Sex with one of your closest friends? - Page 5

All depends on the situation.

Did Dave pine getting into bed with you that entire year? If not, it's irrelevant.

No, I didn't. I don't see how it's irrelevant. Based on Death Surge's post, her decision to sleep or not sleep with me within the first 24 hours had nothing to do with my interest. I would already have been evaluated, summed up, and accepted or dismissed in her mind as a suitable mating partner, and there's absolutely nothing she or I might do to change my standing in the subsequent days, weeks, months, years, or decades. People's opinions of others are based entirely on first impressions and nothing else.

Most curiously, your personal anecdote contradicts his point. Unless your wife had incredibly low self-esteem at the time, I'm guessing that she was pretty sure that she wouldn't want to sleep with the "absolute prick" who unleashed that monstrosity of a cliche on her. She obviously changed her mind sometime after the first 24 hours of knowing you.

And you're misusing the word "pine."

You're missing the point slightly. What I meant when I originally said that (with some comical exaggeration to take the bitter edge off) is that to a guy, a female platonic friend is one who will not only not fuck you, but will fuck anyone else. Like, you're both stranded on a desert island together, she will build a wicker man, have sex with that, and then complain to you that it doesn't listen to her, and why can't it be a nice guy like you?

You speak the sad, soul-crushing, frustrating truth. At least from personal experience. There was this girl I must have had this conversation about three or four times.

"So and so is an asshole! I can't believe he did that!"
"Don't worry, everything will be fine." (That's what I was trying to tell you all along.)
"Why does this always happen?"
"Don't worry, everything will be fine." (What are you, blind? Do I need to spell out how I feel?)

Until one day I manned up and told her in detail how I felt about her. She felt betrayed for some reason and we fell apart. C'est la vie.

So if these women will literally fuck anyone or thing except you, why exactly are you and Jim so interested in them? Is it that you have such low self-esteem that you're only attracted to women with virtually no standards?

I propose a rational and math-based solution (which is weird for me) - you and Big Jim both seem to know at least one or two women who will literally fuck anyone except you. You should introduce Big Jim to one of these women that you know, and he should introduce you to one of the women that he knows. If my calculations are correct, you should have a 100 percent success rate with one of Jim's lady acquaintances, and he should have a 100 percent success rate with one of yours. There's your solution. Now make this happen.

While there are the occasional exceptional cases, I think that Surge, Stelios, and Jim are right on this one. In my experience, a girl who puts you in the "friend zone" right off the bat is usually never, ever going to come around.

My experience with this was kind of crushing. I met this girl on campus and she was beautiful, intelligent and was eager to talk to me. So, naturally, I began to hang out with her. We were "friends" for a year. During the second week of that year, she introduced me to her mother, a few more weeks down the line she started to confide in me, and she spent every free night of her week going out on the town with me. This led me to believe she had a mutual interest. So, after six months, I tell her my feelings: I'm dating around but we seem to feel comfortable confiding in each other and enjoy each other's company quite a bit, why don't we date? She responded by saying she just wanted to be friends and asked for some "time away." That time ended up being three months.

When she came back into the picture, she gave me a ticket to her graduation ceremony and I returned the favor by giving her a ticket to mine. Then she invited me to dinner with her family after the graduation and I also returned the favor. The dinner with my parents went pretty well. During her graduation and dinner, the mother tells me that she knows her daughter can be difficult but "has a heart of gold, if you can find it, and I think you have." She then tells me that her daughter talks about me all the time, that I'm considered part of the family, and then drags me around by the hand and introduces me as her daughter's "special friend" to all the relatives. The night after this, the girl tells me she loves me. The night after that, she proceeds to not only fuck a guy who isn't me but picks him up while we're out.

What I took away from this experience is that some women establish extremely close friendships with guys because they're insecure and they want the best of both worlds: a non-threatening guy to do the heavy lifting of an actual relationship and guys just to screw around with without forming attachments.

Here is wisdom.

OR, you can go ahead and fall in love with another girl, who will fall in love with you in return. Then the girl that fucked everyone but you will suddenly notice you, become very attracted to you, and you can ignore her in return. Then she'll spend the rest of her days lamenting the fact that you were "the one who got away."

Post order reversed for effect:

Some women also like capers. I'm not really a fan, though.

How exactly did we move from one woman to "some women" to "almost all women..."? You said that "your experience with this was kind of crushing," which suggests that it happened to you once.

Speaking as a woman, I'd like to take serious exception to your just-barely-not generalizations here. People treat each other like garbage all of the time in relationship land and, if we're going to bandy about personal experiences here, I've had men and women alike do heartbreaking things to me because of their inability to deal with whatever was going on between me and him/her at the time. It had fuck all to do with their plumbing. It's pretty far out of line to draw a correlation between manipulative behavior and the gender of the person engaging in it.

And that is my chief problem with this vile thread.

Typically, any guy over the age of 21 still using appropriated NFL terminology to define aspects of their romantic lives doesn't deserve to get into anyone's pants to begin with, let alone a relationship.

Most of the guys i know/have known still going on about "The Friend Zone" could stand a few more years unattached.

Like many things that amaze me about my youthful ignorance, I used to believe in the "Friend Zone." I swore that was the reason for never being able to seal the deal with some women in high school. Then I did a little introspective searching and came to the conclusion that I was attracted to a type of woman that exhibited this behavior.

For some reason I had a thing for woman with "daddy issues" (their use of the term) who would come to know me as more of an older brother figure than as a potential suitor. As much as it bothered me to be the eternal "friend," I was feeding into the vicious cycle by going after the same type of person.

I realize now that any relationship I would have had with those earlier women would have proved disasterous for both of us. I'm glad I grew the fuck up and figured that out.

I don't suppose it's occurred to any of you guys that the reason these women wouldn't sleep with you was that you were unattractive to them.

Sorry, of course not. What was I thinking?

Probably being too much of a pushover to go after what they want.

No!!!

Friend. Zone.

Well, I am pretty unattractive; thanks for calling that to my attention. I also have less game than an abandoned Parker Brothers factory, which is probably the bigger issue.

It's all about personality. Fuck having "game." Make them laugh so hard they almost pee themselves and you can break down any barriers your mug creates.

EDIT: I dont' want to sound like a douchebag giving out advice like I'm Cyrano de Bergerac. I just have this weird thing where I try to make sure all of my friends aren't lonely or lacking for love. I consider all of you (well, most of you) to be friends in at least a passing sense, so I'm trying to help a brutha out.

That's good advice. Also, working a bit of charm in combination with being basically charitable and giving the impression you care about what the girl is saying doesn't hurt either. For example, the big check against me in the singles scene is my height--I'm a 23-year-old and I'm 5'3''--and I find once I engage a girl in conversation at a party or bar, I can get them to laugh. After that, I show some interest in their current position in life and aspirations, which usually ends with a drink, dance, or both, and the lady programming her number into my phone. Personality can go a long way.

Of course it helps that when you find the right person to begin with, you won't have to fake these things at all.

That is having "game".

It took me a long time to figure out how to score with women. Fuck being yourself...alot of guys are low self esteem having losers, who really haven't grown up yet. Women aren't attracted to that. Work on yourself first, become the best you can be, don't be ashamed to show it, and women will come looking for you.

And that's how I found out how to score with women. I almost never approach them. I just hang around, toss out some charm to other people in the vicinity, and I start getting signals from a woman or women. They're subtle, so alot of guys can't even read the signals, so they're not getting anywhere.

From there, I start talking to them, get a number, or an instant date ("want to grab some coffee?") and don't say anything stupid, but also don't focus on getting laid. Just focus on having fun, being yourself (the improved version), gradually work your way in there ("how about I come over with a dvd and a bottle of wine?") and presto.

Of course it's never that simple, but the major thing I'd say is, don't approach women. They expect it, and it's too easy for them to pay attention to. Play hard to get, make them realize you're such a prize, you've got to be earned. Have some self respect, and never focus on or worry about not getting laid. It translates into desperation, through body language, which turns women off...I think it even turns men off.

How long you been married, Ambler?

Not interested.

EDIT: Though I was engaged at one point, but called it off. I decided marriage wasn't for me, at least not right now.

I don't consider having a good personality to be "game." From all of the idiots I know ( not calling you out, Ambler) who try the whole "better than my real self" approach it never works out, and it's because it won't hold up past the first date. It's almost like a kamikaze move, because you only have that one date to make the sparks fly so big and bright that she won't notice the next time when your douchebaggery starts showing. Maybe it's just the people I know, but I watch them crash and burn all of the time with that method.

Having a good personality is relative. Some women like douchebags, some women don't. Game is being able to manipulate the situation to attain your goal. If you can make someone laugh until they pee, you're a good storyteller, and that's part of what game is. Just because you don't realize it, doesn't mean you don't have it.

And "better than my real self" is a misnomer and not what I said. I'm talking about "better" being more in line with having a life that is suitable and indicative of your tastes and true desires. That is your real self. Alot of serial killers are charming. It doesn't mean they're good people, but they're true to themselves.

And I think you're talking more about faking being charming or something, until you're found out, which is not at all what I was talking about.

This is the most unintentionally terrifying thing I've ever read on this board.

My game plan when I see ladies with dudes who think they got game:

Who they attractin with that line, "What's your name, what's your sign"?
Soon as he buy that wine I just creep up from behind
And ask what your interests are, "who you be with"?
Things to make you smile, what numbers to dial
You gon' be here for a while, I'm gon' go call my crew
You go call your crew
We can rendezvou at the bar around two
Plans to leave, throw the keys to Lil Cease
Pull the truck up, front, and roll up the next blunt
So we can steam on the way to the telly go fill my belly
A t-bone steak, cheese eggs and Welch's grape
Conversate for a few, cause in a few, we gon' do
What we came to do, ain't that right boo (truuuueee)
Forget the telly we just go to the crib
and watch a movie in the jacuzzi smoke l's while you do me

PLENTY MORE!!!

(Sorry I'm late! I'm trying real hard to repent! Please don't call the KCLS!!!)

Fucking nice.

That's never getting old.

I'll only use that when Zooey requests it. I have a sin to atone for.

EDIT: Oddly enough, the Mark 1 suit seems to be gunning for MissZooey first. THAT was an accident.

That sounds a lot sexier than it probably is.

It's really quite sad and mundane.

*reads a handful of posts*

......

*reaches for button*

Sweet. I can summon Iron Man whenever I need him. There are going to be a lot of singed eyebrows around these parts...

Jake, Jake! Only people who can use the word "game" without giggling, please!

*runs out of the room*

nooj, that is the greatest picture since Da Vinci's Last Supper.

I always sort of suspected that my failures with women when I was younger were becuase I just wasn't conversating them enough. Now I know.

fleed, please tell the ladies and gentlemen in here what fraction of the battle knowing constitutes.

...

The Dude feels the same way about Jackie Treehorn.