What should the Prequels have been?

u missed the boat

What should the prequels have been?

1 Fun
2 Directed by someone else
3 Adventures, not civics lessons

The prequel story was unnecessary. There was no need to show how Braddock got out of the POW camp. The flashback in the original, and the haunted look on Chuck's face said it all.
Oh, the other prequel. It just needed Lawrence Kasdan and a brutally objective Walter Murch-type editor.

ok i'll bite. It needed Anakin to be a little older (maybe 15) and more of a roguish character ala Han Solo. Theres a solid start.

I still don't understand why the second movie didn't focus on the actual war rather than leave it to the cartoon series. It would have been interesting to see the Jedi function as a fully functional military unit as opposed to being a fringe resistance group in the OT.

Sounds about right - it needed tighter plotting and there was so much good stuff that got passed over for whatever reason - Ep 1 should've set the entire stage for the Clone Wars - most of Naboo could have been excised and set off-screen and AotC could've been cut to the rest of Ep I's run time/bleed over into Ep II - Ep II should've been the Clone Wars/Anakin's turn to the dark side, and Ep III should've been the betrayal/hunting down of the Jedi - and to keep plot integrity, Anakin should've turned and been killed at the end of Ep II, and Sidious new student Darth Vader should have mysteriously appeared in Ep III helping wipe out the Jedi, and trying to hunt down Padme...with no hint that she was carrying twins. So if you were watching the series in 1-6 order, it would've been obvious that Luke was Anakin's son, but there still would've been some dramatic weight to the reveal that Vader IS Anakin and Leia is Luke's sister.

I'm 100% with Chavez on this one. And to that I'd like to add, a focus on Anakin as the main character from the get-go, like Luke in Star Wars (or Episode IV or whatever it's called, and yes, I know he doesn't show up until 20 minutes in or whatever, but still, he's clearly the main character. I don't know who the main character is supposed to be in Episode I). Anakin's journey/slide/sharp right-hand turn to the dark side never felt very compelling to me, because I never really learned enough about who he was. More focus on him, and more emphasis on his character development -- or should I say, more good emphasis on his character development -- would have helped it feel more like the big tragedy it was supposed to be, in my opinion.

One other thing. I think the romance between Anakin & Padme could have been improved if they had actual objectives to accomplish during the part in AOTC where they're hanging out together. Think of Han & Leia in Empire; they're not just rolling around in a field together making conversation, they're being put in situations where they're forced to grow closer. There's somewhat of a nod to that idea in AOTC -- he's her bodyguard, supposed protect her from threats, which would be great if there ever were any -- but their interaction is so predictable and perfunctory that it doesn't quite count.

Sorted.

I also liked the original concept of the Clone Wars that everyone used to consider gospel until Episode I came out: a Roman-style slave rebellion, the oppressed clones rising up against the bloated Republic, the Republic hiring the Mandalorians to fight for them but they switch sides to fight alongside the clones, and the Empire formed to restore order and eradicate the clone menace that's keeping the rich all up in arms. I'd assume the Jedi in this sort of scenario would sympathize with the clones (those that would go on to found the Rebellion as well) which could be what made them enemies of the state.

Or at least that's what I'd always heard back in the 90s, and I think it'd still be more interesting than what we got for clone wars.

Oh well since I just had a discussion about this I'll go into it again.

Episode I - The Beginning
Basically I don't care for the whole Anakin is younger than Padme. Have Anakin already a rouge Jedi Knight. He is stuck guarding Padme and the fall in love and the clone war starts as they are separated. Anakin and Padme should both be held back and thus they found common ground that way. Anakin being held back by the jedi for the Clone Wars and general tasks and Padme for being too young to being taken as a representative of Naboo and trying to find problems with a newly appointed Chancellor Palpatine. Oh and Anakin is freaken strong in the force, like at the mere thought he could levitate half a planet! Obi-Wan would be his mentor, but due to the Clone Wars starting, their training is cut short. In the end Anakin becomes Palpatine's personal representative on the Jedi Consul.

Episode II - The Clone Wars
Clone Wars cartoon was pretty decent enough tale. Twins are born early. Anakin starts to rift away from Obi-Wan from a personal jealousy from him slowly become a hero of the clone wars and being away from Padme. Anakin needs to secretly start to hate Obi-Wan, while still being restrained from the jedi. We slowly start to get a wonder that maybe that Palpatine is not as clean as he is shown to be. Anakin loses his hand to Darth Maul, but taps into the dark side to defeat him. The movie cliffhangs with Anakin meeting with Palpatine and his journey to the dark side begins.

Episode III - Revenge of the Sith
Anakin now tapping into the dark side, goes on a rampage finishing the clone war and finally being able to unite with Padme. Padme is informed by the Jedi that her children would be killed now knowing of Anakin's turn. They use her as bait to lure him to a trap. It is here where in unfortunate turn of events, Padme dies sacrificing herself for her love, and Anakin blames the jedi for it and uses the force to dismantle and crumble the entire temple with a mass genocide going on. He never learns of his twins but does learn of one child. The ending would be like the current eps 3 with the face of Obi-Wan vs Anakin and Yoda going to confont Palpatine who is the Emperor now. Oh and the fate of Anakin is kept mysterious to keep the ESB reveal a surprise.

this is just a rough setup. I wanted more character motivation and development.

Not made.

Good ideas. I'll keep mine brief:

1)Anakin should have been an adult, or at least a teenager, from the get-go.
2)Anakin should have been a hot-shot pilot or rogue type character. Making him a whiny ass may help Lucas identify with him, but it doesn't make a lot of sense.
3)The Jedi should have been in decline, or basically gone, from the galaxy by the time Episode One rolls around. Anakin should have entered training late in the hopes that he would help bring them back, but instead Amidala is killed during the war when he fails to act on his dark impulses (for example, blowing up a ship with civilians on it) and he falls to the dark side.
4)No Jar-Jar, kiddie jokes, etc.
5)The Clone Wars should have already been going on for years by the time Episode One started: and the entire Jango Fett clone idea should have been dropped.
6)The art direction and fighting styles should have matched the Original Trilogy.

Obi-Wan needed to be older for continuity purposes, which is a shame because McGregor did a good job all things considered.

That's one of the things that's always bugged me, how he ages a good 35 years in 16 or so.

I do really like Chavez' ideas.

Lucas needed way less yes-men around him, especially on Phantom Menace. I wonder if anyone would have spoken up and discussed alternatives with Lucas if they weren't so excited to be working on the first Star Wars film in so many years. I mean, it's not like they could critique his script, I doubt anyone other than a few key people had even read the thing(even the actors). With Lucas in the supreme power position over the entire endeavor, I doubt he would have listened to anyone anyway(except maybe Spielberg).

I blame McCallum.

-- Darth Maul shouldn't have died at the end of TPM, and should have taken on the role Dooku did in AOTC and ROTS. You could have the Separatist leader mentioned, but no one knows who he is. Then when they arrive on Geonosis, bang, it's Maul, and now the Jedi know what's really going on. He then follows the Dooku plotline.

-- The pod race should have been the finale of TPM, not inserted in the middle. Forget the battle on Naboo and all the attached political intrigue. Have it as background, the MacGuffin that leads the Jedi to Tatooine and Anakin. And instead of Maul being after the Queen, he's after Anakin too -- the Sith have sensed his presence and want him for their side just as much as the Jedi want him. So the finale of TPM is Anakin in the pod race while Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon duel Darth Maul to keep him from taking the boy for the Sith. That way the race actually has some stakes to it.

-- Completely remove Jango/Boba Fett. Not necessary at all.

-- As has been repeated constantly, actually [i]show[i] us the Clone Wars!!!

The story of the prequels is sound. It's the execution that's all kinds of fucked. A script punch up with natural dialogue, a director who's better with actors, and the complete removal of "cutesy" from all three films would make a world of difference.

Other than that? There's lots, but the one that's been nagging at me a while now....

I agree the events of the Clone Wars cartoon should've been filmed. In its stead, however, the cartoon should've been the years between TPM and AOTC: Anakin's difficulties in training, birthdays going by without his mother, receiving his lightsaber, consistently denied request for the Jedi to intervene with the slavery still rampant on his homeworld, the failures to keep peace on planets about to secede from the Republic, Yoda secretly taking Obi-Wan under his wing as a confidant and student in the face of the growing Jedi ego problem (and thus getting rid of that now nagging "The Jedi master who instructed me" line in Empire). In general, using the cartoon to tell the story of Anakin growing up a Jedi would've made more sense than using it to tell the far more vital story of the Clone Wars.

I disagree. The single charm of the prequels was showing us the Old Republic as it was.

Besides, how would you justify an order suchs as the Jedis being in decay without something as the purge?

First prequel movie should be the beginning of the Clone Wars, and Anakin being found close to the end.

Second prequel, full-out Clone Wars and by the end the Jedi would eb aware of the inevitable path to a Galactic Empire.

Third prequel, starts with the purge and Jedis going underground. Switch to Dark Side fo Anakin, etc.

Why wait so long to introduce Darth Vader? You roll that bitch out by the middle of the second flick at the latest!

We've seen Darth Vader in three movies already, and he was great.
This is a chance to make a detailed transition from being a loveable rogue to being a jerk.

Something that was not accomplished in the prequels, though they probably meant to do it.

You don't need three movies to do that.
Establish him as good guy and Obi-Wan's bff in the first flick.
Have him join the dark side in the second flick.
He rises to power and fights Obi-Wan in the third.
All of this plays out to the backdrop of the Clone Wars.
Simple and effective. You know, like the original trilogy.

If anything, the prequels should have been one movie.

This is mostly where I come down. I have quibbles about some of Lucas's story decisions like everyone else, but the most frustrating part of the entire ordeal is that so much could have been improved with so little. Lucas had no business writing these things, and he probably had even less business directing. He seems to have made these movies in a vacuum surrounded by yes men, and the result is the equivalent of a cinematic rough draft before the teacher gets to exercise her red pen.

I never wanted to see an order in the first place. The biggest sin of the prequels was making the Jedi a bunch of lame, boring tight asses.They should have been a loosely affiliated group with a shared code, like ronin or something. I thought Obi-Wan's robes and shit were practical/functional. I didn't realize they were a UNIFORM. Way to go into hiding, Ben.

Given the same wooden direction and tin ear for dialogue, no amount of revamped storyline would have saved the films. Likewise, while I thought there was definitely some inherent problems vis a vis the OT, at least as standalone films there was nothing in TPM, AOTC and ROTS that couldn't have succeeded given the right people/inspiration/motivations. It strikes me as completely missing the point to think that if only Anakin had been older, if only they had gotten rid of the kiddie stuff, if only they hadn't killed Darth Maul, the films would have been necessarily improved.

It wasn't just poor execution. The entire premise was flawed.

I remember when the early reports on TPM were coming out, the buzz was that the focus of the movie was "adult" and "political". Now, that wasn't accurate, obviously, but I see how that got lost in translation. And there was no shortage of enthusiasm, at least with my friends (who were all in the early to mid twenties at the time) that Star Wars was growing up- that the PT was gonna be Lucas's Godfather. After the fact, you can say that aspect of the films was lifeless, over-complicated, stodgy, missing the point of an adventure movie, whatever you want... but if they had been done well, you would not be saying that. I think it is all about execution.

There is that - a paragraph of backstory that worked perfectly as backstory didn't need to be 7 1/2 hours of film.

I remember hearing that in the way he riffed on Hidden Fortress for Star Wars, so would he lift from Seven Samurai for TPM. Think about that for a second: a self-contained, manageable fable with Jedi (who were actually characters, not action figure stand-ins) instead of samurai. Instead we got warmed over Gunga Din with a half hour of Ben-Hur thrown in. Kinda disappointing.

Who the fuck wants Star Wars to grow up? It's space opera. Just as the OT had the Rebellion as its backdrop in telling the story of Luke and his father, the PT should have had the Clone Wars as the backdrop to the story of the fall of Anakin. If I want political machinations, I'll go read Dune.

Sorry Bailey, you just can't polish a turd.

A lot of people, actually. But that wasn't even remotely the point of my post. The point was, however it was done, if it had been done well we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't agree with that -- we'd waited 20 years for the Clone Wars, and to have it glossed over in the PT in favor of Jar Jar and the like is what let us down. Having all that done well would make it a well-done story we don't care about.

The Old Republic with its glistening ships and hundreds of Jedi becomes a shadow of itself in 10-20 years? With the Jedi being reduced to a hokey old religion? And all of those ships somehow vanishing? It doesn't make a lot of sense...it would have been more consistent to show the Jedi in decline as a group, shunted aside by Chancellor Palpatine and/or killed off during the decades long Clone Wars.

To BobClark Lucas should have listened.

I think Lucas was trying to indicate they were in decline by the way they casually dismissed Qui-Gon's concerns about the Sith and their overall attitude of infallibility. One of the things TPM got right was showing the last hurrah of the Old Republic and the Jedi, embodied by Qui Gon. His death was symbolic of the death of the old Jedi order. But that got lost in everything else.

Begging the question. But obviously I'm not gonna change your mind.

How much more of the clone wars did you need to see? We got the causes, the lead up, several major battles, and, for all intents and purposes, the outcome. Really, the way it was handled, I could've used a whole lot less of the clone wars, along with all the other stuff.

A big chunk of jedi history is modelled on templar history. (warrior monks and all) In that regard, it is totally plausible for this super powerful organization to be declared illegal suddenly and have all of its members killed within the course of a few days. It's plausible because that's exactly what happened to the templars.

I agree with Poxy that there should have been only one sith apprentice. Unlike the OT, we never really get a sense of how they are trying to accomplice their plan. We only see snippets so when multiple lords are introducted with barely any background or motivations explained, we're left confused. The sith apprentices' role is not huge and could have been more clearly executed with a single character running around doing sidious' bidding.

I would prefer that maul be that character and have him kill qui gon, but survive the TPM. This way, there's no question as to what the sith are doing in AOTC. As it is now, most people are stumped by the sudden appearance of dooku and some of the things he says really confuse his intentions. If people had seen maul there on geonosis, they would've immediately known who was good and who was bad. There's nothing worse than not even knowing who to root for and for a moment, when dooku is talking to obi wan, you get a sense that he's secretly a good guy. Just too confusing.

I would still have anakin kill this maul/ dooku character in ROTS as sith lords must kill their predessor to ascend. This would've streamlined the sith's backstory and made things a little more clear through the course of three movies. Instead, maul and dooku are treated like throwaway characters.

I weep for what could have been.

I will go to say that Episodes I's score wasn't bad at all. I'll even defend maybe half of Episode III's as well.

Also I would of done the prequels as period sci-fi films. I mean the OT started in the 70s, so I would try to make the look of a 70s film, but slightly a little more shinny. I dunno if I'm describing it correctly, but I wanted the film to feel it was from the 70s.

Best example is Wet Hot American Summer that felt like an 80s flick but filmed recently. I honestly think Lucas should of tried to film the movie with like $20 million. I mean the profit would of been HUUUUUGE!

Aside from some overly bland moments throughout all three prequels scores, John Williams did a pretty solid job. The three main themes (Duel of the Fates, Across the Stars, and Battle of the Heroes) are terriffic. There just wasn't enough classic Star Wars fanfare littered throughout for me.

Not written or directed by Lucas.
It's that simple.

Don't forget to take into account how Lucas butchered the score by cutting and pasting tunes throughout.

Also, as for the Clone Wars we did see: who exactly was at war? Was there ever any threat to anything during the battles we saw? Just a buch of explosions, droids and Jangos dying. No tension, no goals or objectives. Just a bunch of eye candy.

Everything I wanted to see in the PT, I was denied. Instead we got long dragged out sequences that could have been edited down which would allowed us to see what we really were expecting:

We would've enjoyed many wonderful "meatbag" references.

Yep. I didn't even want to bring that up. The amount of recycling music from Episode I into II and III (Most notably a lot of stuff on Geonosis) was borderline offensive. Fuck Ben Burtt.

Any time someone defends the prequels I'm always reminded of the laywer from the 4th episode of the Clerks animated series. "Objection! The podrace was pretty cool..."

Yeah but I understood that while the whole universe was all trashed up in the OT, the PT needed to have some of at least episode 1 shiny to show the before and have the rest of the movies the rough transition to it.

In terms of vehicles, they should of been at what episode III was at the beginning of episode II and extremely close to the OT in III.

(I did smile when I heard the tie fighter scream in the end of eps III).