A new Manhattan project?

You're so right.

If the billionaires of the world choose to subsidize a Manhattan project-style effort without any federal funding or blessing, all of the world's problems could probably be solved in very short order. The technology is there. The design models are there. The desire on the part of the public is even there.

The obstruction is Big Oil and the government officials it owns. The government in all of its many facets does not serve the people, the way our system has evolved. It serves the corporations, and chief and most profitable among them, and therefore most in control of Washington, is Exxon Mobil and its ilk. Therefore, it's not in the interest of Big Oil, and by extension the government, to allow any alternate forms of energy to be developed in a substantive way.

It's a leadership issue. Al Gore would have subscribed to this concept. George Bush has his own Manhattan Project: it's called 'the Global War on Terror.' It's a pretty bad idea.

Shut the fuck up, you tree-hugging America-hating hippie.

Fusion reactors may be around 20 years away (hopefully sooner).

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article...26214&from=rss

Well, I don't know about that, heh, but I get what you're saying.

This thing has been in the works for a long time, and it's just starting to get picked up by a few cities. The reason is not that the technology just hit a breakthrough, but rather that the demand is just getting to a level that producing these machines is about to become profitable. I think we're going to see similar things in the future, where, when people really need something, someone will figure out a way to sell it to them. Sure, it's not as romantic as billionaires coming together to save the world, but it'll get the job done.

I'd recommend reading all five pages of that link, by the way; it's good stuff.

How do you know there isn't a new Manhattan Project already in the works?

They kept the original one a secret, you know. Perhaps they're doing the same with this one.

Imagine an America with a relatively unlimited source of power that was not linked to outside resources like oil.

Think the rest of the planet hates us now? Wait until then. They'll want us all dead...or want to move here.

I'm sorry, did you actually have a point with this at all?

Yes, I did.

The topic of the thread was the wish to start up a new Manhattan project. I simply said there may already be one in place and in secret.

Simple enough point to make.

How much would the original Manhattan project cost in dollars adjusted for inflation? Anyone have an idea?

So are you saying that we shouldn't come up with alternatives to oil because the rest of the world will hate us more?

Quite the contrary. The hatred and jealosy of others is all the more reason to find a way to not need to rely upon their ill will to keep our energy needs satisfied. It is always better to work from a position of strength, not weakness.

Or we could, you know, offer the technology up as an alternative for other nations, too...

I certainly hope we would do that. The rest of the planet will still hate us, but hey, here's fusion power. Go nuts.

And, fusion power, unlike fission, is inherently safe (well, unless you're a hydrogen fuse pellet). Interesting timing for this post, as I work in an R/D lab and we just had a major fission breakthrough last month.

So in your world, the US is already developing clean alternative energy sources that should be ready any day now. Only it's been kept secret, because...I don't know, surprises are just more fun? And once it's ready (any time), we'll share it with the rest of the world, drastically improving living conditions and reversing the destruction of the environment. Only they'll hate us even more for it, because they're all a bunch of ingrates and jealous.

Your world seems to be a bizarre cross-breed of conspiracy theorizing, narcissism and xenophobia, but I kinda like it. Sounds like a good setting for Stephen Colbert's follow-up to the Alpha Squad 7 series.

This is because of our freedom, right?

Nope. Nice try, though

Aren't people in this forum always bitching about how the US has become the enemy of the world? Or do you luxuriate in the feeling of being detested for the place you live?

The US has done a lot of bad things over the last couple of centuries. I like to think the good we've done has outweighed the bad. Giving the planet fusion would be a sweet deal.

I don't think the people that hate us the most at the moment would accept fusion anyway. Ignorance, like mushrooms, grows best in the dark.

What's this we stuff?

As much as I believe in the power of technology to transform our lives for the better, it's a big mistake to go blindly hoping for a "magic bullet" that will solve all our problems. I think an awful lot of people, even those concerned about global warming, believe, deep down, that we'll come up with a fix in the nick of time, because we have so many times before. But there's no natural process that will lead to this, just a lot of hope. Of course we should push for something like this, but in the meantime, let's try and fix the system using the tools we have, and assume that SCIENCE!!!! will not swoop in and save us.

I know this isn't to the scale that a Manhatten Project would be...but we're involved: ITER.

We could probably encourage research and development without having direct government spending at all. We waste billions (trillions?) of dollars a year on tax exempt status for money-making enterprises (organized religion). Why not grant tax subsidies to entities that are devoted to developing technologies involving alternative energy sources? Will some companies take advantage of this with chicanery? Probably, just like they do with every other tax credit/write-off/deduction known to man. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.

Even miniscule tax credits for solar panels and hybrid cars led to a boom in purchasing. Maybe it would be a good idea to have expand these programs.

Our inability to invest in renewable energy sources is so disheartening, it literally makes me sick.

Rather shamefully ITER and its precursors have been for years a dick measuring contest between Europe, Japan and the US. Who will "lead" the project, where it's going to be hosted etc. We've been seeing this 20-25 year timeline for ever. I was still in high school when I first read about it.

What bugs me the most is that now we have this major crisis to respond to and money to burn and we still can't get our heads out of our asses and commit the funds and manpower needed. It frustrates me just thinking about it.

Fusion projects have been going on in the lab complex for the past 50 years in more or less plain sight. With last month's enormous breakthrough, we have a great proof of concept for a safe and renewable energy source, and it's right around the corner.

My normally conservative coworkers say it's the biggest leap in power generation since the Marx generator (built in 1924).

Pentagon study says oil reliance strains military
Urges development of alternative fuels

By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | May 1, 2007

WASHINGTON -- A new study ordered by the Pentagon warns that the rising cost and dwindling supply of oil -- the lifeblood of fighter jets, warships, and tanks -- will make the US military's ability to respond to hot spots around the world "unsustainable in the long term."

The study, produced by a defense consulting firm, concludes that all four branches of the military must "fundamentally transform" their assumptions about energy, including taking immediate steps toward fielding weapons systems and aircraft that run on alternative and renewable fuels. It is "imperative" that the Department of Defense "apply new energy technologies that address alternative supply sources and efficient consumption across all aspects of military operations," according to the report, which was provided to the Globe.

Weaning the military from fossil fuels quickly, however, would be a herculean task -- especially because the bulk of the US arsenal, the world's most advanced, is dependent on fossil fuels and many of those military systems have been designed to remain in service for at least several decades.

Moving to alternative energy sources on a large scale would "challenge some of the department's most deeply held assumptions, interests, and processes," the report acknowledges.

But Pentagon advisers believe the military's growing consumption of fossil fuels -- an increasingly expensive and scarce commodity -- leaves Pentagon leaders with little choice but to break with the past as soon as possible. Compared with World War II, according to the report, the military in Iraq and Afghanistan is using 16 times more fuel per soldier.

"We have to wake up," said Milton R. Copulos , National Defense Council Foundation president and an authority on the military's energy needs. "We are at the edge of a precipice and we have one foot over the edge. The only way to avoid going over is to move forward and move forward aggressively with initiatives to develop alternative fuels. Just cutting back won't work."

The Pentagon's Office of Force Transformation and Resources, which is responsible for addressing future security challenges, commissioned LMI, a government - consulting firm, to produce the report. Called "Transforming the Way DoD Looks at Energy," the study is intended as a potential blueprint for a new military energy strategy and includes a detailed survey of potential alternatives to oil -- including synthetic fuels, renewable biofuels, ethanol, and biodiesel fuel as well as solar and wind power, among many others.

The military is considered a technology leader and how it decides to meet future energy needs could influence broader national efforts to reduce dependence on foreign oil. The report adds a powerful voice to the growing chorus warning that, as oil supplies dwindle during the next half-century, US reliance on fossil fuels poses a serious risk to national security.

The rest is here.

I can't wait to see the solar powered fighter jet or the wind-powered tank.

They will be powered by steam.

Looking forward to flying home for Christmas on United Zeppelins.