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Atheist VT Professor Pwns Dinesh D'Souza

post #1 of 19
4/21/07 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Just a marvelous read.

Partial D'Souza:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinesh D'Souza
"To no one's surprise, Dawkins has not been invited to speak to the grieving Virginia Tech community. What this tells me is that if it's difficult to know where God is when bad things happen, it is even more difficult for atheism to deal with the problem of evil. The reason is that in a purely materialist universe, immaterial things like good and evil and souls simply do not exist. For scientific atheists like Dawkins, Cho's shooting of all those people can be understood in this way--molecules acting upon molecules.
If this is the best that modern science has to offer us, I think we need something more than modern science.
Partial rebuttal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheist VT Professor
I know that brutal death can come unannounced into any life, but that we should aspire to look at our approaching death with equanimity, with a sense that it completes a well-walked trail, that it is a privilege to have our stories run through to their proper end. I don’t need to live forever to live once and to live completely. It is precisely because I don’t believe there is an afterlife that I am so horrified by the stabbing and slashing and tattering of so many lives around me this week, the despoliation and ruination of the only thing each of us will ever have.

We atheists do not believe in gods, or angels, or demons, or souls that endure, or a meeting place after all is said and done where more can be said and done and the point of it all revealed. We don’t believe in the possibility of redemption after our lives, but the necessity of compassion in our lives. We believe in people, in their joys and pains, in their good ideas and their wit and wisdom. We believe in human rights and dignity, and we know what it is for those to be trampled on by brutes and vandals. We may believe that the universe is pitilessly indifferent but we know that friends and strangers alike most certainly are not. We despise atrocity, not because a god tells us that it is wrong, but because if not massacre then nothing could be wrong.
There is much more at the link, but this guy is eloquent, fair, never insulting, and just great. I think many of you will enjoy reading it.
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post #2 of 19
4/21/07 at 1:10pm
Science bless you Jacob, sigged.
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post #3 of 19
4/21/07 at 1:30pm
Reading the shit that D'Souza spews is painful. I believe that this is the first I've heard of the man so I looked him up and imagine my surprise when I discover that he wrote "THE ENEMY AT HOME:THE CULTURAL LEFT AND ITS RESPONSIBILITY FOR 9/11".

I hate these assholes that wait for tragedy to strike and so that they can get up on their soapboxes and preach.

Great response from the professor. I imagine that it took a great deal of self restraint for him to put out that message.
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post #4 of 19
4/21/07 at 2:19pm
Quote:
The reason is that in a purely materialist universe, immaterial things like good and evil and souls simply do not exist. For scientific atheists like Dawkins, Cho's shooting of all those people can be understood in this way--molecules acting upon molecules.
If this is the best that modern science has to offer us, I think we need something more than modern science.
It's not the best modern science has to offer us, you twit. It's something you made up and put in the mouth of the Dawkins in your head.

Gah!
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post #5 of 19
4/21/07 at 3:51pm
Thanks for the link, Jacob.
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post #6 of 19
4/21/07 at 10:30pm
Wow. Eloquant and clear. I second that thanks.

And this line nailed something about my own opinions that'd puzzled me for a while:

Quote:
You think we atheists have difficulty with the concept of evil. Quite the contrary. We can accept a description of this man as evil. We just don’t think that is an explanation.
I'd like to offer up another response to D'Souza's load, this one from Dan Savage:

Quote:
Maybe the atheists aren’t around because atheists don’t feel a need to insert themselves into other people’s lives? Maybe the atheists aren’t around because we’re not interested in telling other people how to grieve? Or hijacking other people’s grief for our own ends? Or maybe it’s because we don’t proselytize generally? Maybe we’re not around because we’re not the ones that see a potential PR bonanza in every tragedy? Or maybe the atheists aren’t because we don’t have to account for evil in the world because we don’t tell people they have an all-powerful imaginary friend/God that gives a shit about them, can works miracles, and answers their prayers?

Or maybe the atheists aren’t around because we’re not assholes?
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post #7 of 19
4/21/07 at 11:02pm
Dan Savage is the man.
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post #8 of 19
4/21/07 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beageal
I'd like to offer up another response to D'Souza's load, this one from Dan Savage:
While generally the exception, there are of course many atheists that are not a*holes when it comes to the subject of religion, but also seems to proselytize and interpret religious text in the most fundamentalist manner that would make a small town pentecostal preacher proud.
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post #9 of 19
4/21/07 at 11:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica
While generally the exception, there are of course many atheists that are not a*holes when it comes to the subject of religion, but also seems to proselytize and interpret religious text in the most fundamentalist manner that would make a small town pentecostal preacher proud.

Not sure if this is what you're getting at, but pointing out that many "Christians" don't pay much more than lip service to the values Jesus espoused in the Bible may be a-holish, but IMO it's also fair.
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post #10 of 19
4/21/07 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisTheCheese
Reading the shit that D'Souza spews is painful. I believe that this is the first I've heard of the man so I looked him up and imagine my surprise when I discover that he wrote "THE ENEMY AT HOME:THE CULTURAL LEFT AND ITS RESPONSIBILITY FOR 9/11".
D'Souza was on The Colbert Report a few months ago promoting that book, and Colbert completely embarrassed him during the interview. It's not surprising that D'Souza is saying dreck like this. Great rebuttal by the VT prof, though. Very tempered, sober, and eloquent.
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post #11 of 19
4/22/07 at 3:26am
Between the wars in the middle east, katrina, and the vt shootings, I wish the lord would get his head out of his ass.
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post #12 of 19
4/22/07 at 3:37am
...and rain down some good ole fire and brimstone.
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post #13 of 19
4/22/07 at 4:16am
I wish I could get over the hump. I'm not sure of anything, I don't know what to believe in a world full of so many ideas. It would be fine to believe there is no soul, no type of afterlife, nothing. Nobody is watching the grand experiment unfold, it's just the passing of time. It just hasn't "clicked" in me yet, which is insanely frustrating. Sometimes I lean towards spiritual possibilities but I ask myself "where is the proof?".

Oh, what to do ...........
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post #14 of 19
4/22/07 at 4:28am
I think you are already there grasshopper, it's nice to be able to admit to yourself that you don't know something when there is no proof instead of carrying the burden of being full of shit all day.
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post #15 of 19
4/22/07 at 5:41am
Fat Dragon, if it's that spiritual leaning that's keeping it from "clicking" I'd recommend reading a few things about the atheist's sense of joy and confort in the world. A really nice place to start is this one written by Penn Jillette for NPR's This I Believe (Not a fan of reading? There's a 'Listen' button on NPR's page.):

Quote:
I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-O and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.
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post #16 of 19
4/22/07 at 3:45pm
D'Souza's argument is a brother to the old standard "There are no atheists in the foxholes" one, which never made much sense to me. Sure, if I were in a foxhole, I'd probably feel more compelled to be religious, but then again, I'd probably also be more likely to shit my pants, and that doesn't make it a good thing, either.
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post #17 of 19
4/23/07 at 3:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsky
D'Souza's argument is a brother to the old standard "There are no atheists in the foxholes" one, which never made much sense to me. Sure, if I were in a foxhole, I'd probably feel more compelled to be religious, but then again, I'd probably also be more likely to shit my pants, and that doesn't make it a good thing, either.
"The statement that there are "no atheists in foxholes" is not an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes."
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post #18 of 19
4/23/07 at 1:55pm
You should check out the Wikipedia entry for D'Souza - the part about how he stole a list of students' names and published it in the Dartmouth times outting gays, is particularly interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D'Souza
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post #19 of 19
4/23/07 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord
"The statement that there are "no atheists in foxholes" is not an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes."
Yeah, the statement might as well be "under intense pressure, some people turn into morons."
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