done with Nolan's Batman.

Oh I get it, you are making a joke.  Good one, you almost got me. 

But hey, glad to see the posts about the 3D price inflation.  Oh, wait, never mind.   I guess that  only happens when Cameron is involved.

I don't think Batman will do 200mil it's opening weekend, it doesn't have 3D prices to help out, plus, it doesn't appeal to the age the Avengers does.

I think it will open to 165, and then Nikki Finke will headline Sunday nights article with BATBOMB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie 

 

Whedon was a gun-for-hire who did what his Masters upstairs told him to do.

 

By no means was this a case of a director with a vision in this genre who pushed like Hell to get his way and won a la Nolan, Raimi, Singer, etc.

What vision?  There's not one original thought or scene in this movie.   This isn't a vision like Nolan had with Batman.  He just did a good job of creating a fun popcorn movie.  There's nothing deep or intelligent about it.  It's simply a action super hero movie.  

I think you're arguing with him to agree with him. That's weird. By the by, I'll have a little more respect for the man and not simply dismiss him as a "hired gun". No, it isn't Earth-shattering, but the film is riddled with his personality and his appreciation of this kind of material. It works because he knew how to pull it together.

And let's call a spade a spade, the opening the Avengers did has nothing to do with Whedon as the director.  First weeks are dictated by the property.  Pop culture status, previous films, and the marketing.  The quality of the film doesn't play out until the following weeks.  This movie will have a strong 2nd and 3rd weeks because it is getting good word of mouth.

Whedonisms, did someone just say that.  Jesus Fucking Christ

God forbid that it disappoints. Along with last summer's GL disaster, another slow performer might set the DC staple back a few years.

Regardless of the number, my only point was that there now exists a certain Nolan-Bat malaise which didn't exist in 2008. Along with the lack of Heath-hype, I think we're gonna be looking at Batman Begins numbers. At best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anger Management 

 

I feel the same way. When I was watching that TDKR, I feel like Nolan's Batman has in a way passed its prime, especially in the face of a true superhero event movie like The Avengers. It's like people in the room are comfortable in their colorful costumes and speaking Whedonism, and all of a sudden an ultra-serious man dressed in a bat walks in and demands you to feel his pathos. It just doesn't feel the same way back when TDK came out.

It's totally different movies.  In tone and style.  The Dark Knight is for lack of a better word a darker world.  It's not poppy and fun like the Avengers.  All because the Avengers is doing well people aren't going to shun TDKR because all of a sudden it's too dark.  That makes zero sense.  This is the end to arguably the greatest super hero trilogy ever made.  It's going to do massive business, but not as much as Avengers because it's subject matter isn't as accessible to the masses like the Avengers or Avatar's of the world.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

God forbid that it disappoints. Along with last summer's GL disaster, another big drop-off might set the DC staple back a few years.

 

Regardless of the number, my only point was that there exists a certain Nolan-Bat malaise (which didn't exist in 2008). Along with the lack of Heath-hype, I think we're gonna be looking at Batman Begins numbers. At best.

You a betting man?  14 days and it will make more then BB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

God forbid that it disappoints. Along with last summer's GL disaster, another slow performer might set the DC staple back a few years.

 

Regardless of the number, my only point was that there now exists a certain Nolan-Bat malaise which didn't exist in 2008. Along with the lack of Heath-hype, I think we're gonna be looking at Batman Begins numbers. At best.

You're on crack.   It'll do the entire BB run it's first weekend.  

Jesus. Settle down, new guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

You a betting man?  14 days and it will make more then BB.

If it does that kinda number - I'll owe you one rep with a smiley face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

God forbid that it disappoints. Along with last summer's GL disaster, another slow performer might set the DC staple back a few years.

 

Regardless of the number, my only point was that there now exists a certain Nolan-Bat malaise which didn't exist in 2008. Along with the lack of Heath-hype, I think we're gonna be looking at Batman Begins numbers. At best.

Batman Begins 

Total Domestic Gross: $205,343,774

I know crack is one of the hardest, most addictive drugs ever made, but really AD...just say no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc 

 

It's totally different movies.  In tone and style.  The Dark Knight is for lack of a better word a darker world.  It's not poppy and fun like the Avengers.  All because the Avengers is doing well people aren't going to shun TDKR because all of a sudden it's too dark.  That makes zero sense.  This is the end to arguably the greatest super hero trilogy ever made.  It's going to do massive business, but not as much as Avengers because it's subject matter isn't as accessible to the masses like the Avengers or Avatar's of the world.  

This.

People flocked to the fun, family-friendlier Iron Man at start of May...and then turned around and went to the darker, edgier Dark Knight at the end of July. Both were seen by families/little kids by the masses and multiple times. Why is it suddenly not going to happen again?

Batman Begins numbers at best?

I'm generally not into playing the box-office prognostication game, but that sounds like crazy talk to me!

Jesus. Settle down, new guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

You a betting man?  14 days and it will make more then BB.

If it does that kinda number - I'll owe you one rep with a smiley face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

Jesus. Settle down, new guy.

 

 

If it does that kinda number - I'll owe you one rep with a smiley face.

Going to hold you to it. 

I want TWO smiley faces BTW. 

I always believed The Avengers would end up making more (like it really matters to us), due to the 3D inflation, as well as having two films just last year that serve as sequels.  Last time Batman was in the publics eye was in what, 2008?  But all things considered, Batman is tracking rather well, with only the Avengers doing better.  The Hunger Games, which had a huge opening as well as great numbers, was tracking less in overall awareness then the Dark Knight Rises, and this was right before THG release, and TDKR has nearly two more months to go. 

You're on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

I think you're arguing with him to agree with him. That's weird. By the by, I'll have a little more respect for the man and not simply dismiss him as a "hired gun". No, it isn't Earth-shattering, but the film is riddled with his personality and his appreciation of this kind of material. It works because he knew how to pull it together.

I don't know his personality, so I don't know what that even means.  Because he can write a witty joke?  The first Iron Man was filled with it that and he didn't write it.  Look I appreciate what he did here, but he didn't do anything that hasn't been done, nor is there nothing of a "signature style" like other big directors have.  The "visionary" word is used way too often these days is all.

It means just what I said.

I'm not even really a fan of Whedon's but I can still recognize that you can't just switch him out for someone else and get the same result. As for him being a "visionary", I don't believe I indicated that I felt that way, which I don't. The Avengers is not the work of an auteur, it's the work of a guy who knew what the fuck he was doing and was given the resources to do so, so it got done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

If by "opening weekend" you mean the first two weeks of it's release, then yes.

I just meant that the opening weekend should be big enough that 200 is a certainty no matter what kind of drop-off may happen in the following weeks.  I don't think it'll play like The Dark Knight, but if it ends up inching towards a big round number, I'd guess it starts with at least a three.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

It means just what I said.

 

I'm not even really a fan of Whedon's but I can still recognize that you can't just switch him out for someone else and get the same result. As for him being a "visionary", I don't believe I indicated that I felt that way, which I don't. The Avengers is not the work of an auteur, it's the work of a guy who knew what the fuck he was doing and was given the resources to do so, so it got done.

That's fair.

Please ignore me. I'm clearly having an off day on the boards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

Please ignore me. I'm clearly having an off day on the boards.

You're WRONG, Art.  You're NOT having an off day!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

Please ignore me. I'm clearly having an off day on the boards.

Meh. Everyone has em. No biggie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc 

 

I don't know his personality, so I don't know what that even means.  Because he can write a witty joke?  The first Iron Man was filled with it that and he didn't write it.  Look I appreciate what he did here, but he didn't do anything that hasn't been done, nor is there nothing of a "signature style" like other big directors have.  The "visionary" word is used way too often these days is all.

So you think they could've inserted a generic director and the movie will not only turn out the same quality-wise, but it will also gross 200 mil OW on the strength of other MCU movies? I think you give Joss Whedon way too little credit for his success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

Please ignore me. I'm clearly having an off day on the boards.

just count your lucky stars that Morgan Freeman isn't as angry as Samuel L Jackson.  Otherwise, he'd be contacting your work and telling your boss to fire you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

I think DKR will have a slow crawl to $200m. Along with the lack of Heath-hype, I think people are pretty much done with Nolan's Batman.

You are joking, right? (Written before I saw the responses.)

TDKR's doing $180m OW, minimum.  The only reason it might not match Avengers is because of the lack of 3D surcharge.  People need to remember that of the six major Batman films, four of them have beaten the opening weekend record.

If any film stands a legit shot at $200M opening weekend without 3D, its Dark Knight Rises.

Late July release date (Kids are out of school), following two incredibly popular earlier installments (The last of which broke records left and right and was the zeitgeist film arguably of the last decade), marketing campaign promising "The Final Film" including the possibility (though it screams marketing misdirection) of Batman dying, its director making a name for himself in his own right away from the Bat (Inception) and the last two trailers full of asses-in-seat guaranteeing money-shots reportedly to the same huge reactions from audiences this weekend during Avengers as the now-legendary Hulk v. Loki fight. Might not match Avengers' 3-day but it will, at the very least, get damn close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anger Management 

 

So you think they could've inserted a generic director and the movie will not only turn out the same quality-wise, but it will also gross 200 mil OW on the strength of other MCU movies? I think you give Joss Whedon way too little credit for his success.

That's not what I'm saying.  Of course not.  I give him credit for making a good super hero movie, and as we all know it's not easy to do.  It's not great, but it's enjoyable time at the movies.  

I really don't understand all of this DC vs Marvel/Batman vs Avengers stuff. These are two different properties that will do well for different reasons. There is room at the cinema for more than one type of superhero movie.

Arguing over how many hundreds of millions of dollars is ridiculous to me as well. It will make tons of money. Batman is one of the most popular superheroes of all time. More known to the genral public than anyone of the Avengers. Nolan, himself, has a fan base that will be drawn in. People can crap on The Dark Knight all they want but there are way more people in this world that still love and respect the film. Even if Ledger's performance drew people in at first, it would not have made as much money as it did if wasn't as good as it turned out to be. It wont have any competition to take away from in by that point in the summer. The Expendables and Gi Joe wont effect DKR that much.

Joss Whedon's character development, sense of humor and respect for female characters is written all of this movie. So, he was not just a hired hand that did what he was told. He has a handle on these characters and these actors. He delivered a very fun night at the movies. I never go and watch movies at the cinema more than once if I can help it but I would do it for The Avengers. It was just that entertaining. For those that didn't like it or thought it was merely okay, I don't what to tell you. Your not wrong, since it's your opinion obviously. But, I don't know how else this film could have delivered more than it did.

It's like I live in a world where you can only choose one movie or something. If people want to see Dark Knight, they want to see Dark Knight. Having another superhero, different in tone, has nothing to do with it.

Well this is the thread for box office, so we argue about the money.  People who are right get prestigious no-prizes, after all.  But there aren't really many "Marvel vs. DC" fanboy types here.

I knew someone was going to jump on my box office comment. I know what we are all doing here. I'm just saying that some are making it seem like no matter how much it makes, it will be a failure. DKR doesn't have the Ledger component to make it one of the biggest movies of all time but it will be the second biggest movie of the summer. If not in fighting ditsance with Spiderman. But they are both poised to make record breaking numbers. I don't even see why that in itself is in question.

And when I wasn't saying that there are a bunch of Marvel vs DC fanboys per se. That was a general internet based comment. I don't understand it just as much as I don't understand the odd battle some are getting into in terms of the money drawing power of both movies. I just don't see why it has to be a either or thing. We get Avengers, then Spiderman, and end with Dark Knight. They will all make money on par with each other. I think Avengers will make the most because it's the most audience friendly and it has less competition for a while but Spiderman and Dark Knight will be right up there for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

Gina Carrano. Yes. Get outta my brain.

 

Throughout the entire running time of Haywire, all I was thinking was "Yup, that's Wonder Woman".

After John Carter, I'm still pulling for Lynn Collins.

And I remember a lot of folks swearing up and down there was no way Avengers was going to outdo The Hunger Games at the box office.  Anyone who says they're certain of anything is performing without a net.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

 

After John Carter, I'm still pulling for Lynn Collins.

Oh GOD yes.  We KNOW she can play royalty.

The Dark Shape, Another Reason...The Dark Knight Rises, might not...Reach the box office heights you are speculating about is...The Amazing Spider-Man, might take the top spot...3 weeks in a row!

 If Warner's were smart, they would put Bruce Timm in charge of the Live action DCU. But that ain't gonna happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art Decade 

I would't be surprised if WB execs are presently mulling an extended DCU tag for MoS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

 

After John Carter, I'm still pulling for Lynn Collins.

 

And I remember a lot of folks swearing up and down there was no way Avengers was going to outdo The Hunger Games at the box office.  Anyone who says they're certain of anything is performing without a net.

The Dark Knight Rises will outgross Breaking Dawn Pt 2.

Boom.

That's about the only thing I'm certain of.

Outside of the Geek Spheroid (and I'm venturing far to obtain these reports):

TDKR looks kind of silly. Bane is proving to be a liability with the movie-going public, whereas the Joker was a massive plus. That silly shit with the earthquake in the fake football arena has played very badly, and is still the single most identifiable scene with this movie. It plays bad. Ask some regular people.

The Avengers? Shit, I don't know, still haven't seen it. Next Saturday, I'll be there! 

Amazing how the 'regular people' always have the same opinion as the geek poster, eh?

The "Batman malaise" seems to be an internet forum problem because people have had to discuss the film and nitpick every bit of it for four years. Regular everyday people see the trailers for TDKR and go, "Oh yeah, The Dark Knight, that movie was awesome the one or two times I saw it. Of course I'll see the last one." It'll open big, probably short of the The Avengers, but still very big.

So it seems Nikki was right about Disney being conservative about the final OW figure. Estimates for Sunday at around 56-61m, which means 200m just became 200+. YIKES.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhukov 

Outside of the Geek Spheroid (and I'm venturing far to obtain these reports):

TDKR looks kind of silly. Bane is proving to be a liability with the movie-going public, whereas the Joker was a massive plus. That silly shit with the earthquake in the fake football arena has played very badly, and is still the single most identifiable scene with this movie. It plays bad. Ask some regular people.

The Avengers? Shit, I don't know, still haven't seen it. Next Saturday, I'll be there! 

Well, we aren't sure how Bane plays.  He could be a kick-ass character.  The problem is nobody knows him.  He doesn't have a mainstream audience like the other villains.  If he's good the word will spread and it'll have tremendous legs.  It's hard to sell a property that nobody knows about on that first week.  I hate to keep bringing it up but who the hell thought Avatar would gross 2.7B based on the trailers?   Nobody knew what to make of it and most had it failing hard.  Again, if the movie and bane works it'll be huge.  No matter what it'll make up it's production budget in it's first week.  After that it's all about the content.  I know this...I wouldn't bet against Nolan.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc 

Well, we aren't sure how Bane plays.  He could be a kick-ass character.  The problem is nobody knows him.  He doesn't have a mainstream audience like the other villains.

 

Not sure if you know how buzz works. At this point before TDK, due in part to the untimely demise of Heath Ledger, everyone knew how awesome the Joker was. Everyone. It wasn't just speculation on geek message boards and comment threads, there was open discussion about Ledger getting so in to the role that it drove him to pills on CNN. 

Bane could be fantastic. I'm sure Hardy will make him interesting and intimidating. But online the buzz is that he is hard to understand (or no he isn't!), and offline there is no buzz.

Who cares whot he hell the villian is. Everyday people who just watch the comic movies and don't read comics don't know who most of the villians are in a comic book movie. How many people knew or cared about Loki before Thor or during The Avengers? How many people really gave a damn about Loki after Thor itself? People had major doubts about beign the main villian in Avegers BECAUSE of Thor but it didn't stop people from going to the movie. Now, after seing it, most are very pleased with him and Loki is just another positive in a great movie (IMO). The villan COULD be a selling point but it doesn't have to be detraction either. The most people complain about is Bane's voice in the trailer and they fixed that. I'm sure the thought of not being able to understand Bane was the only thing that made Bane a negative to the regular viewing public.

I've never heard anyone personally who decided to not go see a superhero movie because they didn't know the villian. In most cases, the super heroes are always the selling point. Dark Knight is the rarity where the villians became a even bigger word of mouth but that not being the case now is not some huge blow to the product.

This is the end of a trilogy and people are going to want to see this because they loved the product thus far and/or they want to see how it ends.

Also, Nolan is one of the few directors in this world where his name alone has box office clout.

Really, as character, all Bane needs to do is not be a something that takes away from the movie. That's all. The Dark Knight franchise is a well oiled machine at this point.

Some of you buys are crazy! I saw 4 previews before my sold out showing of The Avengers. During Brave, The Expendables, and Spider-Man, there was the usual pre-movie talking, laughing, moving around, opening of candy, getting settled, etc....When The Dark Knight Rises preview started, you could hear a pin drop in there.

I think some of you are seriously underestimating the BATMAN brand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeI 

 

Not sure if you know how buzz works. At this point before TDK, due in part to the untimely demise of Heath Ledger, everyone knew how awesome the Joker was. Everyone. It wasn't just speculation on geek message boards and comment threads, there was open discussion about Ledger getting so in to the role that it drove him to pills on CNN. 

 

Bane could be fantastic. I'm sure Hardy will make him interesting and intimidating. But online the buzz is that he is hard to understand (or no he isn't!), and offline there is no buzz.

There's no buzz on Bane yet because the movie hasn't even opened.  It's going to have a monster opening weekend for sure, after that it depends on if the movie is good or not.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racj82 

Who cares whot he hell the villain is. Everyday people who just watch the comic movies and don't read comics don't know who most of the villains are in a comic book movie. How many people knew or cared about Loki before Thor or during The Avengers? How many people really gave a damn about Loki after Thor itself? People had major doubts about beign the main villian in Avegers BECAUSE of Thor but it didn't stop people from going to the movie. Now, after seing it, most are very pleased with him and Loki is just another positive in a great movie (IMO). The villan COULD be a selling point but it doesn't have to be detraction either. The most people complain about is Bane's voice in the trailer and they fixed that. I'm sure the thought of not being able to understand Bane was the only thing that made Bane a negative to the regular viewing public.

 

I've never heard anyone personally who decided to not go see a superhero movie because they didn't know the villian. In most cases, the super heroes are always the selling point. Dark Knight is the rarity where the villains became a even bigger word of mouth but that not being the case now is not some huge blow to the product.

 

This is the end of a trilogy and people are going to want to see this because they loved the product thus far and/or they want to see how it ends.

 

Also, Nolan is one of the few directors in this world where his name alone has box office clout.

 

Really, as character, all Bane needs to do is not be a something that takes away from the movie. That's all. The Dark Knight franchise is a well oiled machine at this point.

Every super hero is different.  Batman is a pretty bland character.   The Villains are the star of that series.  Iron Man RDJ is the star, so it doesn't have to rely on Villains.  If Christian Bale stopped playing Batman would anyone care?  Not the same with RDJ.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by cccc 

There's no buzz on Bane yet because the movie hasn't even opened.

You're missing his point.  With TDK, there was already buzz on the Joker, which in large part helped fuel the big opening weekend and a lot of the early momentum the film had.  People simply aren't that excited about Bane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

 

You're missing his point.  With TDK, there was already buzz on the Joker, which in large part helped fuel the big opening weekend and a lot of the early momentum the film had.  People simply aren't that excited about Bane.

Because he's an unknown villain!  How can you get excited about something you have no clue about.  Where's there this huge buzz before Avatar opened?  It only opened to 67M then the buzz spread.

Again, the Joker is iconic everyone knows who he is, and of course Ledger death and final movie heightened that buzz.