How Many of you Cannot Swim: Any Particular Reason? - Page 2

When I was 6 my parents had me take swimming lessons (because little did I know my parents were buying us an inground pool).

Having a swimming pool in your yard every summer during vacation growing up was probably the coolest thing ever. Of course, my family never went on vacations except to visit family either so its a toss up.

Oh and I graduated from UNC-CH where passing a swim test was mandatory. From what I understand, many people could not pass the test, so now as of 2007 its not mandatory any more.

It could save your life sometime, get in there and learn.

It's harder for me to understand people that don't like frollicking about in the water than people that don't know how to swim.

I mean, you never learnt and that's okay. But how can you not enjoy just chilling at a pool, or bomb-diving next to someone?



Anyway, swimming is a perfect sport fo rpeople that don't like to work out, like me. It gets rid of le beer belly, and having done it for years in my youth has given me broad shoulders and a large thorax. Cool.

Try contacting your local Masters swimming groups. That's where I went to get organized swim coaching (I still am a terrible swimmer but much better than before!) and they always had a few real beginner adults. They can also connect you with private trainers if swimming in the lane next to experienced adults embarrasses you (which it shouldn't).

In Australia most of the cities are on the coast so we all get flung into the water as soon as is humane.
It's kind of like a Spartan ritual- If you can't swim straight away you are left to die so the weak don't flourish.

Well, as many capable swimmers may not realize... it is hard to have fun when you are constantly fearing for your life in those situations.

Therefore, it is was fun, non-swimmers would never know because they can't get over their fear and discomfort to realize the fun potential.

Frozen water still > liquid water any day, though.

I've never had a problem not liking the water... I'm rarely near water anyway. The only concern I have now is that with a little girl on the way, I'd like her to know how to swim, but I don't think I can personally be much help. My wife is a pretty good swimmer, though.

Maybe I think about getting my nose looked at by a professional at some point (when I have better health insurance) to see if there is any surgery that can help my nose issues.

Is there anybody that doesn't know how...to run? I can do like a crappy jog for a couple steps but then I usually freak out and fall down. Running in place is tough too.

What I don't understand is why it doesn't cross people's minds who can't swim that flailing and spazzing out is not a good idea. Have they never seen somebody swim before? Nobody swimming is doing that, why don't they just copy what the person who can swim is doing, and keep some slow constant pressure on the water.

Umm... I don't know... panic?

Any time that a human is currently fearing for their life, cognitive abilities and precise muscle control kind of go out the window.

We're not usually talking about people who are standing in 4 feet of water flailing wildly... we're talking about a person who is in water they can't stand up in realizing that they may be dead in short order and are thus in a complete panic.

Hell, a lot of athletes panic in stressful situations and lose precise control of their physical and mental facilities and fuck up a play... and failure for them does not equal death.

And even for us who can swim, if we aren't terribly pigmented, then being in the sun = burn = wrinkles, sun damage, and eventual skin cancer. So I don't like to lounge around in the sunshine, whether water is present or not.

Good god, people, just learn how to swim. You don't need lessons. Jump in. You don't need to be an olympic gold medalist, you just need to keep water out of your lungs.

Actually sometimes when people are fearing for their life their cognitive abilities become much sharper, and in swimming you don't need any precise muscle control.

But yeah, I mean maybe if they have been dropped from a helicopter into the middle of the atlantic ocean I can understand panicking. But for somebody learning to swim there isn't much reason to panic. Watch what someone who can swim is doing, move your arms around semi slowly in shallow water until you get a feel for it and don't have to touch the bottom, then you can go to any water depth. It honestly should take somewhere between 5 seconds and 1 minute to figure that out.

Yes, but the fact that they're in 3 feet of water and can stand up doesn't actually make it less scary for some people. Much like a fear of heights, or dogs, or whatever. Fear is often not a rational thing.

Nah, being afraid of water can be mastered much more easily than those other two phobias.

Your body may be vulnerable to repeated bites, or crushing falls, but if you do it gradually you won't be afraid of being immersed mid-chest. From then on it only gets easier.

I didn't say it couldn't be mastered, I just said that the fact that you're not likely to drown during a swimming lesson doesn't make it less anxiety-ridden for some people.

Well, like I said above, I can "technically" swim. I've done laps and whatnot... unfortunately...

this is exactly what I can't do. Like I said above, I can't seem to keep water from entering through my nose (and it may be a result of a nose injury I had when Iw as a teenager).

Examples? Citations?

You never made it clear you were talking about people learning to swim before. My assumption was that you were referring to people falling into the ocean, a lake, the deep of the pool, etc, and then flailing around until they drown or are rescued.

But also, like Belethedheliel said, fear is not always a rational thing... just because you know you swam ok in the shallow 30 seconds ago end doesn't mean you won't be afraid in the deep end right now.

Think about walking a balance beam. Lots of people can walk a balance beam 6 inches off the ground... put them up 20 feet, and people seem more likely to fall (from what I've seen at ropes courses).

If people are going to have irrational fears, well fuck there's nothing that can be done outside of a bunch of sessions with a psychologist or something. But the point is that the fear is irrational, and therefore shouldn't exist. If you can swim in the shallow end without touching the bottom then youu can in the deep end to, the water is the same. It's like a balance beam, but a really wide one, like a bridge. If people were afraid of walking across the brooklyn bridge, in the middle of the road with no traffic, then that would be the same thing. If you have the ability to walk then your walking skills aren't going to leave you all the sudden.

If you have water getting up your nose, then if it's not because of the preexisting condition you described then it is because you are breathing in under water or you have your nostrils pointed in the direction you are swimming. In either of those cases it seems pretty obvious not to do that. I think that a lot of people think that it's dangerous to just put their head underwater at any time. What they should understand though is being underwater doesn't mean shit, just don't try to breathe under there. It is an interesting experiment in psychology though, how it makes people freak out and do crazy shit when it's really an easy thing to do. I am always entertained by people who are not "strong swimmers" racing against each other. They almost always just slap the water as hard as they can while not moving at all. There really is a lot of humor there. It would be like if two people were going to have a foot race and then they both start moving their arms and legs in vigorous kicking and punching motions.

You're taking some weird side issues here and expounding (and misunderstanding) them.

Yes, if you were a strong swimmer in the shallow end, it would be strange if you couldn't replicate that in deep water (unless you had some strong psychological issue with deep water).

That isn't what anyone is talking about here. We are talking about people that aren't strong swimmers (and maybe can't even swim in the first place). If you are not good at something, and then are put into a riskier situation (deeper water), there may be some panic, that is all I'm saying. At that point the fear isn't all that irrational. you are not a good swimmer, therefore, if you make a mistake, you may die. That is a reasonable fear.

Your reasoning and analogies are bizarre and heavily flawed. I assume you can win a PGA tour event then? I mean, you could just watch Tiger Woods play, right? Then just do the exact same thing he does, right? Pretty easy. I know winning the PGA tour is much harder than staying afloat, but you see my point, I hope.

Physical feats rarely require JUST knowing what something looks like. You rarely learn much by just watching, you mostly learn by doing. You need to practice and build up a memory for your muscle movements for the physical actions required to do a task.

I don't know what to tell you about my nose issue. I didn't really expect to talk about it much. I had a friend with a pool in highschool, and I swam in the pool a lot, and was pretty upset about my nose issue, so I was constantly trying to figure out how to work around it for multiple summers, but I couldn't hold the air bubble. When I was younger (before my nose injury), I swam under water just fine. But thanks for telling me I'm just an idiot and need to "not breathe in" as I didn't realize that was what I might be doing wrong.

So you have, therefore, observational evidence that just knowing what swimming looks like and attempting to mimic the movements does not, in fact, make one an effective swimmer.

I'm assuming you are serious....those people aren't attempting to mimic anything, they are spazzing out. The fastest swimmers in the world don't move their arms anywhere near that fast. There is no chance they have ever watched swimming in the olympics and then tried to copy it when the spaz like that.

Let me explain something to you because you haven't a clue what you're talking about. If you can swim aka tread water and swim a lap easily, then you can do it in any depth water. Learning to do this can be done in a matter of a few minutes. At that point you can't make a mistake, it's not a fucking tightrope. What's going to happen you sink a little and then come back up, oh no, you could hang out under water for 30 seconds and then pull back up to the top any time you want. People can hold their breath for a couple minutes, there is a huge buffer for "mistakes."

You say my reasoning and analogies are heavily flawed and then give the stupidest analogy possible. I didn't say that somebody should be able to watch Gary Hall (olympic gold medalist) and then go out and win their own gold medal in the ollympics. I said be able to swim. Yes, somebody should be able to watch Tiger Woods and then make a decent swing at a golf ball instead of flailing around like a fucking idiot. A swing good enough to hit a ball a hundred yards or something is all we're talking about here, instead of whiffing by two feet and then falling down.

Ok, before you said it may be the nose issue, now you in essence say it's definitely the nose issue. Make up your mind. If it's not the nose issue then it can only be one of the two reasons I gave. A lot of people learning to swim do fuck up and breathe in before their noses are clear of the water. And you do seem like kind of an idiot and quite a pussy. How about next time you breathe out of your nose the whole time you are underwater, then it is impossible for water to get in, unless you have some nasal version of a tracheotomy.

Haha. Very nice.

Just because some people find something to be easy or obvious does not make it so. Some things people pick up quickly, some things take longer.

If everything was super easy, then we would all be excellent athletes at any sport we spent a reasonable amount of time practicing at. I have played sports with people who have been playing for years and years, and they are not all that great. Meanwhile, someone comes in who has never played before and within a month they are better than half the team. Do you not understand individual differences?

Do you also not understand that we're not talking about people being able to swim well in the shallow end and then not being able to swim in deeper whatever due to some physical property of the water being deeper?

We are talking about people who really can't swim well or at all (for whatever reason), having a PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE in deeper water. When you know a mistake won't hurt you (i.e., shallow water, a low balance beam, getting shot at with paintballs, etc.) you often perform differently than when you a mistake can hurt you (i.e., deep water, an elevated balance beam, getting short at with real bullets, etc.). Unless, of course, you are highly skilled in that endeaver in which case you may not be affected adversely.

Also, as evidenced by this forum alone, lots of people cannot learn to tread water in "just a few minutes."

As far as "people can hold their breath for a couple of minutes," I don't think that is true. I think the average is much less than that, under a minute as far as I can tell from a quick search. In addition... guess who the people are at the upper end? That is right, people who swim a lot. So, a beginning swimmer is likely not able to hold their breath very long at all. Plus, if you can't swim well... who is to say you can just pull yourself up out of the water after 20-30 seconds? Even if you aren't panicked (which you very well may be if you aren't a good swimmer), you may not be good enough to pull yoursefl up fast enough if you drop too far.

I did use the word "may," because I'm not 100% sure, I'm maybe 99% sure. I took quite a few years off from swimming, and it was during those years that I injured my nose. So it wasn't like I was swimming one day, hurt my nose, and then tried swimming the next day. You know, lets just forget about my nose after this. I only brought it up earlier to show another reason why people may not care to or be able to swim well (i.e., a nose injury).

Also, as to saying I seem like an idiot and calling me a pussy... coming from someone like you I take that as the highest form of compliment. Keep 'em coming. It just makes you look like an angry 4 year old who isn't getting her way.

I can't swim. Which is kind of sad when you realize that I grew up in Va. Beach no more than a 20 min drive from the ocean.

I guess I'll field a few more of your silly softball questions....

This is a classic bullshit conversational ploy, just resort to saying "everyone's different man, yeah, I'm such a good person because I understand that." Everyone's different, no fucking shit, I thought humans were all clones until you said that. So many people including yourself use this as an excuse for their shortcomings, as if everything is genetically preordained. If you ever do anything wrong or badly, oh it's because everyone's different so no responsiblity is taken. Such a cheesy, cowardly way of thinking. Personally I would like to go jogging as a form of exercise but everytime I try I get scared of having a heart attack so when my heart rate speeds up a little I freak out for a moment and then fall down and take a short nap on the concrete until my heart rate goes down.......everybody's different, don't judge me. Being able to stay afloat, swim around shittily without the fear of drowning is something that takes very little skill, about the same as jogging. People who can't do this aren't "different", they are just unknowledgable and emotionally immature when it comes to water.


It's no wonder I have the patience of Sam Kinison these days with biased insanity like this in the world. I'm not saying anyone is debating that the physical properties of water change in the deep end you dizzy fuck (they actually do a little but it's not significant). My point is that since they don't the psychological issues are illogical and for people who aren't crazy that is enough to get rid of the psychological issue. And did you not read the part of my last post where I explained that once you actually know how to swim there are no mistakes to be made that amount to anything. You should probably go back and read that. You don't have to be highly skilled, you can have a very low level skill just as long as it's above the threshhold of being able to swim easily for a while without touching the bottom. This is a skill that dogs, deer, fucking kangaroos probably even have and none of those animals are built any better for water than we are, they have hoofs and paws and small fucking brains, but somehow they can figure that shit out no problem.

Everyone except for people who don't have use of their arms can learn to tread water in a matter of a few minutes. As long as they have a decent teacher and/or decent perception abilities of their own to watch someone else and they don't have some crazy, irrational psychological issues where when the see or touch water they instantly become morons. Either way, those problems are their responsibility, not some genetic everyones different bullshit.

I know this sounds like an insult, but I actually mean this as functionally as possible. You are a tremendous pussy, on the topic of water at least, probably other things too. People can hold their breath for under a minute??? It gets uncomfortable around a minute sure, pussies like you probably tap out at fifteen seconds for all I know. But you are not going to die until about two minutes at the earliest. You don't have a clue what you are talking about, stop pretending that you do. It's obvious that you can't swim at all when you say "who's to say you will pull yourself up at 30 seconds." You've probably never even been completely underwater. I've got news for you, pulling yourself up is as easy as walking. If you have the ability to swim you also have the ability to pull yourself up whenever the fuck you want.

I'm calling you an idiot and a pussy because you clearly state that you are on this subject at least, yet you seem think the opposite is true. You need to hear these things.

You are too much, really. Are you one of those guys that takes girls out on dates while all you do is talk about how you could kick that big guy's ass over there in the corner because you are such a stud? They usually wear UFC muscle shirts and have pretty awesome hair (and of course excellesively large cocks). That's the vibe I'm getting from you, anyway. Those dudes are fucking awesome.

I think it would be awesome if everyone learned to swim. I was never making excuses for anyone. I was just talking about the state of reality.

"According to a 1998 Gallup poll, forty-six percent of American adults
are afraid in deep water in pools. Sixty-four percent are afraid in open
water." http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2007,+09:03+AM

That was almost 10 years ago, but I doubt the numbers have changed much. I'm not saying those people should be "let off the hook" or defended. I'm just saying a lot of people are not comfortable in deep water, and it may well affect their performance.

Once again, you aren't following what I'm saying. I was (yes, somewhat snidely) saying that we aren't talking about people who know how to swim really well in shallow water. We are talking about people with no (or very little swimming experience). To them, swimming in deep water IS more dangerous, because they suck at swimming. Thus, the stress/fear/anxiety may make them go from sucking, to really sucking when they are in deep water.

Once again, I'm not excusing anything, I'm just stating what seems to be obvious.

Yep, great. Who cares again? First of all, show me some numbers that say a higher % of some random mammal can survive if thrown in a small lake (as opposed to humans), and I'll still say who cares. Why? Well, there are lots of things animals are really good at that we aren't. And how does having a large brain help with swimming?

Apparently they can't as evidenced by numerous adults in this country.

And as I posted above, it looks like a lot of people do have psychological issues with water.

You don't know the half of it! I'm luck if I can last 1.7 seconds! Once, the shower hit me in the face and I almost drowned. I'm not shitting you! I am such a big, fat, pussy!

Not to rain on your parade, but do a quick google search and you'll find numerous scientific studies where they have people hold their breath. Control subjects seem to AVERAGE around 40-some seconds. In addition, a lot of those are done underwater with volunteers... guess who doesn't volunteer for a "holding your breath under water" experiment? Yep, non-swimmers and people who can't hold their breath long, so those numbers are probably inflated.

Also, new and non-swimmers likely have less lung capacity, so it is not unreasonable to think that the average for non-swimmers is closer to 30 seconds, which means a hell of a lot of people can't hold heir breath for 30 seconds.

Now, I'll grant you that if it was a life or death situation, they might be able to hold it longer... or they might panic and hold it for less time, I don't really know.

The point is, most people don't seem to be able to hold their breath for "a couple of minutes."

Also, why would you think that getting back above water is easy? Because YOU can do it? (I'm not saying it isn't easy... but once again, you're just spouting opinion as fact.) Skating at high speed across a hockey rink and coming to a complete stop and then taking a shot into the upper right corner of the net in ice hockey must be really easy for everyone... because I can do it. And, they can certainly do it with a defensemen skating on their heels who is going to crush them right after they shoot and a goalie in net, because the situation doesn't matter, once you can do something, you can just do it no matter what the situation around you without right away.

I do, I really do. I can tell you are an amazing intellectual whose opinion I should respect. I'm completely serious. You should go into the sciences. The ability to turn opinion into fact would make you the top of whatever field you entered in no time! You wouldn't even have to do any background research or anything! And if anyone tried to call you on it, well, you'ld know they were a pussy. Then you could just toss them in a pool and they would die and that would be pretty sweet!

Another example of a person's ego being threatened resulting in pathetic efforts to rationalize their shortcomings.

Just because somebody calls you a pussy that doesn't mean they are an incredibily cheesy meathead, although I'm sure that delusion makes you feel better.

Human beings are built with a fairly similar lung capacity, nobody is going to hold their breath to the point where they die, the study you bring up is just a sign of how far they are willing to push it. Most people are scared to go past discomfort, which is fine, but irrelevant in a life or death situation.

Anyone has the ability to pull themselves up from underwater easily, all you have to do is put your arms up above your head turn your palm down and lower your arms.

These aren't things that are my opinions. they are facts that you are ignorant of. The opinion into fact spiel is any bullshitter's ploy I've seen a lot of people do. Along with the everybody's different one. I need to start writing these down. I find it funny that there is a cultural bulshitter's playbook.

I'm about done with your elementarty school level debating.

MY shortcomings? What are you even talking about? I've never stated that I, personally, couldn't swim upwards (or that it was hard for me). I've never said that I can only hold my breath for 15 seconds (oh, wait, I did share my traumatic shower story).

If you think you've actually threatened my ego in some way, I applaud you. I'm offended by your ignorance, but I must say I've never had my ego threatened by someone who uses the word, pussy. I'm not a guest on Jerry Springer.

What is "fairly similar" anyways? Humans are all fairly similar, I guess, but people are born into a reasonably wide range of bone structures, heart conditions, metabolisms, IQs, etc... within which you can enact changes by your personal decisions (or those of your parents while you are in the womb and as a child). I assume people also have moderately large variations in lung development (for normal, healthy babies... not even considering babies with medical problems).

Also... I readily admitted that the studies are "a sign of how far they are willing to push it" and that the times would likely be different if it really mattered (i.e., life threatening), so once again, your argument is not against anything I said.

In addition, how do you feel about people who train to increase their lung capacity? Even if we all started the same (which I think is pretty doubtful), using your lungs and training them increases their capacity. It is kind of like saying everyone should be able to bench press the same weight... but if some people don't ever work those muscles, they can't bench press as much. It seems to be the same (in a general sense) with the lungs. So, I would say that non-swimmers (and non-athletes even more so), are likely to have a lower lung capacity (regardless of how equal we all start).

Once again, who the hell are you arguing with? I know you can do it, and I know I can do it... I'm just telling you a lot of people can't seem to do it... therefore, I'm not sure how you can call it easy. If the definition of "easy" is something that the two of us can easily do, then I guess you are correct. If we can both solve a proof for a complex Abstract Algebra problem, does that make it easy? Well, it does for us. I'm not saying it isn't easy... I'm just telling you that a lot of people can't do it. I don't know why... but I think (like I've stated a billion times) lack of experience and fear are likely the two culprits. This state of reality (lots of people not being able to pull themselves up in deep water) exists no matter how many times you tell me it is easy.

Actually, the stating your opinions and observations as fact is the most common bullshitters ploy... and if your only response to that is to tell me that I'm bullshitting, then you've admitted defeat.

If these are truly facts that I'm ignorant of, enlighten me! I'd be happy to see the evidence as I'm always looking to learn more. That is only way a true discussion or debate can progress, with you proving that your opinions are more fact and less opinion. Until you do with some outside sources, I can only consider what you type to be your personal opinions based on limited and biased experience.

I have a friend who is a developmental biologist and studies the lung, so I'll try to see if she can shed any more light on this and give me some citations from scientific books or journals at some point if you are interested.

You insist on having a very dumb conversation over simple subject matter. This is a waste of time even from a comedy standpoint.

Hahahahaha. I'm done with you.

We were all having a perfectly reasonable discussion until you posted:

At which point YOU quickly started bringing up minute "facts" with absolutely no support (although some were true, you certainly couldn't tell from your posts) and harping on all of these bizarre and minor details leaving the main purpose of the thread in the dust.

I was merely questioning the "facts" YOU were bringing up (i.e., the "simple subject matter" you are now complaining about is a result of your own posts).

Take care, dude, and keep the blinders on.

Oh you're done, darn. I was looking forward to more stupid conclusions and questions.

You suck at life.

So you do that too then I guess, the truth hurts sometimes.

As much as I admire Smeagol's efforts in the Marvel Hentai Tentacle Rape thread, Miyagi and KungFu Monkey have really outdone themselves here. I award you both the Hindenburg Prize for turning this thread into such a spectacular disaster. Positive rep to you both!

Edit- "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to swedish miyagi again."
Oh well, Cobra Kai.

Bob Clark - The Simon Cowell of American Idol:Thread Train Wreck Edition.

Damn, that's too bad because I really felt like the Cavs to swedish miyagi's LeBron James in this thread.

First of all, it is important for everyone to learn to keep their head above the water. In case of emergency. That's all you have to do to make you a swimmer in my book.

As for swimming I took to it like a fish...... diving, crawling. treading-water competition. But I LOVE it. If you do not, that's perfectly all right with me.

Hell, I can't ice skate worth a fuck! But I would find a way to make it across a frozen lake in order to star in "8 Below" if the need arisen.
"
Its great exercise and I love the feel of it against my body (the water). Also there is no stress on your joints while still getting wonderful exercise....like my own personal attempt at a free-fall (OK, so I am scared of heights, perhaps another thread?).

Some folks don't like it. Thass cool, but I would recommend you learn to survive in the event you find yourself underwater and have the experience under you belt to NOT become frantic.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to swedish miyagi again."

This is actually the best reason (for me) to think about swimming again. I've played lots of sports over the past 15-20 years, and I know that my body will probably start to feel it soon... but water sports seem like something that your body can handle for a lot longer due to the lack of stress and impact.

That's a shame. Aside from the pain in the ass of scheduling the test (especially since everyone waited until April of their senior year), I always thought the Swim Test was a great idea.

It would be nice if everyone could pass the swim test, but to make it a mandatory part of a college degree?

Doesn't that seem a little absurd?

We don't make people at 2 year tech schools learn a second language.

Physical achievements don't seem like a very important part of a college education... unless you are going into some sports/physical therapy related field perhaps.

This is probably true (I can't say for sure, I'm not a doctor) but for me my hangup about swimming is the fact I can't see shit when I'm moving (I splash like crazy) compounded by the fact I'm nearsided as hell.

You must not slap the water, stroking works best. I am near-sighted also, but we can both see safe harbor when need be.