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Should Child Rape Warrant The Death Penalty?

post #1 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:00pm
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure if there was a thread about this, but:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/05/23/ch....ap/index.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN.com
NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (AP) -- Louisiana's Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that a man may be executed for raping an 8-year-old girl, and lawyers say his case may become the test for whether the nation's highest court upholds the death penalty for someone who rapes a child.

Both sides say the sentence for Patrick Kennedy, 42, could expand a 1977 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that held the death penalty for rape violated the Eighth Amendment protection against cruel and unusual punishment. The high court said then that its ruling applied only to adult victims.

Attorney Jelpi Picou, director of the New Orleans-based Capital Appeals Project, said he will ask the Louisiana Supreme Court for a rehearing and, if rejected, will go to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"As horrid as (rape) is and as harshly as we believe it should be condemned, death is inappropriate in this case," Picou said.

Louisiana law allows the death penalty for the aggravated rape of someone less than 12 years old.

"He's the only person in the United States on death row for non-homicide rape," Picou said.

Kennedy was convicted in 2003 of raping a relative as she sorted Girl Scout cookies in the garage of her home in suburban New Orleans. He bragged to one man that the girl "became a lady today," deputies said.
I'm not sure how I feel about this, actually. Thoughts?
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post #2 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:01pm
No, for exactly the same reasons no other crime warrants it.
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post #3 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:03pm
I'm not sure it it warrants it, but the guy is totally dead meat in pirson anyways.
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post #4 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabass Inna Bun
No, for exactly the same reasons no other crime warrants it.
Totally agree. If your standards don't hold up when confronted with extreme cases, what's the point of having them at all?
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post #5 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:11pm
People who say, "I don't support capital punishment but . . ." support capital punishment.
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post #6 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:15pm
Thread Starter 
I'm ambivalent about the death penalty in general, so that's why I asked. Personally, if someone's murdered, that's at the very least where you start talking about it, and someone who survives a rape doesn't qualify.

I know all the arguments that you're about to trot out, so save your energy. I agree with most, hell, pretty much all of them. But at the same time, there's some pretty damn heinous crimes out there that makes me ambivalent about the whole thing.
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post #7 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:32pm
I wasn't going to trot anything out. I just answered the question.
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post #8 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:34pm
Texas is trying to get the death sentence for all convicted child-rapes.
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post #9 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:35pm
Oh, and I don't agree with it. Killing someone obviously doesn't reverse what has happened before, so what's the point?
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post #10 of 48
5/23/07 at 3:45pm
I am from the "Just epoxy-glue his cock and sack to a floor, and light the room ablaze... Hand him a knife, and let him make the decision" camp.
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post #11 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:00pm
As a father of two daughters, having something like this kind of thing happen is my worst nightmare. But I still think that we should ban the death penalty in all cases. Lock them up forever? I'm OK with that.
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post #12 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:01pm
I don't think the guy should get the death penalty. That being said, if someone happens to push this shitstain in front of a bus after he leaves his sentencing hearing, it's not like I'm going to be upset.
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post #13 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:05pm
I feel like my post from before is kind of retarded. Just to elaborate, I am against the death penalty in all cases. It only adds to the violence that is running rampant in our culture. Lock up these guys forever, fine, or try to reform the prison system, somehow, though I don't know anything about that subject, so I can't really comment on it. But just killing criminals makes things worse, I think.
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post #14 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:22pm
Go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

"Death penalty" in cases like this should only be administered by the family of the victim.
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post #15 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:42pm
the death penalty obviously does not reverse the crime, but the point is that you ensure that he will never do it again. I can see both sides, but lets be honest, when someone does something that evil to someone so young, do you really think he can be rehabilitated? Do you want to take that chance? And is taking a mans freedom from him by life in prison really worse than taking his life (after a fair trial) for a crime this heinous?
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post #16 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:47pm
From what I know (and all I know about prison life is what I saw in Ricochet), child molesters are generally raped and tortured the most by the general populace. So it's possible to rule out the death penalty and still satiate your primal bloodlust. I'm fine with that.
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post #17 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:50pm
If you advocate the death penalty for other crimes, I don't see why you would have a hard time advocating it for this. I mean, do you only kill people who kill other people? Do you only kill people who do 'really bad stuff'?

If you define it as "really bad stuff" how do you know where the line is for what's "really bad"? Only having a death penalty for those who kill is a clean and easy line to draw but maybe one that, if you are an advocate of the death penalty, does exclude some people you might feel warrant it.

Of course this all avoids the obvious "Should the death penalty even be used?" argument which I'm sure there is already a thread about.
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post #18 of 48
5/23/07 at 4:54pm
Life in prison and castration's good enough for me. The general prison population will definitely take care of the rest.
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post #19 of 48
5/23/07 at 5:11pm
The day he becomes a lady would be something everyone should see.
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post #20 of 48
5/23/07 at 5:35pm
No death penalty ever. Too many innocents have been killed because of it.

Plus... isn't there some saying about one of the best ways to see how civilized a country is, is to look at how they tread their prisoners?
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post #21 of 48
5/23/07 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomstick
... isn't there some saying about one of the best ways to see how civilized a country is, is to look at how they tread their prisoners?
Beautiful. Preserved here for posterity...
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post #22 of 48
5/23/07 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crow
Life in prison and castration's good enough for me. The general prison population will definitely take care of the rest.
How do you know he's not busy buggering teenage car thieves in the joint? Maybe he's having a great old time.
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post #23 of 48
5/23/07 at 7:31pm
The idea of killing someone has always bothered me. To me it seems like an easy way out for the convicted if they are guilty and sad end to innocent folk.

But at the same time it bothers me that vicious criminals can live the rest of their lives with a roof over their head, clean clothes, and 3 meals a day when children and families huddle inside their cars and streets night after night.
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post #24 of 48
5/23/07 at 7:39pm
No. Seabass and DaveB have already said why. A nation, any nation, calling itself civilized, should not execute its own citizens.
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post #25 of 48
5/23/07 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
No. Seabass and DaveB have already said why. A nation, any nation, calling itself civilized, should not execute its own citizens.
I like to approach the other way with the more libertarian, "if you don't trust the government to spend its taxes, why do you trust it to kill its citizens?"
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post #26 of 48
5/23/07 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader
The idea of killing someone has always bothered me. To me it seems like an easy way out for the convicted if they are guilty and sad end to innocent folk.

But at the same time it bothers me that vicious criminals can live the rest of their lives with a roof over their head, clean clothes, and 3 meals a day when children and families huddle inside their cars and streets night after night.
People put on death row live longer than the average American adult. Think about that. Then implode.
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post #27 of 48
5/24/07 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
No. Seabass and DaveB have already said why. A nation, any nation, calling itself civilized, should not execute its own citizens.
That sounds a litte trite to me. And I'm not trying to insult anyone by saying that.

As a statement, that's fine. But I think that it presupposes some things, which as I think through it,, can be summed up as "civilized nations are comprised of civilized people".
There is a social contract in place. If you place yourself outside of that contract, then you remove yourself from its protections. The extent to which you stray will influence the punishment that you receive.

In theory capital punishment is in play. But only if we can be sure that it can be applied fairly, evenly, and correctly. I still have a major issue with the criminal justice system as set up, and would have lot of difficulty in advocating its use.

But it strkes me from what I read that we're not talking about someone who claims to be innocent and may be put to death incorrectly. That fact doesn't appear to be in dispute. All we're discussing is whether or not it's heinous enough to warrant execution. And I believe that a valid argument can be made for that.
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post #28 of 48
5/25/07 at 4:44am
The death sentence is never justified. Not for murderers and definitely not for rapists. We're supposed to be better than this. Capital punishment ,I believe, puts the state and the people in the place of a serial killer, in that it only serves to make them feel better.

I don't know if the same hierarchy exists in US prisons as in Greek ones, but here child rapists are bottom of the totem pole. I remember a few years back there was a high profile case here, where a father raped and murdered his son. It became a circus. When he was being transfered to jail to wait for his trial the cameras caught a glimpse of him through a small window. He was beaten to a fucking pulp either by the police or the other inmates. For (just) a second I couldn't help but feel bad for the guy. About a month later he "committed suicide" in his cell. I certainly didn't feel justice was served in that case. It only served to help unrelated people feel good about someone dying without any guilt involved.
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post #29 of 48
5/25/07 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
From what I know (and all I know about prison life is what I saw in Ricochet), child molesters are generally raped and tortured the most by the general populace. So it's possible to rule out the death penalty and still satiate your primal bloodlust. I'm fine with that.
Amen to that, Bob Clark.

It seems to me that the DP and/or incarceration is meant as a deterrent for those hosting such sick thoughts, not to change what has occurred. As far as revenge? I cannot imagine feeling any better if I strangled the sad shit with my bare hands in the event it was my child. Closure maybe, who knows? I haven't traveled that road and hope never to.

"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." etc.

Putting them in General Pop is an awesome head thump to those who might be considering raping a fucking child.

Its a win-win situation.
I will rejoice either way.
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post #30 of 48
5/25/07 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackstar
That sounds a litte trite to me. And I'm not trying to insult anyone by saying that.
It's not about being 'civilized' or not. The death penalty is expensive, it doesn't serve as a deterrent, and there's a not-insignificant chance that you've got the wrong guy, that's all.
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post #31 of 48
5/25/07 at 7:09pm
I'm pretty sure that child molester's and rapists have some of the highest rate of recitivism. Also these types of criminals are often gone soft on because they may not be "mentally competent" to stand trial. I say that if you are for the death penalty for murderers, than rapists and pedophiles may as well be on that block. Some might say it's cruel and unusual because they didn't actually kill anyone, but is getting raped themselves somehow less cruel and unusual?

"Criminal's thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding."
-Henri Ducard/Ra's Al Ghul(Batman Begins)
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post #32 of 48
5/25/07 at 7:16pm
So raping a child merits the death penalty, but raping an adult woman doesn't? I wonder how the adult woman would feel about that.

I'm not a big fan of saying this type of Crime X is worse than this other type of Crime X. It's like the whole hate crime thing -- is someone more dead if they're killed because they're gay/black/Asian/whatever than if they're just killed for no reason?
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post #33 of 48
5/25/07 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaPabLe
I'm pretty sure that child molester's and rapists have some of the highest rate of recitivism. Also these types of criminals are often gone soft on because they may not be "mentally competent" to stand trial. I say that if you are for the death penalty for murderers, than rapists and pedophiles may as well be on that block. Some might say it's cruel and unusual because they didn't actually kill anyone, but is getting raped themselves somehow less cruel and unusual?

"Criminal's thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding."
-Henri Ducard/Ra's Al Ghul(Batman Begins)
What we have here is a complete lack of understanding with regards to the US Criminal Justice system.
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post #34 of 48
5/25/07 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt
What we have here is a complete lack of understanding with regards to the US Criminal Justice system.
You're just upset that you haven't ever thought to quote Batman Begins in your arguments for or against capital punishment.
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post #35 of 48
5/25/07 at 8:02pm
I figured that quote would vault me towards the upper eschelon. It is Neeson after all.

Dickson, I never made the distinction that raping a child was any different than raping an adult.

Devildoubt, when I said that many are found to be not mentally competent enough to stand trial, what I meant was they are not given as harsh of a sentence due to whatever psychological condition and are often sent to rehabilitation rather than prison. Totally different, I know, should have used that edit button.
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post #36 of 48
5/25/07 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaPabLe
Dickson, I never made the distinction that raping a child was any different than raping an adult.
Not saying you did, I was questioning the logic of the Louisiana Supreme Court.
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post #37 of 48
5/25/07 at 8:12pm
Good for you.
Capital crimes often bankrupt cities/counties/states, is that why you are anti CP? Or....
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post #38 of 48
5/25/07 at 8:19pm
At this point I just stand back and wonder,
"How ya gonna fix the world, oh ye of answers"
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post #39 of 48
5/25/07 at 9:36pm
I think things that commit this type of crime should have there balls cut off and there dicks replaced with a plastic tube.I don't believe in the death penalty for anything but I'm more then fine with cruel and unusual punishment in cases like this.
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post #40 of 48
5/30/07 at 10:45pm
Yep. Kill all rapists. They gave up their right to be treated like a human being by doing such a vile act.

Death Penalty is a deterrent, THAT person will never harm anyone again.
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post #41 of 48
5/31/07 at 1:20am
u god?
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post #42 of 48
5/31/07 at 1:51am
Jesus, I dunno. This kind of crime is despicable but I'm not a huge fan of the death penalty in the first place.

Also, people who were assaulted as kids grow up to have all kinds of psychological problems not the least of which is an unwarranted feeling of guilt. I can't imagine knowing the attacker has been put to death is going to quell that response. Especially if said attacker is a family member, which is often the case.
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post #43 of 48
5/31/07 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu
No. Seabass and DaveB have already said why. A nation, any nation, calling itself civilized, should not execute its own citizens.

There is no such thing as a civilized nation though.
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post #44 of 48
5/31/07 at 3:20pm
the death penalty solves nothing.
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post #45 of 48
5/31/07 at 8:46pm
I think it was another Georgia case (Coker vs Ga) that struck out the death penalty for rape cases.

I believe one of the reasons given was the reasoning that having the death penalty for those cases would encourage the rapist to go ahead and kill the victim; if they are going to get the death penalty anyways they might as well not leave a witness.

I remember there being other reasons for the decision but that one always stood out to me.
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post #46 of 48
6/1/07 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal
I think it was another Georgia case (Coker vs Ga) that struck out the death penalty for rape cases.

I believe one of the reasons given was the reasoning that having the death penalty for those cases would encourage the rapist to go ahead and kill the victim; if they are going to get the death penalty anyways they might as well not leave a witness.

I remember there being other reasons for the decision but that one always stood out to me.
Good point, Royal.
In the state of GA, there was the case of Julie Love. Can't remember the exact date but the year was around 88-89. She was raped, robbed and murdered. Christ, I wore a button that read "find Julie Love" for months on end..

They found her body and come to find out, the "Guilty One" had raped and cut the throat of another that he had done time on.
She lived ( the first one) and crawled out of a deserted cul-de-sac and fingered him.
So he walked.......BECAUSE he didn't kill her properly.

These days we have awesome DNA.
Rape'em, there's a chance at Life.
Kill'em, ya gotta die.

I don't think you and I disagree at all.

DP or not, just NEVER release them.
Life with no Parole for rape . You just can't fix them sick fucks, nor would I elect to take a chance on it.
Period.

(Not directed at Royal here)
Having said that,
Coddle them, attempt to rehabilitate them, snuff them.....hell SUCKLE them.
Just don't cut them loose.
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post #47 of 48
6/1/07 at 1:54pm
I think if you are going to use the death penalty, this is as good of a place as any to use it.

Unfortunately, I can't support the death penalty at the moment because of flaws in the system (i.e., too great a chance of an innocent person being convicted). Well, I shouldn't even say flaws in the system. The system will never be perfect.

Now... if we want to change this from the "real" world to an idealistic one where we know with 100% certainty if someone committed a crime... then I'm not sure where I stand on the death penalty. I honestly haven't given it enough thought.
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post #48 of 48
6/1/07 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by witchesbrew
These days we have awesome DNA.
Rape'em, there's a chance at Life.
Kill'em, ya gotta die.

I don't think you and I disagree at all.

DP or not, just NEVER release them.
Life with no Parole for rape . You just can't fix them sick fucks, nor would I elect to take a chance on it.
Period.

(Not directed at Royal here)
Having said that,
Coddle them, attempt to rehabilitate them, snuff them.....hell SUCKLE them.
Just don't cut them loose.
Why do you post like you write lyrics ? Is this a poem ? Or rap ?
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