Sex with one of your closest friends? - Page 2

It's amazing to see that this discussion has become essentially about semantics. But since I love semantic discussions, here's my two cents.

On a certain level, I think we all categorize the people we know as "should/could/would sleep with" and "should not/could not/would not sleep with," just as they do to us. And sometimes when they put us in the latter category, we may be tempted to give it a ridiculous name like "friend zone" to comfort ourselves that it's not really our fault, that we ARE attractive and they just don't realize it because of their stupid zoning laws, etc. etc. Either way, I agree with the conventional wisdom: if you perceive yourself as being "in the friend zone," you're better off doing something to get out of it, one way or another.

And, as observed, Judd has to come to his own decision on what to do in this situation.

...

But my vote, too, is MOVE ON.

Man, she made out with you and still wouldn't break up with her boyfriend of the moment? I've been there. Swore up and down to all my friends that she wasn't taking advantage of me, she was just confused. And maybe she was, but the thing is, she never got unconfused. And your situation has been going on six years? That's plenty of time for her to make up her mind. More than enough, if you don't mind my saying so.

And I know you feel like "Well, nothing to do at this point but wait and see," but, again, you've kinda already being doing that for a reeeaaaal long time now. Haven't you?

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Good luck, however it turns out.

But it's the difference between the two that's important. I'm sure that this is (and will, undoubtedly, continue to be) totally lost on you, so let me break it down - "Friend zone," to me, connotes some sort of transitive state which has been created in the heads of insecure men. They have devised this concept to convince themselves that, as the articulate Mr. Savage wrote " it's not really our fault, that we ARE attractive and they just don't realize it because of their stupid zoning laws, etc. etc." There's a huge difference between "Oh, I'm just in the friend zone now, she'll change her mind" and "I guess she's not interested in me." Part of that distinction involves recognizing that you're just not that important in her mind. No special zone has been set up for you. Tough cookies. The other part of the distinction involves recognizing that relationships are not military campaigns. "Zone?" Seriously? What do you do then? Take Insecurity Hill No. 5, The Fields of Complimenting Her on Her Hair, and hope that these tactics leave the Plains of I'd Like to Make Breakfast for Him wide open? Please.


I said nothing about all women in my post. Go back and re-read it. I adhered to your silly attempts to cover your ass by making generalizations that do not, in fact, generalize.

...and yet you keep typing after this.

You may not remember this, since you were undoubtedly busy playing sports and sweating or something, but, a few years back, this Barbie doll (Oh, no! I'm talking about dolls! I'm probably going to start crying and menstruating any minute now!) came out that had a little button in her back. When you pressed it, she talked. One of the things she said was "Math is hard, let's go shopping!" There was an incredible backlash and the dolls were taken off the shelves. I bring this up to point out that you sound like a wad of plastic that was roundly condemned about 10-15 years ago. I bet you have to fight the girls off with a club.

Problem is, Barbie, that when my friends and the friends/girlfriends/wives of the people who continue to read your drivel are regularly the exceptions to these weird little rules of yours, your arguments don't hold much water. Perhaps it's you, perhaps it's us, but, until we sort this out, you're going to continue to sound like a huge jackass.

Like I said...

Well, when various people call you an ass you argue with them, which suggests to me that you either don't agree or understand why.

No, actually, if I had to list things women had in common I wouldn't choose the most frivolous and superficial and possibly deriding common denomitators I might find in some percentage of women. Then again, you may never have known any women past their most superficial characteristics, so you may not have much more to draw upon.

That's a good distinction. Making out is not innocently ambiguous, and that's what really rang a bell for me - I got the out-of-nowhere makeout session with a friend I was very interested in, and it later played out that she was a very, VERY confused and emotionally disturbed person; I was much better off that she didn't pursue anything at the time (because I was most certainly game). Some of the other situations I'd been in were much more innocent and didn't involve the same sort of crazy. Those were sincere misunderstandings. What Judd's describing sounds a lot more like the former than the latter to me. Beware the impromptu makeout sessions with friends (especially those with boyfriends).

As for miyagi - are you this dumb in real life, too? Seriously, I think this would explain why you're wrong about even basic human behavior. It's a tragic loop: being an idiot leads to not interacting with anyone other than idiots, which, in turn, leads to being even more of an idiot via the transmission of exclusively stupid ideas.

The way I always perceived a so-called Friend Zone; it's simply a mechanism that is defined by our attraction to certain people. You perceive others as potential partners or not. It does not mean that eventually you won't be attracted to him or her, especially after you get to know the person, but a lot of time it happens in a manner of seconds. the "in" and "out" and not definitive, nor is there any set boundaries. The said principle is not only for women but also men, and has nothing to do with insecurity of anyone whatsoever. I see this as a popular term for something difficult to qualify generally in a everyday situation, and that's not a macho term, nor derogative towards women.

You can meet an attractive person who dumb as a rock. Some will just stick with it, not minding the empty conversation, while others will be turned off completely. In your case Dave, some people won't mind having others attracted to them as friends, but in my case it has to be resolved immediately, as it can be awkward as hell to live with.

Hopefully it clarify a bit, as the fact still remains that most likely some people aren't bound to behave like others, because we're not married to our sister, like our Miyagi friend.

EDITED for spelling.

Obviously the distinction between those two things is all about how badly the guy wants to fuck her. You just aren't putting yourself in the other persons shoes enough to see that. Here is a little newsflash a lot of females don't understand. If a guy is kind of always hanging around and "there for you" etc. he's trying to parlay that into fucking you, this is true about 90% of the time. Judd really wants to fuck her. I'm sure you can relate to this with some memories you have from back in the eighties.

Nice attempt at comedy, this probably wouldn't even get a laugh on the View. Although I do picture you as Joy Behar.

People not liking something doesn't make it not true. The math thing was negative so people had a problem with it. It would be like a boy's toy saying "let's get in a big truck to boost our ego." Funny and true, but too negative for a children's toy. Has there ever been a "Mathematician Barbie" btw, that galavants around a malibu computer lab or something? Probably wouldn't sell too well.

Oh, well my friends say it's a hundred percent accurate, teeheehee. Spare me the bullshit about your biased jury. To quote a person you think is articulate it was Martin "Fred" Savage who said ......"Oh and so we're clear, most women are completely unaware of their Friend Zone. But it's there."

I obviously don't agree. Not understanding is something you made up for you own silly reasons.


You're predictably dodging the question. I didn't ask what you would list, I asked if you honestly thought the things I listed were not true. What I said men have in common was not exactly postive either. People don't want to address these things directly because they are too prideful and cowardly to face reality.

Delusional insults, no substance, good job.

I can't say how generally applicable this is, but this so so true in my case. About a year ago I went to a movie with this girl, then she unloads that she has a boyfriend. I backed the hell off thinking she was unavailable, then cue to a year later when she asks me out again. After dating for a couple of months, she asked me why I didn't ask her out again. I pulled out the boyfriend card and she just rolled her eyes. Because I didn't pursue her, I missed out in a whole year of reliable sexin'. A whole year. Fuck.

Like your substantive posts full of accurate, poll-derived statistics? At least my posts are informed by practical experience. For example: given what I've seen on these boards, I've come to the conclusion that you're an idiot. A huge one. I'm not sure where you, on the other hand, come up with your "guys like big trucks" bullshit, aside from watching bad commercials and comedy specials (you must have really taken that "Man Law" campaign to heart). I don't personally know any guys who are obsessed with big trucks, yet I know women who do very well in math-heavy fields, and they're not at all exceptions to some general rule. This is anecdotal, though, so maybe you should start some sort of informal poll, as there's a generally pretty diverse bunch here: how many guys on CHUD own big trucks to compensate for having small dicks?

Also, I'd be kind of surprised if my wife has tons of memories of guys wanting to fuck her "back in the 80s." I suspect that child-fucking may be acceptable among certain people such as yourself, but it's really not all that common. Oh, and "Joy Behar?" You're complaining about my "delusional insults," and you throw that one out?

Wow. Just popping in to say that DaveB against Swedish Miyagi is like an elephant versus an ant in the intelligence category. Maybe a retarded ant.

Don't bother. The guy bases his life on shock jock radio and Andrew Dice Clay. It's been pointed many times, but it's very doubtful the man ever interacts socially.

Ali, your previous post agrees with me in this thread, dumbass. You're another guy like Savage who follows me around and insults with no substance.

DaveB, hold on, Miss Zooey is your wife, hahaha, that makes a lot of sense, am I supposed to already know that or something. You nor your wife addressed much in my last post no doubt because you have no point but whatever. You don't think men tend to like big motor vehicles? I never said they are obsessed with them btw, just that they like them and own them. What are you fucking blind, do you live in New York and never leave. If not, just fucking go outside and look around, especially if you live in the south, midwest or southwest, it's a sea of unnecessarily big vehicles out there. I can't believe that you are really questioning this, it's extremely obvious, you've worked yourself into such an emotional dislike of me that you are becoming retarded.

I also like how nobody has the balls (figurative or literal) to say this is not true:

"But I know what a lot of women have in common. They like to gossip, shop, look cute, dance, get really excited about something, anything that doesn not involve math, etc. There are exceptions of course, I need to say that five hundred times for people in here apparently, but those things I mentioned sure as hell are very common with with most women in america. For men it's sports, and various outlets where they attempt to be some kind of a badass."

Does anyone want to tell me this is not true? So far nobody has.


Juan, you're a clueless follower.

Miyagi, it's not true.

Haha, well it sure is weird what's going on in every mall, how I never hear guys ever say let's go out dancing, how there isn't a bigger female contingent at the nfl draft, and the existence of all those large vehicles on the road. I guess in all the other cities I haven't been to the exact opposite is happening.

Miyagi...seriously...stop with the hyperbole.

Barbie, scroll upthread. I wrote that I concur with my husband and then I quote him, making it fairly easy to figure out which one is my husband. Plus, if you look at our user information, I believe we both say that we live in Milwaukee. Other than Chavez, who has not posted in this thread, I'm pretty sure we're the only two who do. It's not a big secret, particularly for those with reading comprehension skills.

I believe that I did. But, in case my point alluded you, let me just add - simply not true. Seriously - I know women (myself among them) who do, at times, enjoy shopping and dancing, and even a good bit of gossip now and again, but I know just as many men who also like these things. I don't know what the fuck "looking cute" or "getting excited about things" are supposed to mean, so I'm just going to move on. Finally, as for the weaker sex's notorious hatred of math - I tutored my high school boyfriend in calculus, took 9 credits of physics in college (chock full of scary, scary advanced algebra), will be tutoring my husband (DaveB, in case you forgot that already) for the math portion of the GRE, and the only person I know who is going for a doctorate in the hard sciences is a woman. Maybe I do live in a bubble, a parallel universe, or *gasp* New York (?!), but the counterexamples to your weird little theories abound.

Finally, Babs, just out of curiosity - why do you have to draw your understanding of women from looking around shopping malls? You understand that following random women around for kicks isn't going to teach you anything about them. Can you honestly assert that these silly commonalities you've come up with apply to the women in your life? Your mother, your sisters? Can you understand the implications of reducing someone to their more frivolous pleasures? It's degrading and weird.

How come most of the giant SUVs I see on the freeway seem to be piloted by women?


Let me say it again - Not true.

Because, obviously, any distinction that a woman chooses to make about her perception of a man has everything to do with what he wants to do with his penis. It doesn't matter whether or not a man wants to sleep with a woman. That could apply in either part of the distinction I've made. The hair that really needs splitting is this one - the distinction between perceiving those two frames of mind is recognizing that she does not want to have sex with you and choosing to either believe that you can con her into it ("friend zone") or that she has decided she's not interested in you.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Again with the generalizations. I'll be sure to stay clear of all of my friends' husbands and boyfriends, then. Thanks for the warning.

So many of your stupid misunderstandings of your myriad of enemies could be attended to by a teeny glance at what we have chosen to disclose about ourselves on our profiles. I was born in 1979. If that was an attempt to deflate the Barbie doll thing, that happened in the mid-90s. But, what do I know? I'm a girl, and thus I actively avoid math. I need to go lie down now and watch soap operas/file my nails/cry/have a martini that isn't really a martini.

I just want to say that I got some serious mileage out of this one last night, though I am having a hard time trying to figure out why it's an insult. I mean, granted, she's not drop-dead gorgeous, but I didn't recoil in horror at being compared to her. If you were trying to insult my physical appearance, that's a really odd way to go about it.

I've only seen The View once or twice. As I recall, she has a louder voice, a lot of opinions, seems fairly intelligent, and leans left politically, things that I really can't deny having in common with her. Oh, and we both have reddish hair, though mine doesn't come out of a bottle. Are you trying to make me uncomfortable by comparing me to an assertive woman? Am I supposed to be worried that you think I'm saying too much? Would it be easier for you if you happened to see me at the mall with my friend so you could just assume that I must be using up all of my brain power shopping, gossiping, and hating math?

Tragically, no Scientist Barbie, but there was an Astronaut Barbie, so there's that.

eta: grammatical tinkering.

Why are you guys even wasting your time arguing with miyagi? He's not going to change his mind and he's not going to say anything that will change other people on the board's minds, so why bother? Let him be miyagi.

You're absolutely right, sir. I think I'll try to find some more productive way to contribute now.

Could you answer this question: Is it intimidating to sleep next to a man with a brain as large as DaveB's? Don't you ever get afraid that one night he'll have a bad dream and set you on fire with his pyrokinesis?

Trust me - if there's someone in that bed who should be scared of big brain-spawned inadvertant psychic trauma, it's me. Like Miss Zooey said, she's the one who'll be doing the math tutoring when it comes to me taking the GRE. She's also the one who's a few credits short of a Master's and who graduated from a better school than I did (in the same field and with honors).

The only things I have up on her are music and movie trivia and making people like miyagi look even dumber than usual on this board, and she's quickly catching up on that last one.

Swedish Miyagi is a Titan, a Monolith.

You know, I wouldn't have to wear the asbestos nightcap if you people would stop kissing his ass.

I absolutely require a man with a brain as large as DaveB's, if only so I can learn everything I need to know about rock music from him and fool others into thinking that I'm far, far cooler than I am.

I'm not kissing his ass, but his knowledge and insight into rock music leaves an impression. We're all film nuts here so that kind of knowledge doesn't "impress" per sae. But you don't see many people with that kind of knowledge of rock music, even in rock magazines. Not only that, he weighs what you say, he considers your stance, he dispenses his knowledge without a shred of pretense, which I think is a trait only he posesses.

And I'm a total lightweight in that regard on this board. Everywhere else, of course, I'm pretty ahead of the curve on the movie stuff.

It's all in the editing. My posts are dripping with pretense and personal attacks, but I take them out before I hit Submit Reply. You should see what my unfiltered responses to miyagi look like.

Yeah, sorry I don't waste my time studying up on your profile. The marriage just explains a lot about the situation. DaveB is kind of whipped by you and things like his perception of the friend zone are compromised.


To just focus on one for second, you know just as many men who like dancing???? WTF, try to make it at least vaguely believable. Maybe you hang out with a bunch of guy's who's dream is to be in a broadway musical, I don't know. But there is a huge difference between a guy who likes dancing (would go dancing sans females) and a guy who dances aka barely moves in an effort to fuck girls who may be on the dance floor, that guy still doesn't like dancing, he likes fucking.


Very impressive, to honor your accomplishments I have made a poster of you by photoshoping a picture of Joy Behar to put a calculator in her hand and I took a couple wrinkles out. But you are only one person. And I guess your possibily imaginary friend is another but go to her hard science classes check out the gender ratio in there and get back to me.

Hi-ohhhh. Yeah I never said I draw all my understanding from anything or that I follow random women around. It was a shopping example. Yes I can assert those commonalities with women in my life. I'm not reducing someone to their more frivalous pleasures, I'm just acknowledging what those frivalous pleasures are, I did the same thing for men.


The women driving SUVs is true, and I would say is a spin off effect featuring mostly moms, but how many women have you seen driving a big truck with the suspension jacked up and an extra loud muffler.


With your first sentence there, the penis actually has a whole lot to do with the decision making process. Whether or not a guy wants to fuck drastically affects the nature of his "friendship." Women he would never think twice about being "friends' with he will be friends with because he thinks he still might be able to eventually fuck her. It's usually a bad idea for the guy to be much more than an acquaintance in those cases or else he ends up in the aforementioned friend zone where he is just painfully wasting his time. Of course, it is still possible for a guy to want to be friends with a girl he wants to fuck regardless of the wanting to fuck part. But that distinction can get really cloudy in a guy's mind.

See, I know what I'm talking about. You kind of have the personality of an old, semi intelligent, semi self centered, battleaxe who's a little too full of themselves and tells cheesy jokes.

It's like arguing with Eddie Murphy Raw.

Not really. At that point in his career, Eddie Murphy was still funny. Huge difference.

Touche. It's more like Andrew Dice Clay then, I guess.

I'll give him credit for one thing. Every thread that features that special brand of miyagi ignorance threatens to go down as one of the greatest meltdown threads in CHUD history. In the classic meltdown scenario, the meltee writes something overwhelmingly ignorant, then gets taken to task by a huge number of people at once. Eventually, there's a sort of visible breakdown, manifesting in crazed, barely-coherent posts, followed by either hiatus or self-banishment.

The leadup happens over and over and over with miyagi - but you know what? He hasn't melted down. He's so convinced that he's right, despite all overwhelming evidence suggesting otherwise, that he'll keep going indefinitely. He's the Energizer bunny of bad CHUD posters.

It's exactly like Andrew Dice Clay: sexist, arrogant, and mildly retarded.

Perhaps if we ask nicely, we can get DaveB to tell us about the time that he interviewed Andrew Dice Clay for his school paper. The story confirms everything I ever assumed about the Diceman.

He totally tried to fuck me. Seriously.

I wouldn't mind hearing that story. How's about it Dave?


edit-ok, maybe I don't need to know that story. No, on second thought, I do.

Years of therapy, and he still starts screaming every time someone recites a nursery rhyme within earshot...


...so sad...

eta: "starts screaming" instead of "breaks down sobbing," since that joke was already made on the circumcision thread. Meta. Plus, I totally want to see what happens if I start reciting "Hey Diddle Diddle" when he walks through the door tonight.

It was kind of boring, really. He kept on talking about how much he loved going shopping and, you know, looking cute, getting excited about things... shit like that. But I knew something weird was up when he went off on this long tangent about his experience the previous night. He had going dancing with some guy friends, and while he couldn't remember how many of them there were ("Dice" isn't really into math, it seems), he apparently let them pull a train on him repeatedly. Then he asked if I was into that sort of thing. I told him no, because I'm sort of a badass. Then I went home in my giant truck and watched sports.

This thread = comedy gold.

Brightened up an immeasurably drab little afternoon at work.

Nicely done.

If you're not gay kick her to the curb

So in the next twist Andrew Dice Clay is your wife too I guess. You, Dice, and Behar must have a lot of fun together, while Ripoll just watches.

Yeah, That ^^^ post was like watching a fat guy do a belly flop after a perfect 10 dive from an Olympian.

I like how Miss Zooey and DaveB get all worked up with their panties in a bunch and then relieve the pressure via self congratulatory remarks.

Because he used my material and inserted Andrew Dice Clay in place of women? I guess people sweat Jeff Foxworthy too, so have fun with it.

Your material? Oh, so that was a routine and you don't actually believe that crazy stuff you were posting earlier? I guess I just wasn't sharp enough to pick up on your Swiftian wit. From now on, I'll be sure to take everything you say as satire.

Material meaning you just repeated shit I said.

I sampled. It was like when Vanilla Ice used the bassline from "Under Pressure." Queen's went "dun-dun-dun da da dun-dun/dun-dun-dun da da dun-dun"; Ice's went "dun-dun-dun da da dun-dun dun/dun-dun-dun da da dun-dun." See? They weren't the same.

There you go again with that music!

Now that I can respect.

Hey JuddL, I found this while perusing MSN and I immediately thought of you. I know the genders are reversed in the column, but hopefully it can give you some insight on what to do.

I want to hump my best friend

I love the blurb about the author at the end of the article:

Because clearly when she doesn't have spare time it's hating being married, getting divorces and cheating like crazy.

I really missed the boat on this thread. Miyagi painted as an even bigger douchebag than his already severely douchebagged reputation? Top notch work.