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Practical make-up and effects at their finest

post #1 of 235
Thread Starter 
There's no doubt in my mind that CGI will always feel like an ugly cousin of practical effects and make-up to me. When they're good, their great and impossible to detect (American Werewolf in London's transformation scene). When their bad, they're great fun and have a lot of personality (Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2's head chopping scene).

In his commentary for the Fly, David Cronenberg said that the advantage of practical effects is that they have a physical presence and they exist in the same space as the actors. James Gunn said in an interview that practical effects are great because even when they don't look real, they're an actual work of art.

This thread will be an ongoing tribute to Practical effects throughout the ages.

Since it's the scene that inspired this thread, I'll start off with the transformation scene from American Werewolf in London. This scene is a masterpiece of editing and framing, not to mention the propwork and make-up effects. AND SOUND. The cut that does it for me is his hand stretching and extending, with that sickening bone crunching sound effect, then it cuts to a medium shot behind him with the same sound effect. But if you look carefully, the hand isn't growing anymore. But because the stretching was so slow, and because the subject (David twisting and writhing in agony) is so interesting, and because the shot is rather quick, you never notice that it's not stretching. And THAT cements the shot before it as reality.

Just an amazing sequence.
post #2 of 235
I think, when it comes to rubber suits, Creature From the Black Lagoon's splendid job is hard to outdo- not to mention the inspired idea of getting an olympic swimmer in it for the underwater sequences.

The Fountain is also worth a mention here, I think.
post #3 of 235
They still haven't beaten the transformation from American Werewolf. Not one movie has done a better job.

The Thing is another good example. It's pretty damn amazing how the effects stand up even today. It shows you things you've never seen before, and while a couple of pieces might be iffy (the Spider-Head scampering away looks a little laughable) on a whole, it's the sort of stuff that couldn't be done with CGI. It's gooey, gory and real, and you fear for these characters and wonder what the fuck they're going to do against such a creature.

As far as gore effects go, I still think Day of the Dead stands at the front of the pack. There's effects in it that you'll never figure out how he did.... like the brain-stem man. The intestines falling out of the zombie, Dr. Tongue, the necks being ripped out, and of course, the end of Rhodes. It's grisly and realistic, and still really hasn't been beaten.
post #4 of 235
While not exactingly real, the miniature and suit work in the Godzilla films is an indispensible part of their charm.
post #5 of 235
I'd always preferred the practical dog in a rubber suit (in the making of) to the CGI Xenomorph in Alien3.
post #6 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xagarath Ankor
I think, when it comes to rubber suits, Creature From the Black Lagoon's splendid job is hard to outdo- not to mention the inspired idea of getting an olympic swimmer in it for the underwater sequences.

The Fountain is also worth a mention here, I think.
The Fountain doesn't rely on CGI, but it's effects are mostly optical and are inserted using computers, so I feel it doesn't really apply. It's the same reason I don't mention Jason and the Argonauts. Some of the most beloved effects of all time, so rich in personality and they really define the world of that movie, but they're achieved through stop motion and blue-screen rather than practical effects.
post #7 of 235
AWIL won the first regular Oscar for Best Makeup; it wasn't a category before that and was only given out as a special award. Rick Baker did an incredible job.

And it's in a shit movie, but Baker's make-up on Tim Roth in Planet of the Apes is astonishing on a technical level.
post #8 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello
They still haven't beaten the transformation from American Werewolf. Not one movie has done a better job.

The Thing is another good example. It's pretty damn amazing how the effects stand up even today. It shows you things you've never seen before, and while a couple of pieces might be iffy (the Spider-Head scampering away looks a little laughable) on a whole, it's the sort of stuff that couldn't be done with CGI. It's gooey, gory and real, and you fear for these characters and wonder what the fuck they're going to do against such a creature.
You took the words right out of my mouth, bossman. The effects in The Thing are so goddamn great, and it's a testament to Bottin's genius that they still have an impact in this day and age. The sled dog sequence astounds me every time I watch it, as does the defibrilator (sp?) scene.
post #9 of 235
How about practical effects simulating CGI, as in Escape From New York?

Seriously though, like Cronenberg said, practical effects are so, uh, effective because they have a real weight and presence. In the right lighting they look amazing (Rick Baker had huge balls to make American Werewolf's transformation in a brightly-lit room), while CGI can only approximate the lighting conditions, with varying degrees of success. I've also noticed CGI tends to look horrible on DVD where the brighter picture and higher contrast makes CGI characters and effects stand out from their backgrounds (Blade, Resident Evil, and indeed An American Werewolf in Paris are particularly egregious examples). When filmmakers started heavily using CGI effects in the mid-nineties, everything looked worse than it did with practical effects, and is just now coming back to looking better as the technology evolves (I don't care, the opening shot of Revenge of the Sith is one of my all-time "holy shit" theatrical experiences). It's kind of like how movies got really stiff and stagey when they started making talkies, as once sound was introduced filmmakers were forced to abandon the camera movement they had been using, until sound technology evolved to free the camera again.

Even crude make-up looks great when shot and lit the right way. Look at Fulci's zombies, especially in Zombie. They're some guys with clay and dirt thrown onto their faces almost at random but they look so filthy and creepy.
post #10 of 235
When Tommy Lee Jones gets stabbed in the head in Under Siege. Has any other movie come close?
post #11 of 235
With all due respect to Rick Baker and his terrifying collaborations with Eddie Murphy, the king will always be Rob Bottin. His werewolf design for The Howling set the modern standard, his work on Legend fooled us all into thinking it was a great movie, and The Thing just speaks for itself.
A lot of the greats from the 80's carved their own niches for themsleves. Savini was great with the gore, Winston designed some wonderful creatures, and Baker was a latex savant. But Bottin could do it ALL.
post #12 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by le Stephanois
When Tommy Lee Jones gets stabbed in the head in Under Siege. Has any other movie come close?
Corkscrew to the head in Out For Justice?
post #13 of 235
Savini in Dawn of the Dead, anyone?
post #14 of 235
I think a good example of physical effects holding up while the optical effects became laughably outdated would be Chuck Russell's remake of The Blob.

Rewatched it recently and the physical effects utilized in the death scenes are still awesome to behold. The phone booth scene, the guy getting sucked down the drain, the quarterback's death...wonderful stuff.
post #15 of 235
Yes to (1) "American Werewolf in London", (2) "The Thing" and (3) "The Blob". I'll also add "Return of the Living Dead". The Tarman is just so damned effective and disturbing.

Also, the optical effects in "The Blob" aren't completely terrible. It's just that there are a few that are wretched.
post #16 of 235
Thread Starter 
Return of the Living Dead is an example of really fun effects with lots of personality. The shot of the zombie looking up, saying "Brains?", eyes widening will forever be stuck in my conciousness.
post #17 of 235
I just watched Videodrone again, and you know what? A CGI stomach-vagina wouldn't have worked. (never mind that it was made in 1983) There's something so unsettling about seeing Woods sticking things in there.

Of course, sound has a lot to do with making effects work, as well. The right amount of cracks and gloops help push any effect over the top.
post #18 of 235
There is another great werewolf transformation in The Company of Wolves. I haven't seen it in a while so I'm not sure how it has aged (released in 1984), but it was amazing for it's time.

And I completely agree regarding the incredible work on Tim Roth in POTA. If only the rest of the film had lived up to that potential...
post #19 of 235
I have never been more impressed by makeup than I was by Tim Curry in Legend.

post #20 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
Savini in Dawn of the Dead, anyone?
Or Day of the Dead. Or Creepshow, which has my favorite zombie ever, Nathan Grantham.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
Return of the Living Dead is an example of really fun effects with lots of personality. The shot of the zombie looking up, saying "Brains?", eyes widening will forever be stuck in my conciousness.
It's a classic, but some of the zombies look pretty shoddy, especially that completely skeletonized one that opens it eyes(!) when it emerges from the grave. The make-up artist on that movie got fired for that one, IIRC.
post #21 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattioli
Yes to (1) "American Werewolf in London", (2) "The Thing" and (3) "The Blob". I'll also add "Return of the Living Dead". The Tarman is just so damned effective and disturbing.
Funny, was just writing a review of the new Return of the Living Dead sequel (hint: it won't be positive)

You know they used a Tarman in it, also? And managed to completely fuck up what made it look so great? Swear, it looks like a kid in a Halloween costume now. Part of it was the original actor, of course, who did that great boneless walk, but this Tarman doesn't even really drip. Piece of shit movie.
post #22 of 235
Thread Starter 
Sound design is so important and I feel it's the reason a lot of ameteurr slasher flicks don't have the same umph to em. You don't need a big budget, or even good acting, to make your slasher flick enjoyable but you need more than one stock "knife slash" sound effect.

I wouldn't do a cheapie slasher unless I had:
A. A good and creative make-up guy
B. A decent foley artist
C. A good editor
D. A girl willing to show her breasts for prolonged periods of time (none of this one quick shot of nipples bullshit)

Once I had all those, I'd say it's time to start working on a script.
post #23 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Jim Slade
Or Day of the Dead. Or Creepshow, which has my favorite zombie ever, Nathan Grantham.
Day is most definitely Savini's opus. Rhodes death marked a peak in practical gore that has yet to be surpassed. And Creepshow's Nathan was cool until he moved his mouth.
post #24 of 235
He may not have walked very convincingly, but they somehow made me believe E.T. was real back in 1982. To me, Carlo Rambaldi's work on that little bugger still holds up.
post #25 of 235
One of the other I guess neat little things about practical effects is that you know somewhere in someones basement someone has an original Thingified dog monster, or a life sized Brundle fly puppet. So in a way these things exist in our world not just the movie one.

There's also a certain realistic clumsiness to a puppet, or a guy in a suit, or a mushy head explosion.
post #26 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello
The right amount of cracks and gloops help push any effect over the top.
As mentioned above, that's part of what makes David's transformation in "American Werewolf" so effective. It sounds so damn painful. In fact, the sound work in that movie is, collectively, quite effective. I find the scene in which Jack is torn to shreds to be one of the most horrifying scenes in a horror movie: you see very little of the attack itself (the camera goes with David when he takes off), but the sounds of Jack screaming and the tearing and rending... ugh. Brutal.

As for the "Return" sequels, I started to watch "Necropolis" but had to give up after it induced hives. And, Alex, you hit another nail on the head: Trautman sells the Tarman with his shambling, boneless, disjointed walk. So cool and creepy.
post #27 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graynadian
I have never been more impressed by makeup than I was by Tim Curry in Legend.


This and Meg Mucklebones.
post #28 of 235
I'll also add Emil bursting like a rotten pumpkin during the factory shootout in "Robocop".
post #29 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by horrid
One of the other I guess neat little things about practical effects is that you know somewhere in someones basement someone has an original Thingified dog monster, or a life sized Brundle fly puppet. So in a way these things exist in our world not just the movie one.
That would be Bob Burns.
post #30 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Gracie Lou
There is another great werewolf transformation in The Company of Wolves. I haven't seen it in a while so I'm not sure how it has aged (released in 1984), but it was amazing for it's time.
I remember the transformation of the main antagonist in Company of Wolves as being fantastic - though I have seen it in a while also. The transformations at the banquet scene, not so much, unfortunately. What a great little movie...
post #31 of 235
The Exorcist has some effects which haven't aged well, but I haven't seen anything in CGI that could beat the physicality of the bed thumping, the walls cracking and a lot of the bodily thrashing. Also the real coldness of the bedroom and its effect on the actors... good stuff.
post #32 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xagarath Ankor
I think, when it comes to rubber suits, Creature From the Black Lagoon's splendid job is hard to outdo- not to mention the inspired idea of getting an olympic swimmer in it for the underwater sequences.
I've always liked that Sid and Marty Krofft recruited UCLA basketball players who wanted to earn some extra cash to play the sleestak on Land of the Lost. Clever guys... demented, but clever.
post #33 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
Sound design is so important and I feel it's the reason a lot of ameteurr slasher flicks don't have the same umph to em. You don't need a big budget, or even good acting, to make your slasher flick enjoyable but you need more than one stock "knife slash" sound effect.

I wouldn't do a cheapie slasher unless I had:
A. A good and creative make-up guy
B. A decent foley artist
C. A good editor
D. A girl willing to show her breasts for prolonged periods of time (none of this one quick shot of nipples bullshit)

Once I had all those, I'd say it's time to start working on a script.
I'll go one further, Patrick. You need a sound team that is completely sold on the project. You bring your sound designer in very early. He needs to start coming up with sound almost immediately. He'll bring his team of FX and Foley guys with him and they need to be in constant contact with the director and the production sound guy. He should also be allowed at the dailies so he can update his team as to what is being shot and what they are going to have to cover iwth foley, bgs, and fx.

Then you need the best music guy your budget will allow...
post #34 of 235
Don't forget Savini's head getting blown away in MANIAC.
Probably the most realistic-seeming headshot ever filmed.
post #35 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciccina
I've always liked that Sid and Marty Krofft recruited UCLA basketball players who wanted to earn some extra cash to play the sleestak on Land of the Lost. Clever guys... demented, but clever.
Yes! I cracked up when I saw Bill Laimbeer in the credits.
post #36 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Collins
Don't forget Savini's head getting blown away in MANIAC.
Probably the most realistic-seeming headshot ever filmed.
Can't believe I forgot that one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOIBa4UKNhc
post #37 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Collins
Don't forget Savini's head getting blown away in MANIAC.
Probably the most realistic-seeming headshot ever filmed.
Holy hell, I've never seen this movie before. So, of course, it's not available on Netflix.
post #38 of 235
This thread needs some discussion of hilariously bad make-up effects too, like the overwrought transformation scene in The Beast Within, which is pure latex masturbation. Shot of actor panting, convulsing and drooling with latex appliances. Shocked reaction (i.e. cutaway "dog shot" to hide transition to different make-up). Shot of fake head expanding with bladder effects. Shocked reaction. Repeat for three full minutes with blaring "THIS IS SCARY" music.
post #39 of 235
You can probably troll the internet for the vhs copy. Or a dvd bootleg.
post #40 of 235
There are at least 2 official dvd's of Maniac released already (and a Blue Underground version coming soon), shouldn't be impossible to find a certain video stores.
post #41 of 235
Savini's headshot was the latest CHUD kill. And the DVD is out in stores again.
post #42 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Collins
There are at least 2 official dvd's of Maniac released already (and a Blue Underground version coming soon), shouldn't be impossible to find a certain video stores.
The Blue Underground one is out! Came out in January.... lots of good extras. Nothing like that poster, man. Don't think that a guy holding a severed head with a raging hard-on would get oked by the MPAA these days.
post #43 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Collins
There are at least 2 official dvd's of Maniac released already (and a Blue Underground version coming soon), shouldn't be impossible to find a certain video stores.
Yep, I found it on Amazon and have placed an order. Still, stupid Netflix.
post #44 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Riviello
Don't think that a guy holding a severed head with a raging hard-on would get oked by the MPAA these days.
Know what I love about that box art? He's holding a knife. Not an axe or a chainsaw. He took that head off with a KNIFE. That requires a level of skill and determination you just don't find in maniacs these days.
post #45 of 235
Joe Spinnell was in it to win it.

I don't think all the splatter effects hold up all that well. Savini's scalping trick, though? Man.
post #46 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
Know what I love about that box art? He's holding a knife. Not an axe or a chainsaw. He took that head off with a KNIFE. That requires a level of skill and determination you just don't find in maniacs these days.
Daniel Pearl would disagree.
post #47 of 235
How about Alien? The facehugger bursting out of the egg and the chestburster scene are both masterfully done and genuinely scary.
post #48 of 235
Chocalate Chip Charlie's demise in The Stuff haunted me as a child.
post #49 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
How about Alien? The facehugger bursting out of the egg and the chestburster scene are both masterfully done and genuinely scary.
Great filmmaking, and a classic movie moment, but the actual effects have not held up so well.
post #50 of 235
Videodrome was mentioned earlier. The scene that sticks out to me is the head bashing towards the end. That seems to hold up pretty well today. I think there's some impressive sound design happening there as well.
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