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Study on NBA refs and a possible small racial bias in foul calling

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
I didn't see a thread about this yet, but it seemed to be all over the sporting news today.

What I found more interesting than the story, though, was the high proclivity of people with obviously no statistical background making claims about the lack of validity of these statistics.

It also annoyed me that everyone kept calling it an "experiment" when it was just an analysis of pre-existing data. That isn't an experiment.

Ah well, just another piece of evidence for the "the less you know, the more you think you know" meta-analysis.
post #2 of 35
The main argument against I saw was that the analysis was made of box scores, without factoring in which ref made particular calls. Still, I wouldn't doubt there is some validity to the study. And I find it strange that so many players and analysts are willing to dismiss this, while acknowledging we all have unconcious prejudices... as if nothing could be done to improve that.
post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 
Yeah, that at least is a reasonable concern (or at least a good question to bring up).

So, there are 4 possible ref combos (based on race):

3 black
3 non-black
2 black, 1 non-black
1 black, 2 non-black

In the first two you can obviously tell which "color" ref made the call. In the that last two, you obviously can't.

However, if there was no bias, you shouldn't see a difference between any groups. While being able to tell exactly which ref made the call would have enhanced their statistical analysis, not having that information does not negate the potential validity of their results.

You can easily reword this to avoid any misinterpretation as well... "groups" or ref are more likely to call fouls against players who are differently colored than the "group" of refs officiating the game.

The really ignorant comments I keep seeing and hearing everwhere, though, have to do with their being more black players, less black refs, etc. Most people are immediately dismissing the data because of that... and the ones who get past that get hung up on not knowing the individual refs that made the call.

I'm not saying that this is groundbreaking research or anything, I'm just saying that people need to realize that when they don't understand statistics, they should ask questions, not spew false nonsense.
post #4 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by kungfumonkeyboy
Yeah, that at least is a reasonable concern (or at least a good question to bring up).

So, there are 4 possible ref combos (based on race):

3 black
3 non-black
2 black, 1 non-black
1 black, 2 non-black

In the first two you can obviously tell which "color" ref made the call. In the that last two, you obviously can't.

However, if there was no bias, you shouldn't see a difference between any groups. While being able to tell exactly which ref made the call would have enhanced their statistical analysis, not having that information does not negate the potential validity of their results.

You can easily reword this to avoid any misinterpretation as well... "groups" or ref are more likely to call fouls against players who are differently colored than the "group" of refs officiating the game.

The really ignorant comments I keep seeing and hearing everwhere, though, have to do with their being more black players, less black refs, etc. Most people are immediately dismissing the data because of that... and the ones who get past that get hung up on not knowing the individual refs that made the call.

I'm not saying that this is groundbreaking research or anything, I'm just saying that people need to realize that when they don't understand statistics, they should ask questions, not spew false nonsense.
I got a C in statistical analysis so does that make me racist?
post #5 of 35
Okay, I'm dumb -- why wouldn't the fact that the NBA is predominantly comprised of black players affect the number of calls against black players?
post #6 of 35
because I assume the statistical analysis is probably averaged out properly over the differently colored populations? Because if there was no bias then the number of calls on black players would be constant no matter the racial composition of the ref team, while apparently the study indicates this is not the case?
post #7 of 35
Does the race of some officials and players impact some calls? Of course, I'm sure it does. But with thousands of calls made every year, I think it probably only happens at the margins.

My issue with this study is that it's being presented as proof of some kind of systematic racial bias among league officials. First, I just don't believe that this is true -- if it was, we'd have heard about it from players and coaches. Second, I don't think the study supports that conclusion. It says that race impacts, what, 4.5% of all calls? That percentage is so low that it can easily be written off as being inside a margin of error.
post #8 of 35
The most alarming part of this study concerns the league's lone female referee. 100% of the fouls she calls are against male players. Ridiculous.
post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Okay, I'm dumb -- why wouldn't the fact that the NBA is predominantly comprised of black players affect the number of calls against black players?
That's what Charles Barkley said on Dan Patrick yesterday. He ripped this study to shreds - it was funny. This study does nothing more than get the name of the group that did the study in the New York Times.

The NBA has records of every referee and who the called fouls on. I'm not a stats guy, but how can you determine who was calling the fouls? To add to that, many times ref A will start to call the foul, then discuss with ref B, who actually makes the call. So the foul was started with ref A, but ref B makes the call.

The majority of refs are white and the majority of players are black - so of course whites will call more fouls on blacks
post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
The most alarming part of this study concerns the league's lone female referee. 100% of the fouls she calls are against male players. Ridiculous.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Moltisanti again.
post #11 of 35
There may just be whistle-happy refs who call more fouls on everybody, and when you get three of them together, it skews the stats.
post #12 of 35
Here is a quote from an Ohio paper. I like Z's take on the issue.

Quote:
Lebron James quickly dismissed the accusation as ``stupid'' and Ilgauskas laughed at the notion.

``I'm a bad example. I'm the all-time leader in fouls here, so I get called by everybody,'' Ilgauskas said with a laugh. ``I don't think there's much to it, to be honest with you.''
post #13 of 35
Yeah, well, they don't like them forners neither.
post #14 of 35
Here is the NBA response. Which as you expected is a flat out denial. My favorite part of the story is below, the NY Times response which is essentially "Don't kill the messenger" approach.

Quote:
A statement from Tom Jolly, sports editor of The New York Times:
"We are confident that our article fairly and accurately reflects the findings of the Wolfers-Price study, and fairly and accurately reflects the NBA's response to that study. Over the course of three weeks of reporting, Alan Schwarz spent several hours meeting with NBA. executives to discuss the Wolfers-Price study and the league's own subsequent study.

As we reported, all of the data that was made available to us from both studies was reviewed at our request by three independent experts: Ian Ayres of Yale Law School, David Berri of California State University-Bakersfield and Larry Katz of Harvard University. They uniformly agreed that the Wolfers-Price study reflected a solid analytical approach and that the NBA's study was significantly flawed.

In fact, after studying the NBA. data, Katz, one of the nation's most respected economists, told us: "It was so poorly presented that it was hard to figure out what they were doing. And to the extent you could figure out what they were doing, there was such incoherence you couldn't draw any conclusions from it."
post #15 of 35
Did this study go in depth when it comes to technical fouls? That’s where you might see some real racial bias. Back when I played ball in High School I used to run my mouth a bit. If (If? More like "when") I started draining jumpers I’d be trash talking with a vengeance. Usually it was harmless stuff like “This is my court! I find you in contempt! Bailiff, remove him from my court!” But there were times when I’d say something like “I own you! I own you like my great grandpappy owned yours!” The white refs always chuckled at that but if a black ref heard it I was instantly T’d up.
post #16 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Okay, I'm dumb -- why wouldn't the fact that the NBA is predominantly comprised of black players affect the number of calls against black players?
Think of it this way... I'll use a simpler example just to make it so I can type less... but the point will be the same.

Let's say we want to see if red cars are pulled over more than blue cars (by police).

In some area there are 10000 red cars and 1000 blue cars. Of course, you would expect more red cars to be pulled over based on overall numbers. When run statistics to look for a bias, though, what you are looking at is more like a %.

If 1000 red cars get pulled over, that 10% of the red car population. From that, if there were no bias, we would expect 100 blue cars (approximately) to have been pulled over.

Let's say that only 15 cars got pulled over. We would call that a potential bias in favor of red cars getting pulled over.

No, what if 500 blue cars got pulled over? That was less in overall number than the 1000 red cars, but because the starting sample was smaller, we would say that it is evidence that there is actually a bias to pull blue cars over more often.
post #17 of 35
Besides just feeling like I was in a episode of N3umbers (if you watch the show, you'll get it), I may be reading the above wrong, but to equate to the model used - you would have to include information on the police pulling them over as well. It makes perfect sense why more blacks get fouls called on them, based off the percentage of black versus white players.

However, they only knew the three refs who called the game (and their race), but they don't know who called the foul. I can only assume they use an equation to split them up and assign the call. But in a game with one black and two white refs - what if the black ref called almost all of the fouls - I don't see how that information is used.

Not to mention, that the this a very touchy subject and to release a study based off an incomplete statistical analysis seems very careless. Unless of course you just wanted to raise a little ruckus.
post #18 of 35
What if black players actually do foul more? Did they ever think of that?
post #19 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors
Does the race of some officials and players impact some calls? Of course, I'm sure it does. But with thousands of calls made every year, I think it probably only happens at the margins. My issue with this study is that it's being presented as proof of some kind of systematic racial bias among league officials.
One study can't prove anything... in fact 1 million studies can't prove anything... all data can do for us is provide evidence to support something. There are more years to look at, though, more sports that can be looked at, and so on. In addition, it might be interesting to look at changes in these biases over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors
First, I just don't believe that this is true -- if it was, we'd have heard about it from players and coaches.
No, you can never trust anecdotal evidence, that is why scientists don't say, well, it LOOKS like the lungs on these mice are more damaged that this other group... they have to run the statistics. It is even worse when human opinions come into play. The human brain is a big, lieing, shortcut machine that unfortunately can't be trusted. And until we find a way to destroy it and its evil lies, we'll just have to study it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors
Second, I don't think the study supports that conclusion. It says that race impacts, what, 4.5% of all calls? That percentage is so low that it can easily be written off as being inside a margin of error.
If the "margin of error" overlapped with 0, then it would not be a significant finding (and thus, no bias found).

I've seen it presented as 2.5-4.5% in the New York Times article. I don't know if this is 1 standard error of the mean, or possibly a 95% confidence interval (which is what I would hope). That would mean that the actual bias they found was 3.5% with a 1% margin of error (of some sort, like I said above). That would be a statistically significant finding of a bias.

Now, some people bring up a good point... how big of a deal is that? They tried to answer that question after looking at both increased foul calls and reduction in productivity based on the possible bias (i.e., scoring, rebounding, etc. less) and found that it could cost about 2 games a season for every extra black player you have (I would assume that this number uses random ref groups drawn from the actual ref population... i.e., something representative of the actual ref sample... and also that it assume significant playing time, so a starter).

Seeing as most teams probably have similar racial makeups, the effect is probably small... but a 2-4 game swing can still matter come play-off time.

Also, there methodology to determine that 2 game swing per player is certainly not perfect, there is a margin of error around it as well, but it is still interesting to consider.

I also haven't read the actual paper, so I can't comment directly on it, but I hope that clears some things up.
post #20 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wehman
Besides just feeling like I was in a episode of N3umbers (if you watch the show, you'll get it), I may be reading the above wrong, but to equate to the model used - you would have to include information on the police pulling them over as well. It makes perfect sense why more blacks get fouls called on them, based off the percentage of black versus white players.
No, you are exactly right. Like I said, I was making an oversimplified example to get the main point across. You would actually have that other variable to account for as well (ref racial makeup). The same ideas apply, though, I just didn't want to type out a 2 page example to explain that, but that would also be accounted for.
post #21 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wehman
However, they only knew the three refs who called the game (and their race), but they don't know who called the foul. I can only assume they use an equation to split them up and assign the call. But in a game with one black and two white refs - what if the black ref called almost all of the fouls - I don't see how that information is used.
No, they didn't care about individuals. They had a 4 levels variable which I'll call Ref Team Racial Makeup with the 4 levels being:
3 black
2 black, 1 non-black
1 black, 2 non-black
3 white

They are only showing a bias in reffing "teams" not individuals. However, if there was no difference in individuals, with such a large sample, all the groups should end up being even in their foul call rates.

The other possibility is that whenever a mixed group is reffing, the minority ref makes almost all of the calls. That would throw this data off if it happened consistently... so it is something to consider. If it does happen, though, why would the minority ref make more of the calls? It also wouldn't explain the bias in the non-mized reffing teams.

In other words, it is a good question to bring up, but it would seem unlikely to matter (which means it should be looked into more).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wehman
Not to mention, that the this a very touchy subject and to release a study based off an incomplete statistical analysis seems very careless. Unless of course you just wanted to raise a little ruckus.
I do agree with this. If this happened in a more scientific field, the professor would very likely get at least minorly ostricized and no reputable journal would publish his paper. That actually hapenned recently... I think it was a biologist of some sort, although I don't recall the details. Ecomonics professors and journals might work differently, though.

But, yes, it should have been peer reviewed and published in a reputable journal before it made it to press. I do question that.
post #22 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan23
What if black players actually do foul more? Did they ever think of that?
Yep, that would be accounted for in the statistical analysis.

They are looking at changes in foul rates due to changes in ref team racial structure, and not overall foul numbers or rates in general.
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by kungfumonkeyboy

I've seen it presented as 2.5-4.5% in the New York Times article. I don't know if this is 1 standard error of the mean, or possibly a 95% confidence interval (which is what I would hope). That would mean that the actual bias they found was 3.5% with a 1% margin of error (of some sort, like I said above). That would be a statistically significant finding of a bias.
Yes, it's statistically significant, but only marginally so. Now, if they had found that white refs called fouls on blacks 15 or 20 percent more often, I might pay attention. But it seems to me that a few percentage points can just as easily be written off because of a suspect methodology (not knowing which refs called fouls on which players), as it can be used as an indication of biased officiating. I just think this thing's being overblown.

Anyway, like I said at the top, I'm sure bias (perhaps subconscious bias rather than outright bigotry) plays a role in some foul calls. I just think the number is very small, and this survey doesn't change my thinking on that.
post #24 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors
Yes, it's statistically significant, but only marginally so. Now, if they had found that white refs called fouls on blacks 15 or 20 percent more often, I might pay attention.
You are talking about the difference between statistical and practical significance. If they "did their math right," this appears to definitely be statistically significant.

You wouldn't be able to deny that, but you could then go on to argue that it is of low practical significance (which is what you are doing), but that is a different argument entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors
But it seems to me that a few percentage points can just as easily be written off because of a suspect methodology (not knowing which refs called fouls on which players), as it can be used as an indication of biased officiating. I just think this thing's being overblown.
See my post above about individual refs. This study makes no claims about individual refs, just about trios of refs and their racial makeup as a whole.

You still wouldn't expect to see any differences if there wasn't a bias somewhere, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe LeFors
Anyway, like I said at the top, I'm sure bias (perhaps subconscious bias rather than outright bigotry) plays a role in some foul calls. I just think the number is very small, and this survey doesn't change my thinking on that.
Sure, I agree that the bias is probably primarily "under the surface" and not outright bigotry.

Sure, this study of the data shows the number to be relatively small. That is why I said it would be interesting to do a timeline of the change in this bias. This could turn into something positive for the NBA. In other words, in the 80s, the refs were less than bias than they were in 70s, and in the 90s they were less bias than they were in the 80s, etc.

I wasn't even arguing about the importance of the study, however, just the misunderstanding of the statistical analyses that get used with data like these.
post #25 of 35
I haven't looked deep into this study, but I have looked deep into the nba for years, and I consider the conclusion of the study to be a fucking joke. If white players get called for fouls less it's because a higher percentage of them are dudes like Eric Piatkowski, Kyle Korver, or Steve Kerr who don't really do shit but spot up shoot. Of course they don't foul anyone. I think if anything black players get more calls in their favor via white guilt of the refs. They sure as fuck don't get called for traveling or carrying.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by swedish miyagi
I think if anything black players get more calls in their favor via white guilt of the refs. They sure as fuck don't get called for traveling or carrying.
I always thought it was the permeation of the playground style. Stars raised on urban blacktops who were given something of a pass because of their reputations and the excitement they brought to the game. But here it was white guilt all along. Who knew? Not sure what it has to do with foul calls, but I'm glad you're here to inform us what's what.
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Wehman
However, they only knew the three refs who called the game (and their race), but they don't know who called the foul. I can only assume they use an equation to split them up and assign the call. But in a game with one black and two white refs - what if the black ref called almost all of the fouls - I don't see how that information is used.
I've seen this assumption quite a bit, and while it would be nice to link a specific call to a specific ref, the underlying assumption is false. Whose to say that black referees aren't employing the same sort of racial bias themselves?
post #28 of 35
It seems to me that the difference is so slight and prone to a number of factors that it essentially falls within the standard deviation of analysis.

And, fwiw, I think the study is presented in a way that makes it appear like a bigger story. Arguably, the bigger question should be "which group is the most accurate?"

The difference, if it in fact exists, may be cultural. Would it surprise people if refs that grew up in the suburbs had a more "by the book" style of refereeing than urban refs who had more of a "let them play" mentality?
post #29 of 35
Such an easy thing to fix. New rule, no blood-no foul.
post #30 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
It seems to me that the difference is so slight and prone to a number of factors that it essentially falls within the standard deviation of analysis.
If the range they did give was the 95% confidence interval, you'd have to more than triple the variability in the data to make it not significant (at an alpha level of 0.05). If it was a single standard error measurement they gave, you'd still have to almost double the variability to "get rid of" the effect.

What factors would have that much of an effect on the variability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
And, fwiw, I think the study is presented in a way that makes it appear like a bigger story. Arguably, the bigger question should be "which group is the most accurate?"
I agree that that would be an interesting question. You do realize the near impossibility of that study, though, right? Unless the NBA has reliable data on that already collected (and who is deciding accuracy?), that could take years and years to analyze and double check everything even with a small team of people watching tape in all of their free time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
The difference, if it in fact exists, may be cultural. Would it surprise people if refs that grew up in the suburbs had a more "by the book" style of refereeing than urban refs who had more of a "let them play" mentality?
No, it wouldn't be surprising... but that shouldn't account for changes in the rates of fouls called depending on race. That should just result in a general increase (or decrease) in falls called by various individuals... which would have no effect on the results of the study (that gets factored out).
post #31 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNkaholic
I've seen this assumption quite a bit, and while it would be nice to link a specific call to a specific ref, the underlying assumption is false. Whose to say that black referees aren't employing the same sort of racial bias themselves?
I'm not sure I follow your point.

If black refs had the "same sort of racial bias" (to me that reads that they are also prejudice against blacks and call falls against them at a higher rate), then all refs should be pretty much the same, and the data would show no significant bias for any particular triad of ref color.

If you mean the "same sort of racial bias" as is bias against races that aren't them (i.e., whites), well that is indeed what the study found as well.
post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey
I always thought it was the permeation of the playground style. Stars raised on urban blacktops who were given something of a pass because of their reputations and the excitement they brought to the game. But here it was white guilt all along. Who knew? Not sure what it has to do with foul calls, but I'm glad you're here to inform us what's what.
I never said it was only white guilt, but yes I would bet a lot of money that is involved. You aren't sure what traveling and carrying calls have to do with foul calls? They are all calls made by nba officials. Not brain surgery to figure that out. As for adding excitement to the game by bending the rules, it would have been nice for the nba to give notice ahead of time to people who played basketball and followed the rules that the rules were going to change.
post #33 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by swedish miyagi
I never said it was only white guilt, but yes I would bet a lot of money that is involved.
So you dismiss an idea that at least has some sort of extensive analysis behind it, however inconclusive, yet put forth one based on nothing other than your own assumptions. While you're at it, why don't you explain how letter high pitches get called balls because of the rise of the welfare state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swedish miyagi
You aren't sure what traveling and carrying calls have to do with foul calls? They are all calls made by nba officials. Not brain surgery to figure that out.
They're two completely different types of calls, with totally different critieria applied, and one was studied while the other wasn't. Yeah, I can't imagine why I differentiated between the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swedish miyagi
As for adding excitement to the game by bending the rules, it would have been nice for the nba to give notice ahead of time to people who played basketball and followed the rules that the rules were going to change.
Give who notice? You? Hey, I think they might still be making good use of the two hand chest pass in the WNBA.
post #34 of 35
What length bus did you ride to elementary school?
post #35 of 35
Some brilliant stuff Molt. This study was hilarious and its nice to see unanimous sentiment that it is so.
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