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Chavez shuts down TV station, sues CNN ... - Page 2

post #51 of 62
6/1/07 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Connors

And if, at this stage, the best you can do in defence of Bush is to accuse people of automatically disagreeing with him - the single most incompetent, moronic fuck-up of a President this world has ever seen - a man who is a national embarassment every time he opens his yokel mouth....you really are clutching. I disagree with pretty much everything that Bush says because he is an awful, imbecilic, dreadful human being who has proven consistently over the last 6 years that he is at odds with the most basic ideals of humanity. How's that?
Again, I'm not defending Bush. I can't wait for new leadership any more than the rest of you.

I wanted to see if posters here were willing to step up and say this was wrong even though Bush is against Chavez. Granted, it took some time and posts from the usual suspects, but many came around. Some didn't.
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post #52 of 62
6/1/07 at 4:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios
So I take it you were this indignant when the riot police was gassing anti-WTO protesters in Seattle?
Do you think both events are the same? There's similarities, but much more serious consequences in the situation in Venezuela.
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post #53 of 62
6/1/07 at 5:42pm
Chavez has tapped into the mob mentality of populism (us vs them); it is where he draws his power from. He doesn't need the intellectual vote, as that would be beneath him. Sound familiar?

Chavez is a Left Wing doppleganger of Presidente Bush. And before I get attacked for making that comparison with Bush . . . the fact that some Americans (and a whole lot of brownish people from other countries) have been disappeared is of a critical nature. The United States has extensive protections built into its laws against the sort of police actions that were rampant in right-wing Central America. Hasn't stopped it.
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post #54 of 62
6/2/07 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica
Do you think both events are the same? There's similarities, but much more serious consequences in the situation in Venezuela.
No, I don't think both events are the same. The only similarity is use of excessive force to break up demonstrations. I was just trying to understand where his opinions are coming from. Just as yours come from your personal experience (which by the way I would love to ask you more about, if you agree).
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post #55 of 62
6/2/07 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector,
I wanted to see if posters here were willing to step up and say this was wrong even though Bush is against Chavez. Granted, it took some time and posts from the usual suspects, but many came around. Some didn't.
Everyone who's posted in this thread had, at some point or another, clarly stated that they feel Chavez is in the wrong. You're doing this ridiculous tapdance in trying to prove that the Left is stupid because they automatically support Bush's enemies, even though no-one's fucking done that.

"Many came around"....Jesus. You're the only guy being shrill about the opposition in here.
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post #56 of 62
6/2/07 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector,
I wanted to see if posters here were willing to step up and say this was wrong even though Bush is against Chavez. Granted, it took some time and posts from the usual suspects, but many came around. Some didn't.
If this is a litmus test for lining up to throw the first rocks in a public stoning, I'm glad to disappoint. Nothing can be described in absolutes in politics. I think what you're frustrated with is along the same lines as people whose loyalty to Bush (or Fox News etc) impels them to defend his administration's every vacation from the law, which I'm glad to see a lot of conservative posters in the politics forum not doing. It's a valid point to make, but it goes both ways.

In trying to understand what's happening in Venezuela, it seems to me that Chavez has definitely crossed the line, but so have the forces stirring up instability and strife in his country. If his actions cause his people to lose faith in him as a leader, I'm pretty sure they'll do something about it. But you can't forget that the US has an agenda w/r/t Chavez and the Venezuelan oil industry, so if you want to genuinely attempt to comprehend what's happening there, without being on the ground, you should follow the story through other information streams beyond the US mainstream media.

But I think hearing from all sides in a politics discussion forum is a good thing. Who wants to sit around in an echo chamber patting each other's backs?
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post #57 of 62
6/2/07 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt
But I think hearing from all sides in a politics discussion forum is a good thing. Who wants to sit around in an echo chamber patting each other's backs?
The Bush Administration?
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post #58 of 62
6/3/07 at 1:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios
Just as yours come from your personal experience (which by the way I would love to ask you more about, if you agree).
Yes, my opinion is extremely influenced by my personal experience in this area. Feel free to ask away.
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post #59 of 62
6/3/07 at 1:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt
In trying to understand what's happening in Venezuela, it seems to me that Chavez has definitely crossed the line, but so have the forces stirring up instability and strife in his country. If his actions cause his people to lose faith in him as a leader, I'm pretty sure they'll do something about it. But you can't forget that the US has an agenda w/r/t Chavez and the Venezuelan oil industry, so if you want to genuinely attempt to comprehend what's happening there, without being on the ground, you should follow the story through other information streams beyond the US mainstream media.
Trying to understand the situation in Venezuela has little to nothing to do with trying to understand the relationship between Bush and that country. To be quite honest, I'm surprised Bush is even aware of Venezuela, Latin America has been ignored since the Clinton administration to today.

If you want to understand what is going on in Venezuela, you should be looking at the history there and the abuses the rich have imposed on the poor, the dissatisfaction of the masses against the oligarchy and how Chavez is abusing that frustration to his advantage.

People overplay the US involvement in Venezuela, just because there was some US involvement in the failed "coup" to whatever degree (assume it was invented here in the US for the sake of argument), it has little to do with explaining how things have gotten to this level.

As far as the US media is concerned, I find your opinion on this curious, because from what I can see Venezuela doesn't exist if you watch the news here. Bias would be a welcome thing as a matter of fact, since Venezuela is almost a non item in this country.

International media has been pretty much negative on Chavez of course, not surprising when reporters without borders is condemning your actions.
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post #60 of 62
6/3/07 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Thousands March in Support of Chavez
Quote:
Retiree Alfredo Cambeiro said Chavez supporters like himself recognize the need for a critical press but that the country lacks a truly objective outlet. He said he hopes the new state-funded channel that replaced RCTV will fill that hole.
``I want to see substantive, constructive criticism,'' Cambeiro said.
Yeah, because nothing spells substantive, constructive criticism like getting rid of stations with opposing views and STATE FUNDED channels!
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post #61 of 62
6/3/07 at 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica
Trying to understand the situation in Venezuela has little to nothing to do with trying to understand the relationship between Bush and that country. To be quite honest, I'm surprised Bush is even aware of Venezuela, Latin America has been ignored since the Clinton administration to today.

If you want to understand what is going on in Venezuela, you should be looking at the history there and the abuses the rich have imposed on the poor, the dissatisfaction of the masses against the oligarchy and how Chavez is abusing that frustration to his advantage.

People overplay the US involvement in Venezuela, just because there was some US involvement in the failed "coup" to whatever degree (assume it was invented here in the US for the sake of argument), it has little to do with explaining how things have gotten to this level.

As far as the US media is concerned, I find your opinion on this curious, because from what I can see Venezuela doesn't exist if you watch the news here. Bias would be a welcome thing as a matter of fact, since Venezuela is almost a non item in this country.

International media has been pretty much negative on Chavez of course, not surprising when reporters without borders is condemning your actions.
ElCapitan, seriously, you have a much more rounded perspective on the situation in Venezuela than I do and I respect your perspective completely. I'm in catch-up mode -- I haven't even seen The Revolution Will Not Be Televised video link. And I'm under the unfortunate ax of multiple deadlines so I haven't been able to spend the kind of time I need to to find out what information is out there.

My perspective on the CIA, however, comes from history. And anywhere in the world where large deposits of oil are found is a priority of the Bush administration -- you have to know that. But I'll keep my trap shut until I have something real to contribute to the discussion. My main thing is that just because Chavez is going off the deep end doesn't mean there aren't other forces at work here. I'm not saying this as a certainty, but as something that needs to be looked at.
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post #62 of 62
6/6/07 at 10:19pm
Thread Starter 
It's good to be suspicious, my point is to not let your suspicion blind you to the obvious.
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