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Akira Kurosawa Film Appreciation Thread

post #1 of 56
Thread Starter 
I don't know if theres already a thread discussing this (the asian films seem a little too all encompasing)

But I saw Ikiru after being a long time Kurosawa Samurai filmfreak and I was genuinely surprised.

Some people say he may be the greatest, if not one of the reatest directors of all time. You think this is warranted?

Honestly, one of my favorite of his films is the one he was working on at the time of his death, The Sea is Watching. (He had screenplays and sketches, it was directed by Kei Kumai, but is definately Kurosawa through and through) I thought it was unusual coming from Kurosawa, but after Ikiru, I was finally in awe of his range.

How far would you saw his influence extends over film making today? Not just the spaghettie western remakes, but into modern cinema?

And what are your favorite films? I appreciate his more cenceptual work like Ran, Throne of Blood, and now Ikiru and The Sea is Watching.

Not to mean I don't love the classics like Seven Samurai, Hidden Fortress and Yojimbo.

So please, lets discuss Akira Kurosawa, his folms, and those based off his movies. (And someone inform me about the Seven Samurai remake?!!)

I'd like to throw 2 cents in and say that I miss Japanese actors like Toshiro Mifune and Takashi Shimura. Today, most Japanese male film stars seem far too effeminate and androgynous for my taste. Don't make them like they used to?
post #2 of 56
Here's a recent appreciation of Stray Dog that I put together recently:

Toshiro Mifune was only two years into his film career when he starred in STRAY DOG. He was still a rookie, like his character. Like his character, he brought a total dedication and willingness to risk to his role. And like his character, he earned the friendship and respect of his elders.

In the film, Mifune plays a rookie Homicide detective who's pickpocketed on a crowded train. The detective, exhausted after an all-night stakeout in sweltering heat, is horrified to discover that someone has stolen his pistol. Bravely, he does the right thing and immediately troops back into headquarters to report the theft, take his lumps, and get to work on recovering the weapon. The detective, a recently discharged soldier, feels profoundly dishonored by the loss and personally responsible for the disposition of the sidearm and its bullets, and his guilt and motivation contrast with the world-weariness of both his lieutenant and the dogged veteran assigned to the case.

The brilliant Takashi Shimura plays the veteran / father figure, and his resigned competence both make us hope for the future of the younger man and magnify our identification with him: now he must not only find the weapon to redeem his own honor, he must prove himself worthy in the eyes of men who have given him the benefit of the doubt. This is a great approach to the material, as it creates a narrative drive that stems not from external forces such as criminals taking hostages or shouting captains, but the young detective's own need for redemption and honor.

Technically, the film is absolutely outstanding. Akira Kurosawa, aided by 1st Assistant Director Ishiro Honda (GOJIRA) and composer Fumio Hayasaka, create a heat-stricken Tokyo that lives and breathes. But it's Mifune's show, and it's easy to see why Kurosawa saw his muse in this man. Far from the commanding lead of SEVEN SAMURAI and THRONE OF BLOOD, this Mifune is both insecure and bold, learning his craft and discovering the building blocks of wisdom. He's young; he's green; but we see his potential and we see what Kurosawa saw in him.

Y'know, I liked STRAY DOG as I viewed it, but I'm growing to love the film as I write this. It's just plain terrific and it's the kind of movie that makes me happy I haven't yet seen all of Kurosawa's ouvre. Thank goodness, there's still more to discover.
post #3 of 56
Here's a fun tangent: what's your favorite Kurosawa homage? The 7 Samurai reference in Army of Darkness is what sold me on the film.
post #4 of 56
That's interesting. I think Ikiru is the best Kurosawa I've seen so far. I'll have to check out The Sea Is Watching.
post #5 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti
Here's a fun tangent: what's your favorite Kurosawa homage? The 7 Samurai reference in Army of Darkness is what sold me on the film.


a fistful of dollars.
post #6 of 56
THE FOUNTAIN homages IKIRU.
post #7 of 56
Is the Homage the street scene just before Tom gets hit by a car?
post #8 of 56
Yep.
post #9 of 56
Awesome, I thought that scene was familiar.

I like most of Kurosawa's films and I think his contributions to cinema as a medium is just outstanding. While his period work would be outmatched in the sixties by a new host of rebel directors the sheer intensity and power of works like Throne of Blood, Yojimbo, and the Seven Samurai is incredible. But for my money it's his present day films like Ikiru, Stray Dog and the Idiot which I find admiration for. Whereas his Samurai films are victims of the great works that would follow them his modern days films have this timelessness about them and just seem utterly unique.

My favourite Kurosawa film by a long shot has to be Red Beard, just a stunning piece of work and a fantastic inversion on the action cinema he was more famous for.
post #10 of 56
SEVEN SAMURAI and IKIRU are my favorites. SEVEN SAMURAI I could put in any time any place.

RED BEARD's great too. A really terrific performance by Mifune.
post #11 of 56
The only thing to dislike about Red Beard is that the knowledge of Mifune and Kurosawa's catastrophic bust up hangs over it and as such I find myself applying outside motivation to certain acting choices by Mifune. I think it's a tragedy that after Red Beard, Kurosawa would spend the rest of his career having to scrape together money to get himself financed.
post #12 of 56
I've absolutely loved every Kurosawa film I've seen so far, but my favorites are definitely Ikiru, Seven Samurai, and Red Beard. I also hold a lot of affection for Dreams, as it features some of the most amazing imagery I have ever seen committed to film.

Kurosawa films are filled with so much beauty and grace, and it's amazing how he can take a seemingly simple story like a man dying of cancer and turn it into something epic.
post #13 of 56
Yojimbo and Sanjuro are my favorites. Mifune is such an amazing actor.
post #14 of 56
OK. I have a confession to make. I've NEVER seen an Akira Kurosawa film. But I intend to remedy that as soon as possible. So... Where do I start?
post #15 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarant
OK. I have a confession to make. I've NEVER seen an Akira Kurosawa film. But I intend to remedy that as soon as possible. So... Where do I start?
Damn, beat me too it. The only film they carry at my shithole of a video rental store is Seven Samurai* and I've been rather intimidated to start it. Oh, and I'm retarded.

*Actually, we also have Dreams.
post #16 of 56
i say start with seven samurai. the new criterion edition is fantastic and easily worth the 40-50 bucks for it.
post #17 of 56
Thread Starter 
I've got to go with cry, Seven Samurai was the film I was first introduced to Kurosawa with, and (while I love it) I think its the most solid action film, and because of how many time its been homaged to, referenced, or 'reinterpreted' itll feel familiar to most moviegoers/film buffs.

Looking at my collection, The Hidden Fortress will also work well, and you may squee a bit about the Star Wars parallels. Apparently, Lucas used/modified the theme of the two peasants during the C3PO and R2D2 walk through the desert in Tattooine in a New Hope.

I've got to say, the original trilogy (the first two moreso than RotJ) is my favorite homage to Kurosawa, and while I didn't like Hidden Fortress, it really grew on me.


Same with Yojimbo. I first watched it at 3 after LA confidential and Shaolin Soccer, and I couldn't stay up through the thing, which seem long and tedious. Afterwards, when I was actually awake, I LOVED it.
post #18 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
Damn, beat me too it. The only film they carry at my shithole of a video rental store is Seven Samurai* and I've been rather intimidated to start it. Oh, and I'm retarded.

*Actually, we also have Dreams.
Seven Samurai is in no way intimidating Patrick, the three hours just waltzes by. I'm not even joking it is perhaps the most visceral and entertaining film I've ever watched there's never a moment when your attention drifts and being that it's essentially an action movie prototype it kinda fits thematically in with a lot of modern films.

I'd seriously start with either Seven Samurai or Throne of Blood for Kurosawa as both have key hooks for Western audiences. One is a homage to John Ford, t'other is essentially Shakespeare with Samurai.
post #19 of 56
No mention of Rashomon in this thread, shocking. Thats a good film to start with too Quarant.
post #20 of 56
Rashomon is my least favourite Kurosawa film just because it feels at times a little too self conciously clever.
post #21 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall
Seven Samurai is in no way intimidating Patrick, the three hours just waltzes by. I'm not even joking it is perhaps the most visceral and entertaining film I've ever watched there's never a moment when your attention drifts and being that it's essentially an action movie prototype it kinda fits thematically in with a lot of modern films.

I'd seriously start with either Seven Samurai or Throne of Blood for Kurosawa as both have key hooks for Western audiences. One is a homage to John Ford, t'other is essentially Shakespeare with Samurai.
Nice Ichi avator there

I would question the accessibility of Throne of BLood, if anything, Yojimbo is an intentional parody/homage of westerns, when lumping together movies fit for introducing Kurosawa.
Throne of BLood is one of my favorites, but everything from the cover art to the actual content, I would think its one of his more....figurative films, closest to Dreams, in a way.

How did you find Rashamon too ..how did you put it? selfconscously clever?
For me, it sometimed seemed alittle too heavyhanded in this, a "heres a witness, theres a witness, everyone's a witness!" kind of vibe but never really felt like it found itself too clever. If anything, Dreams came across like that to me, and though I do love it, it is lower ranked than the majority of other Kurosawa filmss. A little too "I am special! I make literal movies out of my dreams because I'm so revered" clever kind of vibe.

It may be one of his later movies, true, and it does have breathtaking visuals/fables constructed...
Ran is the ultimate sendoff for any director, period. I know he had Madadyo, which I believe was more obvious (Old professor leaving, his students come to say last goodbye...mind you, I haven't seen it), but when I think about the end of Kurosawa, I think about RAN.


Interesting note, his female characters. I find that while oftent aking backseat to the samurai and male leads, everynow and then we get a standout, such as the Princess from Hidden Fortress, or the Wife of Second Brother in RAN, to the Lady Macbeth equivalent in throne of blood.

There of course is Sea Is watching, and that movie gives me a strong Princess Bride vibe, despite teh nudity and rape.
post #22 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belethedheliel
That's interesting. I think Ikiru is the best Kurosawa I've seen so far. I'll have to check out The Sea Is Watching.
The Sea is Watching is one of my favs. Beautiful movie.
post #23 of 56
Is the Sea is Watching a 2002 movie based off of one of Kurosawa's scripts? I can see what you mean about the more metaphorical and interpretative aspects of Throne of Blood, but I do think it's Macbeth roots makes the story easier to follow. Yojimbo while an excellent film is best seen after seeing a few of his older Samurai films, it just fucks around with the rules so much that without the proper context it might not have the desired context.
post #24 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall
Is the Sea is Watching a 2002 movie based off of one of Kurosawa's scripts? I can see what you mean about the more metaphorical and interpretative aspects of Throne of Blood, but I do think it's Macbeth roots makes the story easier to follow. Yojimbo while an excellent film is best seen after seeing a few of his older Samurai films, it just fucks around with the rules so much that without the proper context it might not have the desired context.
Pretty much. He had storyboards drawn up (If I ever because a rich woman, I'm hunting those down) as well as the script, if I recall correctly, was in preproduction. Then he died and they brought on Kei Kuma to direct it, but basically just to have a director, because the movie is still Kurosawa, through and through.

I heart you Wee-bey. The more people see the movie the better. THough it got alot of criticism fpr being slow, though I imagine the people who seem to crticize haven't really seen Kurosawa films.

Huh, then from that perspective I do have to agree with you Spike, about the accessibility of Throne of Blood. But man, seeing Mifune thrown around like a ragdoll in Yojimbo, just ouch. And struck me as very American Western.

What do you think is Akira Kurosawa's .....least accomplished film? Is there such a thing? ^_^
post #25 of 56
The Idiot really suffers for being cut down so much. At points Kurosawa is forced to tell you what happened in excised scenes through text boards. I still have a fondness for it, but I love Dostevsky, but it is certainly far from his greatest film.
post #26 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti
Here's a recent appreciation of Stray Dog that I put together recently:

Toshiro Mifune was only two years into his film career when he starred in STRAY DOG. He was still a rookie, like his character. Like his character, he brought a total dedication and willingness to risk to his role. And like his character, he earned the friendship and respect of his elders.

In the film, Mifune plays a rookie Homicide detective who's pickpocketed on a crowded train. The detective, exhausted after an all-night stakeout in sweltering heat, is horrified to discover that someone has stolen his pistol. Bravely, he does the right thing and immediately troops back into headquarters to report the theft, take his lumps, and get to work on recovering the weapon. The detective, a recently discharged soldier, feels profoundly dishonored by the loss and personally responsible for the disposition of the sidearm and its bullets, and his guilt and motivation contrast with the world-weariness of both his lieutenant and the dogged veteran assigned to the case.

The brilliant Takashi Shimura plays the veteran / father figure, and his resigned competence both make us hope for the future of the younger man and magnify our identification with him: now he must not only find the weapon to redeem his own honor, he must prove himself worthy in the eyes of men who have given him the benefit of the doubt. This is a great approach to the material, as it creates a narrative drive that stems not from external forces such as criminals taking hostages or shouting captains, but the young detective's own need for redemption and honor.

Technically, the film is absolutely outstanding. Akira Kurosawa, aided by 1st Assistant Director Ishiro Honda (GOJIRA) and composer Fumio Hayasaka, create a heat-stricken Tokyo that lives and breathes. But it's Mifune's show, and it's easy to see why Kurosawa saw his muse in this man. Far from the commanding lead of SEVEN SAMURAI and THRONE OF BLOOD, this Mifune is both insecure and bold, learning his craft and discovering the building blocks of wisdom. He's young; he's green; but we see his potential and we see what Kurosawa saw in him.

Y'know, I liked STRAY DOG as I viewed it, but I'm growing to love the film as I write this. It's just plain terrific and it's the kind of movie that makes me happy I haven't yet seen all of Kurosawa's ouvre. Thank goodness, there's still more to discover.

Not to cheapen a magnificient write up, which ensures I must see it now, but Mifune also cleans up very, very well. Its the fangirl in me and they sure doesn't seem to make them (them being Japanese actors, with a few exceptions, they all seem to really get into the whole pretty boy are you sure its not female? adrogyny trend) like they used to. Such magnificient, dare I say macho, epicly stereotypical heroic visages. Damn. You never seem to have any doubt that those guys are Men.
Additionally I'm awed by Kurosawas ability to do modern and period films.

100Million dollar question: Toshiro Mifune, or Takashi Shimura?
post #27 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
Damn, beat me too it. The only film they carry at my shithole of a video rental store is Seven Samurai* and I've been rather intimidated to start it. Oh, and I'm retarded.

*Actually, we also have Dreams.
Patrick,

SEVEN SAMURAI is the greatest film ever made. I say that without an ounce of hyperbole. I could say that every action film made since has, in some way, been inspired by SEVEN SAMURAI, but that would make you watch it looking for the obvious influences. I could say that it's Toshiro Mifune's best performance ever, but that would make you watch it and possibly pass over the great, great work of Takeshi Shimura, Seiji Miyaguchi, Isao Kimura, and many others. I could say that the cinematography may be as revolutionary as Gregg Toland's in CITIZEN KANE, but then you would be concentrating on that instead of the amazing story. I could say that the plot has been copied throughout the years and has inspired movies as different as A BUG'S LIFE, MAGNIFICIENT SEVEN, and THREE AMIGOS, but then you would be missing out on the wonderful performances.

But there has been no film, before or since, that has what SEVEN SAMURAI has - it's a joyous celebration of film, story, character, acting, and cinematography that, in my opinion, has not yet been equaled. And I'm saying all this and it may be pumping it up and when you do put it in may be a little let down. For that, I say one thing... forget everything I just wrote, and let the story unfold. Open your heart to it. Watch it on the biggest screen possible, and watch it with as many people as you can drag to your house (at least the ones who won't groan when the subtitles appear on screen). And then prepare yourself for adventure. Give yourself over to it.

It's pure joy.
post #28 of 56
I just bought a bunch of Kurosawa Criterion's recently during a DeepDiscountDVD sale to buff up my collection a bit (having only owned RAN previously) and honestly, although I love SEVEN SAMURAI and HIGH & LOW in particular, RAN is still my favorite of his films. I'm surprised to see so little love for it here, as it is one of his best films by any standards.

It is depressing and, for some, slowly paced, though. Personally I find the slow pacing to be nearly perfect, and the "detached" feel of the narrative was a brilliant stroke even if it doesn't make for sentimental or accessible viewing.
post #29 of 56
I'll chime in with Nordling Patrick you have to see The Seven Samurai.

Its certainly one of my favorite films but i'm sure of this there hasn't been a better directed film ever. Everytime I watch it i'm blown away and marvel at what Kurosawa unfolds for us as an audience.

Its pure cinematic bliss. The greatest closing shot in the history of cinema as well. I envy you because I still clearly remember the feeling that washed over me after my first viewing.
post #30 of 56
Ran's a masterpiece, no doubt about it. There's a special place in my heart for 7S, however. I picked it up on a whim, with no idea who Kurosawa or any of the actors were. In fact, it may have been the first subtitled movie I ever saw.

Not only did the film itself dazzle and move me, it opened up a whole new cinematic world.
post #31 of 56
Also Patrick check out this thread for more Kurosawa Reco's and Japanese and HK can't miss films.

http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78062
post #32 of 56
Ran's the movie that got me interested in Kurosawa in the first place when Siskel and Ebert raved about it on their show in the 80s. It's the first Kurosawa film I saw on a big screen. Great, great film.

It's pretty hard to go wrong with any reasonable starting point for Kurosawa. You can certainly make cases for The Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, Ran, The Hidden Fortress, Throne of Blood, Ikiru, Rashomon, High and Low, Dreams, or even Stray Dog. No two are alike.

The latest Kurosawa film I've seen for the first time is Dersu Uzala. Not one of his all time classics, but setting Kurosawa loose with a camera in nature is unfair to lesser directors. I have a feeling that Lucas borrowed the night in Hoth idea from that movie.
post #33 of 56
That's a fantastic thread there. I was kinda anxious you'd link poor Patrick to the Asian Film Thread which is, frankly, just ridiculously large. I don't think anyone has gone all the way through that thread without losing a little of themselves in the protest.

If you do find yourself liking Kurosawa's Samurai Films, particularly Sanjuro, I would definetely suggest looking at the work of Kobayashi and Okamoto.

As much as I respect Ran (I adore it on a technical level) I always found it a little too nihilistic for my liking. There's just so much sorrow and bleakness that it becomes hard to take after a while.
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall
As much as I respect Ran (I adore it on a technical level) I always found it a little too nihilistic for my liking. There's just so much sorrow and bleakness that it becomes hard to take after a while.
Hey, man, that's Lear.
post #35 of 56
Thread Starter 
And the Wife of eldest son was amazingly....badass.

I think the greatest translations of shakespeare are not when the dialogue is intact, but when the spirit is preserved. And KUrosawa does that in both THrone of Blood and Ran.
post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny
Patrick,

SEVEN SAMURAI is the greatest film ever made. I say that without an ounce of hyperbole. I could say that every action film made since has, in some way, been inspired by SEVEN SAMURAI, but that would make you watch it looking for the obvious influences. I could say that it's Toshiro Mifune's best performance ever, but that would make you watch it and possibly pass over the great, great work of Takeshi Shimura, Seiji Miyaguchi, Isao Kimura, and many others. I could say that the cinematography may be as revolutionary as Gregg Toland's in CITIZEN KANE, but then you would be concentrating on that instead of the amazing story. I could say that the plot has been copied throughout the years and has inspired movies as different as A BUG'S LIFE, MAGNIFICIENT SEVEN, and THREE AMIGOS, but then you would be missing out on the wonderful performances.

But there has been no film, before or since, that has what SEVEN SAMURAI has - it's a joyous celebration of film, story, character, acting, and cinematography that, in my opinion, has not yet been equaled. And I'm saying all this and it may be pumping it up and when you do put it in may be a little let down. For that, I say one thing... forget everything I just wrote, and let the story unfold. Open your heart to it. Watch it on the biggest screen possible, and watch it with as many people as you can drag to your house (at least the ones who won't groan when the subtitles appear on screen). And then prepare yourself for adventure. Give yourself over to it.

It's pure joy.
Thank you and I shall.
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCobretti
Hey, man, that's Lear.
And King Lear is a play that I find hard to sit through (I've only seen it at a theatre once, as opposed to the half dozen or so times I've seen Macbeth/Hamlet/Othello).

It's just the unending sadism of the picture, the main battle of the film is just incredible in that it really makes you understand that war is hell.
post #38 of 56
Seven Samurai was indeed great. If there was anyone on the fence about seeing it until they got the word from Mr. Patrick Ripoli, well, here it is. It's really great. Even better than Face/Off.

EDIT: Just to make sure, this movie IS fullscreen, right? It was the (old) Criterion version, so I assume that they'd preserve the aspect ratio.
post #39 of 56
Glad you liked the film Patrick, I'm still of the opinion that the film has so much cinematic baggage that it takes a few watches to really appreciate the movie as a work of art and not as a piece of cinematic history.
post #40 of 56
It's bizarre, but I just entered the thread to chime in that I too just watched Seven Samurai for the first time and that it's pure brilliance. Just well-written, well-acted, well-shot and overall entertaining from beginning to end. And at 190 minutes it just seems to fly by. I was amazed to discover just how many standard action-movie archetypes are embodied in the film. Not to mention that Toshiro Mifune was a true revelation. Thanks for the recommendation. Now onto my next Kurosawa...
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
EDIT: Just to make sure, this movie IS fullscreen, right? It was the (old) Criterion version, so I assume that they'd preserve the aspect ratio.
Yes, it was originally done in a relatively fullscreen-like aspect ratio. Prior to cineramas, many films were shot pretty square. Actually, films are still shot on basically square framed film, they just lop them into a wide aspect ratio for the screen. The cinerama experience was too clumsy to work really well, but it gave the audience a taste for feeling immersed. Borne of it were IMAX and the widescreen aspect ratio.
post #42 of 56
For a change of pace, Patrick, you should watch IKIRU next.
post #43 of 56
For anyone in the DC area the AFI theater is playing Ran and in May Seven Samurai.

I saw Ran earlier this week and it was amazing to see on the big screen.
post #44 of 56
you just made my day mr. ross. I've wanted to see seven samurai on the big screen for a while now.


Toshiro Mifune's big monologue may be my favorite scene of all time.
post #45 of 56
I may have been just a naive wannabe film geek in 8th grade, but I remember thinking Mifune was one of the best actors ever after Rashomon. I need to rewatch 7 samurai.
post #46 of 56
Also saw Seven Samurai for the first time the other day. Christ, what a movie.
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by le Stephanois
I may have been just a naive wannabe film geek in 8th grade, but I remember thinking Mifune was one of the best actors ever after Rashomon. I need to rewatch 7 samurai.
Far from it. You were a smart and insightful young man.
post #48 of 56
found out one of my friends has no idea what Seven Samurai is about or who any of the people in it are. so we're going to take him to the that AFI showing, pretty excited. One of those movies I've always hoped I'd be able to see on the big screen.
post #49 of 56
Has anyone seen the recently released to dvd by Weinstein Seven Samurai remake/ripoff (they don't credit it on the box) SEVEN SWORDS?
post #50 of 56
I love the work Kurosawa does with the elements in Seven Samurai. Wind, water, fire, and earth are integral parts of the story and characters in their own right. He had no superiors and few equals in that regard.

And it extends to his nature shots. Trees swaying in the breeze are a much better shot than just still trees. It's a simple idea, but it's still an idea that's not utilized by many directors.
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