Peace Out, HD-DVD? - Page 2

If you think exclusivity is anything but temporary, you're in thinking jail.

Neither format is going to replace DVD in the near-term... or long-term, likely. DVD was more than an upgrade in PQ and AQ over VHS. All HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have bought us are an increase in PQ, AQ and more space on a disk for special features that a lot of people probably don't care too much about. It feels more like a laser-disc phase than a DVD phase-out. I'm not trying to discount the importance of better PQ and AQ, I'm just saying the DVD was an all-around new type of media and did well to replace the plastic hunks of prone-to-wear-out plastic that VHS tapes were.

I own a 360 add-on and LOVE the PQ of HD-DVDs. If Microsoft had an add-on Blu-Ray player, I'd be all over it too. The difference over DVD is amazing, in most cases. I just don't want to spend $500+ to support the other format.

I'm still confused as to how Blu-Ray is doing so well, considering there best player on the market is a gaming console, doubling as a Blu-Ray player. The other players on the market are extremely expensive and have gotten piss-poor reviews. I know the 2nd wave of players are coming out, and maybe they'll prove to be better, but I still don't get how BD has the edge (aside from having more studios back it). I know I'm using my gaming console as a player, but at least there are cheap-enough, stand-alone options that have gotten great feedback.

I'm not a Sony hater or fan... if you make a good product, I'll buy it. Pretty simple. I have a couple of Sony TVs even. Their track record for having new media (Beta Max, memory sticks, etc) stick around, is kinda not good though.

HD-DVD outselling Blu-Ray players in Europe
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/new...archived=False

Unfortunately the HD-DVD group is trying to play with the numbers ...

Not considering PS3s as Blu-Ray players is a silly tactic, specially when the BD media is outselling HD-DVD as well.

Every time HD-DVD pimps some sales statistics only to trail off while mentioning that it didn't account for PS3s, thousands of unaffiliated/undecided consumers roll their eyes. Myself included.

It's empty information and comes off as desperate. Such a reaction also increases the probability of one not wanting to invest in the technology that feels the need to trumpet half-truthed sales figures.

Did they include the 360 Add-On? The article didn't mention them excluding it the way they mentioned the PS3 specifically, but it's certainly not stand-alone.

It's all pretty meaningless anyway, right? Neither camp is "taking off" exactly.

I haven't heard anyone mention which format they think is better in terms of PQ and AQ. I was watching part of the Superman Returns blu-ray on my uncle's ps3 last night and I noticed a very smooth, cinema like motion to the picture. I remember seeing a demo of the Cinderella Man hddvd about a year ago and the picture had a very heavy flicker to it. I'm assuming this difference arises from bd using the picture's native 24p timing and hddvd using 30p video (I got that from the wiki). Factoring in the simple difference of 30 gigs versus 50 gigs, blu-ray seems more and more like the objectively better format unless someone can point out a major drawback to me.

Speaking of the digitalbits/aicn thing, I've heard people say that they like hddvd more because it looks more film like and blu-ray looks more like digital video.

Looking at this in the long term, how many people do you know who own televisions and don't own a dvd player? Once enough people own hi def sets one of the formats might take off, but I don't see it happenning any time soon. Also, I noticed both vhs and betamax debuted in the mid-70's and it took a good ten years for one of those to die. Think about that.

The big question in my mind is whether one of these formats will finally beat the other once the big push for hi-def happens or if there will be a totally new format to wash away both hddvd and bd. I guess blu-ray winning is the lesser evil though, at least then there will only be only one slightly pissed off camp as oppossed to two of them.

One last thing,

I only recently discovered that NTSC film transfers slow down a 24p movie to 23.976 because our tv signal runs at 29.97 and I always thought it was exactly 30. Granted, it's not noticeable, but in Europe they have to deal with that massive 4% speed up. Is high-def taking off a lot faster over there? I would think they want to get rid of their analog system ASAP.

Nice line; consider it stolen for everyday use by me. Heh.

That's hard to answer. There are so many variables. For example, the first few Blu-Ray disks Sony released were encoded poorly and looked like crap. The first Blu-Ray Fifth Element (multipass! Sorry, something just makes me say that every time I mention that movie) looked no better and in some cases worse than DVD versions of the film. If I remember correctly my Home Theater magazine even refused to rate the first few movies and viewing experience due to the poor disks. Sony has since corrected that error. Head to head I think the picture quality is now pretty much equal. I don't think either camp can claim overall better PQ and AQ than the other without spewing bullshit.

I personally think there are three huge obstacles to mass acceptance of the new formats:
1 - Price. The players are getting much more reasonable but are still too high for mass acceptance. And the disks are priced way too high. No one wants to pay $30+ for a DVD these days no matter the format.
2. - Movie Selection - No Star Wars, Jaws, Indiana Jones, Alien(s), LOTR just to name a few. Sure it's great that I can see The Thing and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (two all time favorites) but it's ridiculous that neither format has the BIG movies. And both formats are releasing masses of utter crap. Anyone who really, really wants Aeon Flux, Streets of Fire and Purple Rain deserves to be culled.
3. Random Quality of Movie Picture - Check out The Matrix or Black Snack Moan on HD disk and it looks utterly stunning. Then look at the Hi-Def releases of Caddyshack, Talladega Nights and Army of Darkness. They look marginally better than the DVD release. It's hard to justify a new player for the masses when some movies don't look "stunning". Also, a lot of movies being filmed today have extra grain put in by the director. This makes the movie often look very atmospheric and heavy, but on Hi Def it makes it look bad IMHO. Just see the Miami Vice Hi Def movie. Some scenes are breathtaking and others look like they were run through a blender.

Side note, anyone see the reviews on the HD-DVD release of 300? Oh my goodness. IGN gave it a perfect 10 and others are saying it is the best PQ and AQ of any disk out so far. I cannot wait till next week!

360 HD-DVD player price drop

The Xbox 360's HD-DVD add-on is now $179 and includes five free movies. Movies are:

Apollo 13
Blazing Saddles
Casablanca
Chronicles of Riddick
Constantine
Dukes of Hazzard
Four Brothers
Tomb Raider
Perfect Storm
Rundown
Seabiscuit
Sky Captain & the World of Tomorrow
U2: Rattle & Hum
U-571
We Were Soldiers

So it's nothing earth-shattering, only $20. But for that price and five free movies, some may not mind the predicted short life span. This and IGN's review of the HD-DVD edition of 300 does do a little damage to my better judgment. Also considering that used players will probably be $150 now...I'll stop now.

As a former HD owner and current BluRay owner, I've got to say, HD was consistently better. And why is it that the HD section of my local Best Buy is growing much faster than the BluRay section? Just a cursory glance at NetFlix is enough to note the much larger selection of BluRay discs. Why aren't they on the shelves?

Hmm.....not a bad deal at all.

I would buy this if the wife would allow it. However the purse strings are tight at this moment.

I think that selection of freebies is mostly better than the Blu-Ray offer.

You can occasionally find the HD add-on at Sam's for under $179. No free movies, but still...

The price drop is August 1, and the free movie offer lasts until Sept. 30.

I just wish that Best Buy would stop it's ridiculously high prices for HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies. I haven't bought a non-game Blu-ray disk yet because I refuse to pay more than $20 for a movie now. I'm still upset at myself for not having taken advantage of an earlier Amazon.com special that had District B13 costing only $15.

Looking online though, it seems like both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray version of 300 will be using the same VC1/1080p 5.1 Dolby TrueHD transfer so there won't be any PQ/AQ advantage to each format.

It looks like there will be more interactive features in the HD-DVD version but judging from the IGN review, most of those are pretty useless. Does anyone know if the PiP commentary with Snyder will be on the Blu-ray version? I remember reading that Blu-ray used to have issues with that due to their inconsistent BD-J implementation or something (and would often do the PiP by just having a second copy of the movie with the picture embedded stored on the disc).

I can't wait to pick up this disc next week and piss off my downstairs neighbors. Though, if I manage to find it in Blu-ray at Blockbuster first on Tuesday I might just rent it to make sure they aren't screwing me over on extra features.

I read some pretty damning reviews of the BD version, but on further inspection they were ALL from the same guy. Sounds like both formats are exceptional.

The PiP commentary was removed from BD.

Do they still have the audio? Just no picture?

I don't think so, but there's a "makers commentary" that I'm pretty sure is only on the BD version.

Buy the LG "Super Blu" Blu-ray/HD-DVD combo player from Best Buy and get 10 discs free:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....&type=category

THIS is why we're having new formats forced on us. Why sell 40-YEAR-OLD VIRGIN for $10 when you can sell it again for $25?

And it's only $1,200! Fuck, I'll buy three!

This isn't going to become a standard until it's priced for the general consumer market. And I ain't touching it until that happens.

As if the 10 free discs somehow make up for the ridiculous $1,200 price tag. Shitheads.

People bitching about the price of the BR/HD is amusing considering Laserdiscs were usually never cheaper than $29.

Of course, that's why laserdiscs never cracked the consumer market. They were priced at a point where only hardcore film geeks (like myself) would touch them. The problem with the HD formats is that they're being marketed to the general public, who don't have the equipment to notice the difference, and therefore don't see the point in paying the higher prices. Most people just want to watch the movie; they're not interested in paying twenty extra bucks so they can see every pockmark in Lawrence Fishburne's face.

Yeah, I'd really like to see Megan Fox belly in HD, but for $1,200, I could probaby get her to sleep with me.

Have you seen Larry's pockmarks in 1080p at 52 inches? It's like looking into the face of God...glorious...

Since the Matrix set isn't out on Blu-ray yet, pretty much the only way I'd see Larry's pockmarks in 1080p is if I watch Mission Impossible 3 again. I don't know if it's glorious enough to justify that.

Maggie Q would have to come out of the TV and sit on my lap to make that worth it.

It sounds spoiled, bratty even, but it's still about the experience and I have a hard time watching a movie without surround sound, not in it's original aspect ratio and now not in HD. The latter is not such a problem. PQ is important, and if I have a choice between watching a film on TV, DVD and HD-DVD, I'm going to go with HD-DVD. I get more hung up watching something on cable television or DVD without surround sound (when it needs it, like LOTR, etc) - since the latter is an option.

I know it's a high price to pay for the added PQ (and as some mentioned, the PQ is sadly lacking in a lot of back-catalogue releases). Still, once you've given it a run, it's almost worth the cost. It won't add to the experience like surround sound or a huge screen will, but it's not just about being able to see someone's blemishes either.

Here's an excellent example:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9915826

I still don't think either format is priced right for a general audience (even though HD-DVD players are fairly affordable) and I'm not sure either is going to catch on in the long run.

I find it far more offensive that widescreen TVs are being sold to Joe Consumer so he can watch SD TV, stretched from 4:3 to 16:9.

I say we all join hands, and refuse to buy any HD product at all until they finally end the format war. When the shit sets on shelves long enough, either one format will suceed, or the companies will be offering so many free discs to buy their players, it will finally be worth the upgrade.

"What? 100 free HD-DVDs to buy your player? Sure."

Yeah, I'm not buying anything until at least next year. I'm gonna wait to see which one comes out on top before I make any decisions.

For now, me and my three-year old DVD player are still tight.

The format war does have its bonuses. The competition between Sony and Toshiba/Universal/Microsoft is the main thing driving down prices of the players. I think this will end like most product wars and the consumer will make the final decision. Whomever sells the most units and at the best (not lowest) price wins.

And with the HD-DVD releases (now or upcoming) of Matrix, 300, Hot Fuzz, the Jack Ryan Collection, Top Gun and Blade Runner I just can't boycott HD-DVD. The PQ is freaking amazing...on most disks.

I managed to score a brand new HD-DVD drive for the 360 back in March for about $80 and it's been sitting in it's box ever since then. I finally broke down and picked up Hot Fuzz on HD today and while I was a skeptic at first, I have to say the image quality was worth the extra $10.

Does the 360's HD-DVD drive do upconverting?

Greg,

Yea, the 360 does upconverting (everything is done via software too, not a chipset, etc like with stand-alone players - think PowerDVD on a computer).

Also, if you use the VGA cable you can set the resolution on all output to be what you want. You aren't limited to the big three (480, 720 or 1080). My Samsung is native at 1,366 x 768 and I have the output set to that. So my HD-DVDs come over natively and my SD-DVDs are upconverted to match.

I was close to buying the Toshiba HD-A2 player on Tuesday, the last day for the "5 free HD-DVDs offer". Actually on the Crunchfield site, ready to order. Then I read the player only upconverts regular dvds via the HDMI output.
I'm not ready to buy a new TV yet, and I'm sure another deal will come soon.

I'm not sure the A2 does a great job of upconverting SD DVDs anyway. Probably acceptable. But yea, HDMI isn't really a requirement, but a very nice-to-have. Another reason why it's a niche market. The newer TVs aren't a must-have to use the HD stuff, but to get the most out of it, it helps. HD on my oldish rear projection set isn't that great. Clear, but really soft.

I think by October I'll be making the switch to Blu-Ray, 300 is a film I'd love to experience in HD and to seal the deal
Spider-Man 1-3 has been announced for October 30th

Also going to have to figure out a good brand of T.V. to spring, as well as size.

O.k. so I know I'm late to the game, but I picked up a 360 add on HD DVD player today and am watching King Kong(came with it) and will watch Hot Fuzz after. What I'm missing in surround sound(no optical on my home theater system) is certainly made up in picture quality. Such a clear picture and I'm glad we made the purchase.

Invest in a sound system. Even a cheap theater-in-a-box setup. PQ is one thing (and I'm quite impressed with HD-DVD) but sound is like 80% of the experience (for me).

King Kong and Hot Fuzz are 2 great HD-DVD discs in terms of PQ. AQ on both is also extremely impressive.

I read today that they have sold 250k copies of 300 in HD formats over the first week of release. They didn't break it down between HD and BR but still, that's fantastic for HD disks. I personally tried to buy it (and Hot Fuzz) in HD-DVD and both were sold out at my local Best Buy (and according to their web site the four other BBs in the area as well).

I can't say I'm that surprised. I was kind of expecting 300 to be to the HD formats like The Matrix was to regular DVD. You know, the first big hit.

I love the movies, but I can't imagine the sometimes shaky digital work will hold up in HD.

Despite the fact that it's really not a great disc to show off the HiDef formats. The film's processing doesn't lend itself well to HiDef. It doesn't look bad, mind you, but it's not nearly as impressive to watch in HiDef as King Kong or Hot Fuzz or even The Warriors is.

I have a little Surround sound home theater but it didn't have an optical input, so yeah, that's the next thing on my year round Christmas list.

you do realize optical is worse for sound than transferring digital threw coaxial right?

Well I guess I'm just fucking clueless. You win!!

Oh and by the way, could you pinpoint where the Coaxial audio out is on my 360? Thanks. /sarcasm

Unless you're dropping a lot of money on a system and are an avid audiophile to boot, I doubt you'll notice a difference.

I've not done the research but that's the first time I've heard that statement made.