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B.P.R.D. is better than Hellboy

post #1 of 75
6/13/07 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
I almost hate saying that, but that's really the way it seems to have turned out. The B.P.R.D. minis that Mignola, Arcudi and Davis have been doing for the past few years have evolved into such a satisfying, rich story that I don't even miss the big red guy anymore.

I love Mignola's artwork, and I still think a few of the Hellboy stories are some of the best comics I've read, but that's a series that's gotten so bogged down in mythology that forward progression of the character is all but a vague memory. It seems that the current status quo for the series is that Hellboy wanders into some supernatural hootenanny, gets chained up, then a ghost lectures at him for a whole issue about destiny. Then he breaks free and beats it up and resumes wandering. It's maddeningly passive.

B.P.R.D., on the other hand, has become one of the best ensemble series out there, with each character given ample time to grow and mesh with the others. Captain Daimo is one of my new favorite characters, as he's sort of the anti-Hellboy. He has very little clue about all the weird shit that happens around him, but he doesn't care. He has a gun and a chip on his shoulder, and that's enough to get him through.

Kate has really turned into the breakout character for me, though. She went from being almost completely in the background to being a really central, human voice in the series. Her bargaining with the Marquis in Universal Machine really made me appreciate the character, whereas before she'd felt like the odd man out.

All in all, I just can't think of anything bad to say about the series. It just works on every level for me, and it's working on the levels that Hellboy just isn't anymore.
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post #2 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:28am
I think the last Hellboy mini I actually read was Conqueror Worm, so it's been a while for me. It's a shame to hear that the book has gotten so bogged down as of late.

I've really been meaning to check out the B.P.R.D. minis for a while now, but I stopped reading comics regularly a couple years back, so they kind of fell by the wayside. This post has kind of re-ignted the desire to check them out. I do pick up trades occasionally, so I'll probably have to drop some cash on these when I have some extra cash.
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post #3 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:34am
Thread Starter 
Just start with "Plague of Frogs" and work your way from there. The other trades for BPRD collect short stories, like "Hollow Earth" and "Night Train". They're good, but fairly inconsequential. With PoF, the actual main arc starts up, and it just gets better with each continuing series.
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post #4 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:37am
Cool...thanks for the tip.
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post #5 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
Oh, and did I mention that Capt. Daimo is a zombie? Because he is. He's a totally badass zombie.
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post #6 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:41am
I agree that Hellboy seems to have lost all momentum. I suppose that Mignola has other irons in the fire, but it looks like he's lost interest in it. I wouldn't mind waiting for the infrequent issue if it was filled with his art, but we don't even get that any longer. I don't know how involved he really is with BPRD--I wonder if Arcudi isn't the one carrying the weight there. I've been hoping that the spirit of Jack Kirby might appear to Mignola some dark night and give him a swift kick in the ass.
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post #7 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:45am
As much as I love Hellboy, he's been getting chained up and lectured by ghosts since the first arc. But this post did convince me to get my ass in gear and start reading B.P.R.D.
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post #8 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:50am
Thread Starter 
I guess that's true, but he had the solid supporting cast around him, and there were some fun arcs that didn't involve the Lovecraftian mythos Mignola has been building up, such as Almost Colossus, or The Wolves of St. August that were more action and plot-oriented.

If I had ONE complaint to level at B.P.R.D., it's that Abe is kinda mopey. He's being fleshed out a lot more, and I understand where his malaise comes from, but he's just such a depressing lead.
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post #9 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:52am
Have been looking forward to BPRD, just haven't gotten around to it yet (I think some surly Chewer by name of "Agent Helix" helped me find Hellboy in the first place).

Interesting to read complaints about the lack of forward momentum in Hellboy, though. I've only read the trades but what i like about the boy from Hell is the simplicity, the great art and the Nextwave-ish "let's find some strange and funny stuff to beat up."
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post #10 of 75
6/13/07 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
That Agent Helix guy, he sure does know his comics.
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post #11 of 75
6/13/07 at 12:18pm
I look forward to each new mini-series for BPRD. I think I read that they plan to switch over to a regular series sometime soon. Hellboy has been out of the picture for a little while now, but there's a new mini-series with him and it seems to finally pushing his own storyline ahead.
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post #12 of 75
6/13/07 at 5:10pm
Without having read beyond "The Hollow Earth", I believe Brad. I know Hellboy was originally intended as a team book, and I've always thought it should have stayed that way. Much as I love Hellboy, he's more interesting when playing off a team. And while Mignola has his strengths as a writer, even by "Wake the Devil" it was becoming obvious he didn't really know where he was going, storywise.
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post #13 of 75
6/13/07 at 8:47pm
Brad's right on. The new Hellboy series is solid, but BPRD has been rolling along for a while now. Hellboy was listing for a while, and it was sort of a relief when The Island came to a close. Hopefully it'll continue to come back strong, but BPRD holds all my interest now. Daimio, the focus on Abe Sapien - I even think the death of Roger was better handled in Hellboy's absence. I found Johann Kraus' reaction to Roger getting cut up more interesting than I think I would've found Hellboy's, for example.
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post #14 of 75
6/14/07 at 8:51am
Thread Starter 
The relationship between Roger and Johann was really great, and it had a genuinely sweet emotional climax. Johann is such an interesting character, himself. His "origin story", as told in Universal Machine, is so pathetic in its way, that you can't help but feel for the guy.
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post #15 of 75
6/14/07 at 10:03am
Having fallen off the TPB wagon for the past long while, my last Hellboy book was 'The Carrion Worm.' I was hoping to get caught up on what I've missed since, but is the general consensus that after this story Hellboy simply ceases to be worth the investment?

If so, I might as well jump ship to BPRD
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post #16 of 75
6/14/07 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanD
Having fallen off the TPB wagon for the past long while, my last Hellboy book was 'The Carrion Worm.' I was hoping to get caught up on what I've missed since, but is the general consensus that after this story Hellboy simply ceases to be worth the investment?

If so, I might as well jump ship to BPRD
There's a definite sense from both the epilogue to The Island in the Strange Places TPB and what's come out so far of Darkness Calls that things are coming to a head with Hellboy and the Beast of the Apocalypse storyline, and it's likely that it will intersect with BPRD and the frog war in a big way. For that reason alone I'd suggest at least reading the Hellboy TPBs as they come out.
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post #17 of 75
6/14/07 at 11:13pm
I really enjoyed Plague of Frogs, but sadly haven't read any of the other stories. I'll probably grab some TPBs one day. I got a question though, did they give Abe's origin in one of the stories? I remember readig somewhere about it.
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post #18 of 75
6/15/07 at 4:27am
I think the distance between the two will close as more Hellboy series come out (from what I've read, it sounds like Mignola seems aware of the stagnancy), but yeah, BPRD has a big leg up in many ways right now. And Guy Davis is "the man".

Yes, they did reveal Abe's origin (to some degree). The latest miniseries, Gardens of Souls, is elaborating on it right now.

Abe's origin might be my favorite idea Mignola has ever had.
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post #19 of 75
7/5/07 at 10:59pm
This is great to see. I just finished Hellboy's tpb's 1-6(going to get 7 now) and I was sad that it's almost over. So BPRD seems like it could be just as good, if not better!
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post #20 of 75
7/5/07 at 11:47pm
Well there is a Hellboy arc (Darkness Calls) being published right now, so it isn't really over. It's damn good too. You should still check out BPRD though, as I imagine they are going to crossover at some point.
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post #21 of 75
7/6/07 at 3:20am
Darkness Calls #3 kicks it up a pretty significant notch. Fegredo's doing a fantastic job mimicking Mignola's art style, but his action scenes feel a lot more kinetic than Mignola's did.
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post #22 of 75
7/6/07 at 1:37pm
Yeah, Fegredo is doing a good job, especially considering I didn't think I would ever be able to accept anyone but Mignola. Hopefully I'll pick up issue 3 today.
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post #23 of 75
7/6/07 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack C.
Well there is a Hellboy arc (Darkness Calls) being published right now, so it isn't really over. It's damn good too. You should still check out BPRD though, as I imagine they are going to crossover at some point.
Even better news!

Thanks.
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post #24 of 75
7/6/07 at 4:43pm
Thread Starter 
Fegredo is one of the most brilliant artists that gets the least exposure working today. He's absolutely amazing, but so often it seems like nobody knows it.
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post #25 of 75
7/6/07 at 8:32pm
Fegredo is made for Hellboy. Enigma is awesome.
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post #26 of 75
7/7/07 at 12:41am
You guys are right, Fegredo is great on Hellboy.

I'm glad there is such a grassroots fanbase for BPRD. I've been proclaiming around the comic shop lately that it has been kicking Hellboy's ass and have been getting some pretty weird looks.

Here's hoping del Toro NEVER gets his grubby paws on BPRD...
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post #27 of 75
7/7/07 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclaymoore
Here's hoping del Toro NEVER gets his grubby paws on BPRD...
Whoa whoa whoa sir. You're going to want to distribute your weight a bit more evenly, for this is thin ice that you tread upon.
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post #28 of 75
7/8/07 at 2:18am
Thin ice, definitely. I find that I'm often on the opposite side of most folks when it comes to del Toro's depiction of Mignola's universe. I've been collecting Hellboy ever since his first appearance in Next Men, he's definitely one of my all time favorites. I just didn't feel like the Hellboy movie truly did Hellboy's world justice. BPRD is so rich and wonderful, I'd hate to see that particular director "del Toro up" that comic.
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post #29 of 75
7/8/07 at 2:26am
Well, he was working on a pretty limited budget.
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post #30 of 75
7/8/07 at 2:44am
No doubt about that, but it was some of the story problems that bugged me the most. The budget had nothing to do with weaknesses in the basic script. Not trying to open a can of worms here, I just love the BPRD comic, and wouldn't want some of the same mistakes made in a movie adaptation of it.
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post #31 of 75
7/8/07 at 5:32am
Considering Abe, Liz, and Johann are in Hellboy 2, I suppose it'll be as close to a BPRD movie as we'll ever get.
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post #32 of 75
7/13/07 at 1:34am
By the way, the last issue of Garden of Souls is a must for any Abe fan.

Abe Sapien: Action Hero!
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post #33 of 75
7/13/07 at 1:40am
One of the nice things about the Hellboy DTV animated films is that its more like BPRD.
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post #34 of 75
7/13/07 at 1:48am
It's more like BPRD- with all the heavy, silly del Toro baggage to bog it down.
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post #35 of 75
7/13/07 at 1:50am
I've been running behind on BPRD lately, and I just bought the last two issues of Garden of Souls today. Fantastic! I think that the last couple of issues have moved way beyond Hellboy. Even without Mignola doing the routine art duties, Hellboy remains a visually beautiful book. Still, I think that the story hasn't advanced all that far--I feel like Mignola is still working from a page-long plan that he worked out ten years ago. Meanwhile, BPRD has really matured--can't wait for the new series.
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post #36 of 75
7/24/07 at 5:34am
Loving the BPRD books as of late, and yea I'm digging them way more than Hellboy...

And I definitely miss Roger still...even if his death was well done and poignant.

And dclaymoore...just curious but can you elaborate on the del toro baggage?

I'm guessing the agent myers type thing is what you didn't dig?
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post #37 of 75
7/24/07 at 11:48am
Well, as much as I dislike the Meyers character, I wasn't necessarily talking about him, since he wasn't in the animated movies. What I meant by the "del Toro baggage" was the whiny, whiny-ass Liz, the insistence on the portrayal of Hellboy as an adolescent, and making "Aw crap" his catch phrase, among other things. The del Toro Hellboy-verse just has so many weaknesses... it was a real shame to see those them transfer over to the animated movies.
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post #38 of 75
7/24/07 at 12:03pm
As opposed to Liz being a non-character in the comics?. "Aw, Crap." is his catchphrase, Hellboy just doesn't realise it is.
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post #39 of 75
7/24/07 at 4:10pm
Liz a "non-character"? The hell you say. In BPRD her character is much more realized, as she's one of the main focus points of the story. And she was never portrayed as the whiny ass valley girl that the movie and animated projects make her out to be.

Also, "Aw crap" isn't Hellboy's catch phrase at all in the comics. He's only said it once or twice. That was my point. del Toro turned it into Hellboy's catch phrase, and proceeded to put the further suck-down on the character by turning him into a lovestruck, catch-phrase-slinging caricature of the truly great comic character.
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post #40 of 75
7/25/07 at 3:48am
Uh, I enjoy the comics, but none of the characters, Hellboy most definitely included, are particularly complex. And yeah, Liz was a non-entity before Del Toro got a hold of her. I say this, of course, without having read much of BRPD (although she seemed pretty angsty in The Hollow Earth).
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post #41 of 75
7/25/07 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Uh, I enjoy the comics, but none of the characters, Hellboy most definitely included, are particularly complex. And yeah, Liz was a non-entity before Del Toro got a hold of her.

That's kind of the point: minimalist characters in a minimalist horror comic book. The characterizations have only deepened as the series has moved on, with Hellboy being revealed piece by piece in his own series, the guys in BPRD getting the same treatment in their own book. Liz was always sullen and withdrawn in the comics, never whiny with a valley girl accent as she has been portrayed by del Toro. I think that's my problem with his movie especially: Everything is way overblown. Overblown prop design, character design, set design, characterization, everything is so over the top and loud that no subtleties come through whatsoever.
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post #42 of 75
7/25/07 at 3:44pm
Thread Starter 
Says the guy with the avatar dangling its enormous tits all over the place.
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post #43 of 75
7/25/07 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Says the guy with the avatar dangling its enormous tits all over the place.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
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post #44 of 75
7/25/07 at 4:52pm
Thread Starter 
It was a joke. Unclench your little, humorless anus.
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post #45 of 75
7/25/07 at 4:55pm
Quote:
It was a joke.
I know. But I had to respond, been getting shit from the feminists lately...
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post #46 of 75
7/26/07 at 10:04am
Don't let the feminists bring you down man, it's not worth the mental strain.
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post #47 of 75
7/26/07 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclaymoore
I know. But I had to respond, been getting shit from the feminists lately...
Well, what did you expect when you decided to use that avatar? High-fives from the ladies?
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post #48 of 75
7/26/07 at 11:30am
Quote:
Well, what did you expect when you decided to use that avatar? High-fives from the ladies?
Actually, that was the joke- feminists giving me hell over the mention of the breasts on my avatar... Oh well. When you have to explain, it ceases to be funny.

Uh... what was the topic again?
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post #49 of 75
7/26/07 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
I think the topic was BPRD before you started bitching incessantly about del Toro.
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post #50 of 75
7/26/07 at 1:06pm
Aha.

There's a new two page spread of Guy Davis art in the new Wizard- saw it yesterday in the comic shop. It's group shot of Hellboy and the BPRD in the headquarters, with lots of little touches form the series thrown in. Great stuff.

Also, Darkness Falls #4 came out yesterday. It's really ramping up, hopefully we won't have to wait so long for the next arc. As good as it is though, I'm still considering BPRD the favorite.

Wow.
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