Federer vs. Nadal on 1/2 grass, 1/2 clay court

I would really watch that.

For a few minutes.

If I ever came across it on television.

That's looks so fucking photoshopped. Has anything like this ever been done?

There's only one way to make tennis surfaces more exciting. Landmines.

But what is more important, that Federer is hitting TO grass, or returning FROM grass? Same with Nadal and a clay surface.

It is a sort of interesting thought at first, but when you realize both surfaces (yours and your opponents) affect the game, it becomes a bit less interesting.

Nadal won in a third set tiebreaker. I didn't think this was real when I first saw it. Weird.

Haha, same here. When I posted above I assumed that was a photoshopped picture and a fake article.

I feel stupid now.

Looks more like Mario Tennis. Boo won.

So, can Rafael finally win when 50-100% of the court is not made of clay? I'm hoping so, but thinking no. Everyone is just too ready to crown his ass, and Federer isn't the best ever for nothing. Whatever happens, I still think Fed has got to be the overwhelming favorite in New York, but this would be a huge step for Nadal.

ETA- On a different note, I have switched up my Williams sister allegiance. I always pulled for Serena before, but that girl is just so damn surly. Venus is much easier to root for.

Nadal thoroughly kicked his ass in the French that, the way he was playing on that day, he could have won in zero-gravity.

If Nadal's gonna get him on grass, this is the year.

Well, next year Rafa will be in the second year of his prime and Roger will be a year older, so there's that. I still think he's got a couple more years before he gets relegated to the "clay-court specialist" category... which is sort of the ghetto of grand slam champions.

That 4th set tie-break was spectacular.

Yep, that was some of the best tennis I've ever seen.

I'll say this. If Nadal doesn't get it done in the 5th, he won't beat Federer on grass/hardcourt in a match that matters ever. He's had all the opportunities he could ask for today to win.

Friggin' rain delays!

I'm not necessarily buying that. He's in the first year of his true prime. However, I think there'll always be an asterisk on the rivalry if he needs Fed to be on the downside of his career before he can beat him on grass. At this point I'm hoping they have to delay the match until tomorrow, because I've got to be away from the television

I don't really know a lot about the rivalry between these two, but I'm pulling for Federer because his Wilson racket sorta looks like the $20 Wilson racket I got from Target.

Federer is going to beat Rafa on clay before Rafa beats Federer on grass or hardcourt.

And now watch Federer lose.

This match is ridiculous.

Oh Come On

Damnit.

Moot point now, but that was amazing. Every time Federer needed an ace he came up with one, but in the end it was like the French.. just a few too many errors.

I didn't expect him to tighten up the way he did the last two games.

And there's been a lot of talk about "hyperbole" around the boards lately, but anything anyone can say about a film pales in comparison to sports announcers. "Changing of the guard". "Greatest of all time". "Will literally ascend to heaven on Jesus Christ's back".

That was phenomenal. Now I'm gonna throw my Wilson racket in the dumpster. Thanks a lot, Federer.

That was the Lawrence of Arabia of tennis. Goddamn.

wow. that was some intense tennis.

probably some of the best I have seen in my lifetime.

I think the last match that I found to be so memorable was that one match where sampras was vomiting his guts out in between games.

In the words of Super Dave Osborne: "I missed it."

I'm not a tennis fan at all but I came across the final and yeah, it was phenomenal.

I wanted Federer to win though!

U.S. Open semifinals, '96? Something like that. Yeah, puking in the 5th set tie-breaker against Corretja. That was something. Then there was the Sampras/Agassi match at the U.S. Open around '01 or '02, where neither of them ever broke the other's serve. That was something, too.

Of course, the gold standard of Wimbledon finals is the Borg/McEnroe match of 1980, with that insane 22 minute tie-break (16-18) in the 4th set.

I just watched the wrap-up special on ESPN 2. It's interesting that all three of their analysts seem to be picking a different guy to be the favorite at the Open. Brad Gilbert has fully partaken of the Nadal Kool-Aid, proclaiming him the heir to Sampras' grand slam throne. Or maybe he just really wants to be his next coach.

I feel like Federer is still going to be the guy to beat, considering Nadal hasn't gone beyond the quarterfinals in New York. There doesn't seem to be anybody else other than Djokovic who can contend regularly for slams, so I think Roger still has a great chance to beat Sampras title record.

I still haven't seen enough of that final set... unfortunately I don't have ESPN Classic.

My wife asked if this meant Roger was done, I told her no. In fact, if I were a betting man, I would put money on him winning the Open.

There has been a little noise about the fact that some of the greatest champions, guys like Borg and McEnroe, were done after the age of 25. But as I mentioned earlier, who else is going to take the titles from him? Tennis doesn't have the depth of the eighties, when Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Wilander, etc. were making sure that the Borg, McEnroe, Connors era was done. Djokovic is a bit of an unknown quantity to me, and I don't see Nadal going on the type of run Roger did. Sure, he could end up with a ton of majors, and I hope he does because he's fun as hell to watch play, but I don't get the sense that he's going to be dominant on hardcourt. Federer could conceivably get a major or two a year for another three or four years. Somebody else has to step up.

Sampras won 6 majors past the age of 25.

Agassi won 5 majors past the age of 28.

Sampras won 6 majors past the age of 25.

Connors won 4 majors past the age of 25.

Becker won the Australian Open at the age of 29.


I think Federer has a few more years of great play left in him. His era of absolute dominance is over but he could pick up three or four more majors over the next 3-4 years. Sampras, Agassi and Conners all won a major past the age of 30.

This era as of right now has two great players, one of which has yet to prove that he can win on hardcourts. Federer may never get his French Open title but I have no doubt that he will win at least two more majors (which would tie Sampras).

The biggest hurdle may not be his body but his mind. He may decide he's had enough and retire.

Yeah, I watched this since there wasn't shit else on TV. I'm not into tennis at all, so I had no fucking clue what was going on or who was winning until Nadal dropped it like it was hot on the court. Even still, that was a great matchup.

Yeah, I was wondering about Gilbert there when he predicted Nadal was going to win the U.S. Open, and even hinted that possibly he could make it to 15 slams before Federer (maybe I misheard him, because that's crazy talk right now...Nadal has 5, Federer has 12). Nadal's worst surface is hard court...he's still very good on it, but there's plenty of guys who can give him major trouble on hard court (which is what the U.S. and Australian Opens are played on), much more than there are on clay or grass.

Djokovic's best surface is hard court, and he's realistically got a pretty good chance against Federer on it (he beat him on hard court at this year's Aussie Open, and last year in the run-up to the U.S.). Federer will remain a huge threat on grass for three or four more years, barring injury. The guy's game is perfect for Wimbledon, and aside from Nadal I can't see very many upcoming grass threats on the tour. So yeah, it's very hard for me to imagine Federer not winning any more majors. And I definitely can't imagine him wilting away like Brad Gilbert seemed to be implying.

A few more notes-

The talk of Nadal dominating Federer head to head is a little misleading. Yeah he's up 12-6, but most of those were played on clay because Roger was good enough on his weakest surface to advance far enough to meet Rafael. Consider that most matches are played on hardcourt, yet they have met 10 times on clay as opposed to only 4 on hard, with Federer holding a 3-1 edge there. He also still holds a small edge on grass.

It's amazing what the last couple of months have done for Nadal. To use a dumb movie analogy, if you were writing a script about this decade in men's tennis, it went from being about Roger with Nadal appearing in a couple scenes, to him being a full-blown subplot, to now Rafa possibly being considered the co-star.

I'm not sure this loss hurts Federer that much in the long run. While any player would certainly prefer to mow through 20 slams and shatter the record, champions, at least in the minds of fans, are defined almost as much by their struggles as they are their successes. As long as Fed gets those last few, every other championship Nadal and possibly Novak win is going to give that record more weight.

There's no way I'd put anything on Nadal winning the Open.

Nadal has been so close to breaking through on grass for the last few years. The previous two years' finals at Wimbledon have been close. This year he barely edged Federer in what is being hailed as the greatest tennis match of all time. He owns Federer on clay. They are pretty even on grass. Federer is much better than Nadal on hardcourt. If Nadal manages to win the US Open or Australian, we can start to talk about a new era in the game. But right now, I think Federer is still the best in the world. No doubt, though, that this rivalry and the level of play it is producing is the best thing for the two players, the sport, and the fans.

And I agree with everything Bailey wrote in the last post.

For the most part, Federer owns the hardcourt (more specifically American hardcourts), and Nadal owns clay. The even match, as we've seen the last few years, is on grass. Even though this was Nadal's first victory, he's been close. The first between the two to cross into the other's territory will have the mental edge in future meetings. For the past five years Federer saw Wimbledon as his grounds, because it was, and if the rain delay didn't hit the fifth I still believe Federer would have ran away with it.

And whoever said that the 12-6 record Nadal has against Federer is misleading is completely correct. On his worst surface, Federer is still better than everyone in the world except Nadal.

Jesus- I went to bed after Rafa broke Verdasco to even the match. (That point before set point was amazing.) I wake up and the match is still going on. Can't wait to watch the rest of the highlights.

Anyway, everything sets up for Federer, but hopefully it will be another epic final between the two.

Yeah the Rafa/Verdasco match today was one of the best matches I have ever watched. They don't really like each other off the court and it was obvious they would both fight till the death today.

Some of the volleys late in the game will be replayed in years to come! I was really rooting for Verdasco, but the nerves got a hold of him in that last game!

Holy fuckin shit - I am currently watching Feddy vs Rafa in the Mens Final of the Aussie Open right now. Tennis is simply not played at a higher level than Im watching at this moment.

Regardless of what the outcome will be (we're halfway through the 4th set and Rafa leads 2 sets to 1 with Feddy ahead 3-2 in the 4th), anyone who digs tennis if you missed it should track this match down.

It's quite simply jaw dropping.

If Rafa takes this, this may be the official changing of the guard between these two while if Feddy gets it he equals Sampras total of 13 (ETA - sorry 14) grand slams.

Epic stuff.

ETA: Jesus and now we're heading into a 5th set. First time an aussie open mens final's gone to 5 since the inaugural hard court open in '88

This is simply one of the best matches Ive seen, and Ive been watching tennis my whole life.

I feel like I'm only taking a breath once every minute or so.

Holy Fuck, after taking an epic five hour semi just 48 hours ago, Nadal's taken it in the 5th, six fucking two, he's the aussie open champ - first spaniard to hold the title.

I think I've just seen a siesmic shift in mens tennis - something broke in Federer mentally in that last set, Nadal now officially has his number.

I just don't know how Rafa not only lasted the distance but fucking won after his incredible match less than 2 days ago. It's unbelievable.

Nice one Nadal. His training regime must be off the scale. 10 hours of tennis in 48 hours - at that level - is amazing. I played 4 hours yesterday and am still a bit sore. It was 5 degrees though.

If Federer had served better he might have had a chance. He's no longer a tennis god, He has to scrap and fight to win matches, whereas before he won effortlessly.

Fuck, high emotion from Feddy. Poor bugger.

We adore him down here.

Classy, gracious guy.

Obviousliy a helluva lot of liking and respect between Rafa and him as well. Great to see.

I really wish I'd seen those final sets (had to go to bed), especially the fifth. I'm a big Nadal fan, and I left at 4-4 in the third; with Pat McEnroe predicting that the fatigue was going to cost Rafa.

Fed should get to 14... maybe 15 if another major player doesn't emerge this year or next. He's still on track to be the best ever. He's playing incredible tennis. The changing of the guard, as it were, happened last year at Wimbledon; but to do it on hardcourt really confirms it. What this also does is solidify the notion that this era of men's tennis will be remembered for two of the best champions tennis has ever seen. For my money they're better than Sampras/Agassi.

I agree, after watching that match last night, thsesed two are better.

...and yeah there was Wimbledon last year but don't forget Federer wasn't playing at full capacity last year after being sick. This year tho, not only was he back to full strength but he'd had a three day break to Rafas 2 and hadn't had an over five our semi-ifinal barn burner to get over - AND this was hardcourt.

No I think what started in Wimbledon was finished here in Melbourne last night.

I think Feddy will reach and breach Sampras record - but honestly, barring injury, I see Rafa beating that a few years later anyway.

When Feddy was Rafas age he had two grand slam titles under his belt - Rafa now has six.

At this point, to me at least, it's a foregone conclusion that he's going to win in France, and he and Federer will be neck and neck at Wimbledon, but I still peg him as an outside chance at the U.S. Open. The hard court in Flushing Meadows plays more like grass than the courts in Melbourne where they can get a big stagnant and slow the game down (which is why you see so many long rallies at the Australian). In my mind it's between Djokovic and Federer at the U.S. until Nadal proves otherwise.

So, I don't think Rafa is going to complete the Slam, but he's the odds on favorite for the French and subsequently Wimbledon if he wins.

I guess it depends on how you look at it RD. When Nadal won in Wimbledon, it was clear he was the number one player in the world; which is why I called it the changing of the guard. Yeah, Federer had mono or something earlier in the year, but he was still playing well enough to push Rafa to five sets in the final and win the US Open- he was alright.

However, there is no question getting over on Federer on hardcourt is huge.

The big factor in all of this is the rest of the tour. I'm not convinced yet that Nadal is going to have the kind of utterly dominant run Federer had; if only because it's so hard to maintain. However, he's gotten an early start, so to speak, and if his prime extends to 27-28 years old, then he certainly could get 9 more. First things first, though. If Fed gets to 15, I think he needs to be called the greatest until somebody bests it... no matter how big an edge Rafa has on him head to head.

I just gotta say, other than watching the Phils kick ass last season, watching Nadal and Federer go head to head over the past couple years has been the most exciting thing in all of sports to me. I could watch Nadal play for days. The way he covers the court is just ridiculous. If he can keep this progress up, the sky is the limit for this kid.