Peace Out, HD-DVD?

I'm still not giving 30+ dollars for a next gen disc. I'll wait and pick up the winning format player next Christmas at Wal-Mart for under 50 bucks.

Neither format wins. Nobody in the real world gives a shit about high def until the hardware - players and TVs - gets WAY cheaper.

I'm perfectly satisfied with my region-free, PAL-compatible DVD player that cost me $50, thank you very much.

I've leaned to the side of HD-DVD so far for a few reasons. One being that there's no region coding, which is a godsend for people like myself who import a lot. Secondly is that blu-ray seem to lack on extras from what I've seen. I'm sure that'll change but for now its HD for me.

As an aside, I can see the general public leaning towards HD-DVD. Purely because Blu-ray sounds new. There's a kind of comfort when your buying something you know. I imagine that if there was a shelf of blu-ray and HD-DVD discs people would grab the HD discs simply because of familiarity.

I don't think its really a case of 'This format is better so it'll win'. Betamax was better than VHS after all. The biggest problem for HD-DVD is that they don't seem to be doing anything. Blu-ray are getting their discs out there, making people aware of what they have. HD-DVD just release some films that won't get anyone excited (Who wants to see ANOTHER romantic comedy in HD). They need to start pulling out the big guns if they want to make people aware of what they're selling.

Pssh, you can keep your 60 minute mildly superior tape-based format. Have fun watching half of every movie that you record.

I'll be happily chillin with the entire Sci-Fi Channel Dune series on one SLP-speed-recorded VHS tape...and still have an hour and half left for a few Seinfeld episodes.

I have an HD projector but I've been holding off on buying the HD player because, like a lot of us, I didn't want to invest in the losing format. I decided just recently to get an HD DVD player because they're cheap and I can have Netflix send me that format when available (they'll also send Blu-ray when available if asked). That way I can enjoy HD until a clear winner is declared. If the "format wars" go for another 5 years, I'll end up spending around $50 a year and still have that upconverting I hear so much about. I wouldn't be buying any HD movies in the meantime because that's (in my mind) where the real waste of money is.

I think I'll hold off until the holidays now.

Does it really matter who "wins"? I currently have an HDDVD player and I love it. Even if HDDVD gets phased out by BluRay, I still have my HD version of "The Fountain".
It seems that the biggest problem with both of these formats is that they are still geared towards people who actually care about HD. The general public doesn't know or care how to best utilize that new 60" HD TV that they got with their tax refund. The makers of these beautific discs need to start pushing the format on John Q Public if either of them hope to survive.

With HD televisions sharply going down in price, there are lots of people like me, who've inexplicably been left with TVs that are actually ahead of their DVD players. HD broadcasts of movies are noticeably better than DVD viewings. The upconvert players range from $80 and up, but they're clearly a short-term fix. If Blu-Ray thinks they've "won," they should solidify that by actually making the players affordable so as to get market penetration. Otherwise, there's incentive for someone else to come up with another format, or a cheaper platform for the HD-DVD format.

The Blu-Ray issue with interactivity and features is resolved by the later players and the PS3, which fully support BD-J.

They even have networked games now, I saw one on the X3 movie at a recent conference were you can play a trivia game against others in the internet, and a master and commander movie that has an overlay showing you a map of the current location as it happens in the movie.

Blu-Ray has caught up and surprassed HD-DVD and they still have more studio support, so this battle was "won" before it started. But devin is correct, people don't have the hardware yet ... I would even argue that the content is not there either. Most TV shows are not HD, so there needs to be more content for people to move to HD in the 1st place.

I honestly don't even see why HD/Blu-Ray is even an issue. I've never watched a movie in either format, but can you honestly tell me the quality upgrade from DVD justifies dropping thousands on a new TV and player? Oh yeah, and also replacing my entire DVD collection with more expensive discs that mostly have no extra content? Do I need to know what every actor's pores look like?

1. You don't have to replace your existing collection, why do people always bring that up?

2. HD TVs are better than standard def TVs, that's a separate issue from this. Hopefully you've seen the diff between SD and HD already.

3. You don't need to spend thousands in your HD player if you have a clue.

No, and I think that the studios will make an economic decision not to rerelease lots of things that won't see a startling difference. Like those season series of TV shows from the 1970s-- people will probably not rebuy those, and would be content to keep watching them in a DVD upconverted form. I think the content gap isn't really a deal-breaker as long as they start releasing new studio films in an affordable HD format and as long as the HD/Blu-Ray players do an adequate job of upconverting.

I've always been a skeptic about incremental tech upgrades-- like from 5.1 to 6.1, or to DTS (I still use TV speakers for sound)-- and I've always thought some placebo effect was at work. Despite all that, I've had a HD TV that's 720p (not even 1080!) for about 2 1/2 months, and the difference in movies is noticeable and impressive from what you can get out of DVD. TNT-HD ran the KILL BILL movies last week and I found myself watching both of them when I'd planned to watch something else just because I couldn't get over the level of detail. Same with some other movies-- BLADE RUNNER, for example. And, wonderfully, same with some older films in black and white where the compositions are ridiculously stark. I watched NIGHT OF THE HUNTER on an HD movie channel and was pretty much floored.

1. Movies are being released in the new formats, so I'm gonna assume an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player will not magically make existing standard DVDs look much better than they already do. I admit I may be wrong on this, but my guess sounds right to me.

2. Granted.

3. I mentioned spending thousands on a player AND TV, not on the player itself.

I'm gonna wait until the prices drop, format war dies down etc., and make do with my 27" flat screen CRT and DVD player in the meantime.

I'll believe that when I get the Matrix, Batman Begins, V For Vendetta, and 300 on Blu-Ray that have the same in-movie experience thing as HD-DVD.

Like I've said before, and agree with Devin, that stuff needs to get cheaper and I'll wait for the war to settle down a little.

Normal DVDs are usually just fine, but when we went over 50" on our tv the first time, I started to like the HD stuff more. Really though, I'm just a niche.


Oh and give it time, we'll eventually have hard drives big enough to rip these movies a plenty.

I'm still waiting to see if the rumors about Wal-Mart/Toshiba pan out. That's about the only thing that could keep HD-DVD afloat at this point. I'm not ready to dump my HD player yet, but I've slowed way down on my HD-DVD purchases.

The PS3 just looks better and better...

I have, too, mainly because I bought everything I wanted. More releases, please.

Anyone seen any articles or studies on how hard Blu-Ray movie watching is on a PS3? I remember that the Xbox and PS2 DVD drives were prone to malfunction if overly used (perhaps falsely).

I'm loving my PSP (television episodes viwed anywhere is great), so Sony is currently riding high in my estimation.

I think that was only the launch systems for both, and the problems were fixed by the second run. As far as the PS3 goes, I've heard very little in the way of hardware malfunction (some overheating problems that are supposedly fixed), and nothing specific about the drives.

If you are asking about video quality, which was notoriously lacking in the ps2 and xbox dvd playback software, the PS3 is considered to be the best Blu Ray player and a very good DVD player (since the last firmware update which added upscaling) by the folks over at AVS.

As far as mechanical stability..it's probably too early to say, but I haven't had or heard of any problems with the drive yet. If there is a defect, it probably won't rear its ugly head until we get some good games and give these more use than a few hours a few days of the week on a movie. The biggest problem for me is how much of a god damn dust magnet the thing is.

I'm all for Sony winning this thing. I'm gearing up for my first HD TV (a Pioneer Elite PureVision, haven't decided on the size yet) and anticipate a PS3 a year or two down the line. My PS2 has been my primary player for over 4 years now. Functioning isn't great but it's lasted a long time.

It'd be nice to be able to get that PS3 and not worry about any other DVD-player-related isssues. Just saying.

And do you know what also would be nice? When one of these formats eclipses the other, they go back to the jewel cases. I don't appreciate the format showing up the cover art with their colored mini case. With those tiny things sitting on a shelf, I'll have to get my nose up the spine to pick the one I want. Seriously. Newer doesn't have to equal tiny.

Having different size boxes on my shelf drives me nuts, but I have to say I like the new cases..it's very difficult for a disc to become dislodged and roll around in there and they take up less space. I actually wish they would start releasing DVDs in them.

Hopefully that'll change eventually. Remember when most DVDs were flippers and looked like this?

Remember when Uma Thurman didn't look like this:
?

More from the digital bits. 2008 seems more likely to me.

"Finally today, we've got a couple more high-def stories that are sure to set the discussion boards burning. Just a day after a Microsoft rep admitted that his company would rather HD movie content be delivered via download rather than optical disc (including the HD-DVD format Microsoft claims to support so enthusiastically), Reuters is now reporting that Toshiba is cutting its 2007 sales forecast for HD-DVD players by a whopping 44%, despite the company having slashed its player prices dramatically in recent weeks. According to the piece, this comes "after disappointing sales in the U.S., putting a damper on prospects for one of its growth businesses." This is revealed even as Toshiba's PR machine has been crowing (see this story at Video Business) that its players control 60% of the stand-alone market share for high-def. Says Universal Studios Home Entertainment EVP Ken Graffeo in the Reuters piece: "Consumers who are buying Playstation 3 are buying it as a game console. They're simply not buying it for watching as many high-definition movies as Sony said they would." Interesting, except those numbers don't add up. HD-DVD claims to have 60% of the stand-alone HD players (presumably 20% more stand-alone players than Blu-ray)... and yet Blu-ray Disc software sales continue to outpace HD-DVD software by at least a 2 to 1 margin (see the latest Nielsen/VideoScan numbers above). Apparently, those PS3 owners are watching a few high-definition movies after all. Not coincidentally, Sony reps are today saying that they're optimistic about sales of their stand-alone Blu-ray Disc players this year (see this BBC story), on the strength of their own lowering player prices and also their format's exclusive movie content from Sony, Disney, MGM, Fox and Lionsgate.

Read the Soapbox people. We aren't just making this stuff up. Personally, I'm hoping this stupid format war will be over by the holidays, so we can put all this nonsense behind us and get on with the business of talking about what we really love... great movies on disc. I give it 50/50 odds this thing is over by the end of 2007... 90/10 it's over in 2008.

We'll be back with another new column from Jahnke tomorrow, so stay tuned..."

I think the outcome of this has been obvious for a very long time, however I hope HD-DVD hangs around a bit longer just to see if standalone Blu-Ray prices come down quicker than without any competition.

The only reason I think that stat is kind of misleading is because they don't count PS3s. Granted, not every PS3 was bought to be a BR player, but for people looking to buy a stand alone BR player, the PS3 is the cheapest and highest quality option, so it would seem they are discounting quite a bit.

Any figure that doesn't include PS3s as Blu-Ray players is pure HD-DVD propaganda.

If you take PS3s out of the equation then it means the 40% with standalone Blu-Ray players sure buy a lot of movies since the Blu-Ray titles are outselling their HD-DVD counterparts.

Even with the news that Toshiba is lowering expectations, HD-DVD is far from dead. In fact, I would say it will grow even stronger in the next 12 months. Consider that:

1. The 360 HD-DVD drive add on price is dropping. Retailers like Costco keep pushing it out at a great price.

2. The Toshiba stand-alone players keep increasing in quality and dropping in price. The players have already almost dropped in price by 1/3 since the format launch. They are offering all kinds of deals on free movies when you buy the players as well.

3. Key new releases. The recently released Matrix Collections and Planet Earth are selling very well. And they are pretty damn expensive to boot so when folks shell out $80 for these it means they're pretty dedicated to the format. For folks with big-screen HDTVs DVD just won't do. And with upcoming releases focusing on great visual films (that are actually good movies too unlike a lot of the neat effects crap releasd already) like Hunt for Red October, Top Gun and 300 I think this trend will continue. Personally I can't wait for these films and Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz and Big Lebowski which are all coming out relatively soon on HD-DVD.

4. Toshiba is putting HD-DVD drives in all of its laptops.

5. This is only a rumor but there is talk that WalMart may offer a cheaper HD-DVD player from China.

HD-DVD may have a flesh wound, but i's not dead yet.

How many of those folks are out there? The answer is not that many.

HD-DVD is flatlining. What remains to be seen is if Blu-Ray will manage to become anything more than a 21st century Laserdisc or Minidisc.

Thanks for the article - I could care less which format wins, but I do want one at this point. If and when Hd-DVD goes away, or when Sony cuts the PS3 by $150 as they probably will by Xmas of this year, I will the be willing to get a BluRay player!

This is not a rumor, it's an urban legend.

Toshiba already has a $299 player on the market. Is it so far fetched to think that by November Wal-Mart can't get them to cut that by $50? And then have a sale price even cheaper?

I've got the HD 360 player, so I'm a little biased, but the only thing stopping me from getting a PS3 this weekend is the talk of a console price drop by the holidays, so I really don't care who wins. I just want one format.

its all about content

and with every hollywood studio but universal supporting it, the race was done before it even started

wait till Disney starts there Blu Ray banaza, and the second wave of cheaper and better players hits

Somebody gave me negative reputation over this statement, just to make things clear, the original cheap Chinese HD-DVD players story was debunked all over the press, and more specifically by Walmart.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2122715,00.asp

It was also detracted by the manufacturer.

I also think it's a bit funny that people get upset over these things, but I kinda understand it when you've invested money in such hardware. That's why, once more time I repeat, it's better to sit out these "format war" situations even if you prefer one technology over another.

To be fair, in regards to The Digital Bits, Bill Hunt has been so pro-Blu-ray that his opinions are only slightly more reliable than Harry Knowles'.

I love my HD-DVD player, and if Blu-Ray takes over, so be it. I'll buy that one too when the price dips at the end of the year.

There will most likely be a low end HD-DVD player available for Wal-Mart's famous "Black Friday" sale. Last year they had the $998 42" Plasma screen TV set. They'll make sure to have only a few units on hand so people can get up at the crack of dawn and risk black eyes and losing dignity so they can get Jimbo the new "insert kick ass brand name here" HD-HVD player before his friend Cooter does.

Anyone go to these sales just to watch people? The aformentioned electronic's department at wal mart is good, as is best buy. I may try a Toy store this year.

Bill Hunt seems to base his preference on fact though.

Amongst early adopters, content is going to matter more than a few hundred dollars. Blu-Ray is winning the content war (five exclusive studios to one). Unless HD-DVD can change the economics of this situation drastically --i.e., get a 199.99 player out there-- it's hard to see HD-DVD winning in the near future.

I'm starting to wonder if both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are DOA for the indefinite future as niche markets. People like DVDs, they don't necessarily have a high-def television, and this format war has created a negative perception towards the entire arena.

Definitely a kick to the privates from a PR standpoint, but I question how much from a player sales standpoint. We've been discussing the Blockbuster deal here

http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101983

I'm curious to see the next few shots in the war. Can the HD-DVD camp step up with big news of their own? They sure as hell better, if for no other reason than to slow down the pro-Sony publicity.

Even if BR wins, the format war will have forced down the price of BR players quite a bit.

It was always about content, even with cheaper players, if there is no content there is nothing to do. If the rumors about a cheaper PS3 are true (and they are just rumors), then you can kiss goodbye to HD-DVD sooner than expected.

IGN reports that the install base for bluray v hddvd is 5:1 including the PS3 and 360 Add on.

WB has announced they're delaying their TOTAL HD discs from this fall to early next year at least. Could it because they expect HD-DVD to die, so why bother?

I have a sad realization, that I like children of Men, and well you know Universal.