Revisiting FREAKS AND GEEKS

I'm in the midst of watching the series now via Netflix (4 discs down, 2 more to go) and have been really enjoying the series. So far the best episode out of the ones I've watched has been "The Garage Door" where Neil discovers his dad has been cheating on his mom.

Not to mention the fact I recognize some of the locations, I was up in Santa Clarita for two years and that cafe the freaks were at in the same episode was a damn good place to get breakfast.

Only thing is, it's not open at night.

I've pimped it out a little, but the problem with doing that is giving up the box set for weeks at a time, then subsequently giving up the Undeclared boxset for weeks at a time, since they'll inevitably want to see that, too.

I can think of shows that I've liked just about as much as F&G (Buffy, the first season of Twin Peaks, Spaced, both versions of the Office), but I can't think of any that I like more.

The entire series is wonderful -- I've been watching it again recently -- and the most frustrating thing about it is how it starts off very good to great, and then it gets great to legendary. That whole second half of the season has my personal favorite episodes, from "Dead Dogs and Gym Teachers" to "Noshing and Moshing" (God, how great is that scene with Krumholtz and Levine? Unbelievable.) and yeah, "The Little Things" is awesome, too -- you can really see where they realized Rogen was more than a guy to just show up and say funny stuff. I think it was Andre who said that even though the show was cancelled, "Discos and Dragons" still feels like a great end to the series (and it does, and it is), but man, I really wish this had had at least a few more seasons.

Even though the reunion movie is pretty much dead in tv now and to discuss "what happened?" is bordering on fan fiction, I often wish Feig and Apatow would revisit these characters again.

I was super lucky to pick this set up at Gamestop for like 15 bucks after hearing all of you gush about it. And once again, CHUD is correct. The girl and I flew threw the set in 2 days, and goddamn it's great. Discos and Dragons is one of my favorite episodes along with Noshing and Moshing. Every episode is fantastic and I loved Thomas Wilson's character. I really wish there was at least one more season.

F&G is the first TV DVD set that I bought . . . since then, I've been loaning it out to anyone that's willing to watch it. Few shows can make me feel like I KNOW a group of characters like this show, and it was able to convey that feeling in only 18 episodes!

I got this box set and the 40 Year Old Virgin last year as wrap gifts. Probably better than all the booze I have been given. The funny thing is my wife really fell in love with Freaks & Geeks, and now she is the one who presses it on to all her friends.

Too much good tv dies before it has a chance.

I've revisited my Undeclared DVD every now and again, but it's not too often I crack open my Freaks and Geeks yearbook. Probably something to do with it being easier to just pop in a 22 minute show for a quick watch versus 45 minutes, even though I always end up watching more than one episode.

Undeclared is great, although I like it a lot more now I've actually been to college, but I think that it takes longer to find its footing and it's more of a straight-up comedy, so for me, it doesn't work nearly as well as FREAKS does.

However, both Undeclared and Freaks and Geeks have awesome commentary tracks on every episode. Even the basic "Freaks" box is the gold standard for TV series on DVD -- the tracks on it are so great. I mentioned this elsewhere, but there's one (I think it's on "Tricks and Treats") where John Daly, Martin Starr, Gordon, and Harris spend pretty much the entire running time busting on Samm Levine for hitting on every girl on set during the shoot. There's also the great story Tom Wilson tells about having to explain to Levine that hoverboards weren't real ("Levine, it's a MOVIE!") and the one where Mr. Rosso, Mr. Fredricks, and the gay math teacher do commentary in character.

Another thing that makes FREAKS constantly work for me is the "no bullies" theme -- every character, even the intially unsympathetic ones, are given moments of humanity and sympathy, like Allen revealing that he's a closet geek in the peanut allergy episode, or "Dead Dogs and Gym Teachers" and "Tests and Breasts," where Mr. Fredricks gets to show that he isn't just a Biff clone. One of the joys of watching Freaks for the first time, and again, is remembering and appreciating just how good (note: not great) an actor Tom Wilson is. I really wish he got to do more stuff.

And last, but not least, the soundtrack.

Greatest show ever made.

If I ever see an image on TV as poignant as Levine riding on his sad-sack bike pointing that garage door opener at every house on every street, I'll be surprised.

I rented and watched this last week for the first time and agree with the sentiment here. Favorite character moments for me: Lindsay babysitting high, her fear of the kid when he runs into the room says, "You're it!" and her interaction with Millie there, tactlessly telling her they were going to be friends again. Bill dancing, watching Garry Shandling alone, reacting quietly the fact that there are peanuts in his sandwich, ("Should we call the hospital?" "Yes."), and especially in that episode, the bully (Alan, was it) in that episode wanting to join the geeks for the sci-fi convention, riding up to join them, simply saying "I can't do it" and bicycling away.

Also really great was the saga of Nick Andopolis. In the commentary they say they realized they were probably going to be cancelled, and they just threw everything they wanted to do into an episode and shot it right away (Disco, Dungeon, and the end to that storyline and Lindsay getting away). I think the mishmash nature of it shows, and weakens it a little. Nick and Lindsay talk, it's awkward and extremely emotional, the camera stays on him as he walks, the disco music builds... and he dances a ridiculous dance and is beaten by a magician. In the commentary they talk about how it's just the right mix of humor and sadness but, I don't know, it seems kind of brutal. Unitentionally so. He loses, it's over, we never see him again. Lindsay gets a sad Greatful Dead song all to herself.

Seeing the faces of Tom Wilson, Claudia Christian, Tammy from Election (Jessica Campbell), Krumholtz, the kid from Royal Tenenbaums (Stephen Lea Sheppard), Joel Hogdson, Jason Schwartzman, Kevin Corrigan, Ben Foster here were pretty great.

But, and I've seen this in reviews of Knocked Up, it is a little less brutal than some geek (ahem) experiences. In the first episode they actually fight back against their bully. Bill kisses the head cheerleader. Sam goes out with his crush. Lindsay tells George Bush he shouldn't censor questions. It's light, it's funny, it often ends in sadness and awkwardness and that's great, but the style makes it palatable, and fun to watch. There is no utter abject ridiculous loneliness, the way high school might feel for, say, Gordon Crisp (the fat kid who smells). The central core group gets in fights but hangs together.

There was a NY Times article or something where they interviewed Mike White about Apatow and Knocked Up, and he said, "He's making movies about the bullies now," which is hyperbole, but it seems kind of appropriate. I don't know if he ever didn't just take the mantle of geekdom and put it under good character comedy. He's done it twice. Here and the 40 Year Old Virgin, the world of which is a lot sunnier place than I imagine, compared to the lives of people who fit its title description.

Also, I didn't know James Franco was good until I saw him here. He's, um, so good.

I remember watching the pilot of this show because of the 40 year old virgin and i was immediately hooked. The nerds fight the bully and that sequence at the end with sam and the styx song, great stuff. Linda Cardellini's a hottie.

Favorite character however has to be Bill Haverchuck. Funnier and more charming than anything napolean dynamite.

I saw a bunch of episodes when it originally aired and it was great, but then it slipped off the radar. I was hesitant to get into the DVDs because of the how much TV I watch, and I knew I'd love it. When a buddy lent me his very nice yearbook DVD set, I couldn't refuse. And its just brilliant stuff. So raw and funny and then the characters surprise you in the best way.

I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of the set, but I want to savor it and not pull a marathon.

Watching the series for the first time. Netflixing it, and up to disc three. I hate myself for not checking it out sooner.

I'll give Undeclared a go next, but I have a feeling I'll be disappointed.

Man, every time I watch the show, and I watch it often, there's that scene where Haverchuck is grabbing breakfast and he sees Coach Fredericks emerging from his mother's room in his underwear and taking a sip of coffee from Bill's mug as the Who wails on, it makes me want to get up and SCREAM. I just want to toss everything out the window and yell and yell and yell. Best show ever.

I used to date this awful bitch and she's out of state right now, and she's taken the DVD's! I was going to dump her but she's the type that will not follow up on sending me the discs, so I've gotta hold off on kicking her selfish out of my life, but dammit, I can't get her to send those DVD's back! I'm considering military action.

If you're expecting Freaks and Geeks 2, you might be. If you're expecting an absolutely superb half-hour comedy, you won't be.

My favorite hour of TV ever. I think I burst into tears when Sam gets his Atari 2600 from his parents.

And Bill Haverchuck is greatness. "Just don't give me any more peanuts, because I could go into a coma and die." When he forgives the bully... man.

What a stupid observation by Mike White.

I think White was being glib. There's no way on earth that Steve Carrell's character in The 40 Year Old Virgin bullied anybody except maybe a collectibles seller on eBay.

I think Mike White defines a bully as anyone who's able to actually get out of bed in the morning.

I fell in love with this show through DVD, and I think the exact moment was the "You know what happened to him? He DIED!" line in the pilot. Any Freaks fan also has to check out Paul Feig's two memoirs, Kick Me & Superstud. It's all the hilarity and poignancy of F&G in written form.

Undeclared is also greatness, though if you've never seen it just beware that the episodes are out of order on the DVD set. The show plays better if you look up the episode list and watch them correctly.

But what about the camraderie of his friends? It's clear they never had to deal with being the unpopular one. Even Rogen. I think it's an interesting comment- though really, White shouldn't talk.

The movie wasn't about them, though. It was about Carrell, who was ubergeek extraordinare.

He also put away, or at least ebayed, his childish things. Which is not to say Andy wasn't still a geek at heart or that the movie didn't have great understanding and empathy for that type of guy. I don't agree with White, but if in fact he was talking about 40YOV and was serious, that is probably what he was referring to. The geek didn't really stay a geek.

So he was a bully?

No, Schwartz. He wasn't a bully.

True, but in reality, geeks and cool people have to associate with each other all the time at work. I associate with everybody at work, even if they happen to be young single women.

Picked this up following pay day and an arduous tooth removal, not even past disc 2 and it's already fantastically funny. The conclusion to Tests and Breasts being a highlight of my morning

[Also: Biff, Goldberg and Joe Flaherty!]

I seriously got a kick out of the MST3K cameos. The show was clearly tailored for the geek crowd.


Feig and Apatow will always have cred with me for this series.

Every time I watch Lindsay Weir and Kim Kelly take off in that micro bus I become physically enraged at NBC and TV watching America for letting this die.

The TV viewing public really dropped the ball on that one. But, we did get what I consider the best ending to a series.

Holy shit, Shia LaBeouf is in this.

Guy's like god damned Waldo.

Well after reading through this thread I guess I'll put this on after I'm done getting through Deadwood. My buddy lent me Freaks and Geeks about... wow... two years ago I haven't watched it.

Alan Sepinwall of the New Jersey Star-Ledger is also revisiting "Freaks and Geeks" in his blog at http://sepinwall.blogspot.com. Sepinwall is always worth a read, and I'm really enjoying his series so far. The most recent bit on "Tests and Breasts" reminded me of one of my favorite moment of the series:

"How do you think it feels to be told you're dumb...when you're eleven years old?"

I just finished the series after getting them through Netflix. I am seriously thinking of getting the yearbook boxset when I actually have money to do so. I am actually sad that I never got to see it when it was originally broadcast. There are so many great moments to even try to list.

I agree with Rex that there will never be a scene that replicates the tragedy of Neil trying to find the one garage door that will match the opener. The way they handled that whole storyline is amazing. His conversation with Barry about it felt so real. My parents never cheated, but I have had to break shit down like that to my younger brother in the exact same fashion that Barry did.

The Sam/Cindy relationship was handled very well for only lasting two episodes. It was a rollercoaster of 'holy shit, he's actually going out with her' to 'yeah, he should break-up with her' in the span of an hour and a half.

I think Dungeons and Discos was a great finale. I know that they just threw everything in there they could, but I think all of it worked. They showed the desperation of Nick trying his damndest to get over Lindsay. Any other show would have had him run after Lindsay, but he stuck to his guns and did the hilarious dance. That they followed it up by Eugene the Magician is so outlandish but at the same time, it shows that Nick may never be the greatest at anything. The ending with the micro bus was unbelievable. I was actually cheering when she got off the charter and Kim was their. It made me want to be a teen again, to actually have fun when worrying about bills and car notes wasn't even in the horizon. Fantastic show.

Always liked the way that the "Geek" got to date the head cheerleader after idolising her and pining over her from afar for so long but then dumped her because she was boring - what other show would do that ?

Not only that, she didn't like The Jerk and that sir to me is Un-American.

I love the scene after that when Sam and Ken are in the bathroom trying to figure out what to do about their relationships. "She didn't like The Jerk!" "Wow...really?"

I think I fell in love with the show when Sam dumped that cheerleader. I thought she was an annoying twat from her first appearance, so Sam dumping her made me smile.

I think they built Cindy up pretty well through the whole thing. At first, she really is like the cute girl-next-door who just happens to be on the cheerleading squad. Then when Sam enters the Friend Zone I was afraid that the writers would just keep him there and have the tension last for eight seasons. Luckily the writers bucked the trend and actually had her become interested in Sam. Granted, it was for very selfish reasons ("I deserve a nice guy") but it rings true with how a teen would act. She didn't really get on my nerves until the theater scene. Honestly, how could you not think the jerk was funny? I guess that's my own personal litmus test.

I finally finished all the episodes in the boxed set. Fuck, this sucks! I like how you're not sure what Lindsey is feeling until the end when she meets Kim in the parking lot. Its a nice ending to a cancelled show, but I really wish that they kept making more of these. Fuck, this sucks.

This is one of my favorite scenes in one of my favorite episodes of the series, and proof why David Krumholtz should be getting more work. The way he just bluntly says "You're right. Dad cheats on Mom." is heartbreaking.

Is this playing anywhere in syndication? I remember seeing a couple of episodes on TV a while ago, but I didn't give it a chance. I'd like to remedy that.

Concur on the Cindy hate. When he asks if she wants popcorn and she responds, "Will popcorn make this movie any funnier?" I pretty much shoot lasers out of my eyes.

As someone who's parents were divorced when I was little that Garage Door one just destroyed me.

See this is why I don't like watching short lived shows. I just get mad at how great they were only to be canceled and nothing left. A buddy lent me Firefly years ago and I became hooked only to become pissed that FOX completely fucked it up.

And now I watch Freaks & Geeks and love every second of it. I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said about this show. It's wonderful. It's brilliant. It's damn good.

I wasn't planning on listening to the commentaries but I guess I'll have to now.

And how come no has mentioned the hotness of Maureen Sampson?

Finally got around to watching this now.

Great, great, great show. As much as I've loved Apatow's more recent work, I have the unsettling sensation that this might be the best project he's ever involved in.

If Undeclared is half as good, I'll be amazed.

How did this fail? Idiocracy at work.

I just read the email exchange between Judd Apatow and Mark Brazill (probably very old news at this point).

Wow.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2002/03/0079095

It's 90% as funny, but only about 50% as real and touching. Which is to say it's one of the best half-hour comedies ever.