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AFI's 100 Movies Tenth Anniversary Special

post #1 of 60
6/19/07 at 6:46pm
Thread Starter 
This is gonna be airing on Wednesday on CBS. I'm wondering, are they just going to be adding the newer eligible films from the last ten years? Or are they going to retroactively fix some mistakes with the first list (no black or women directors)?

The original list...
Citizen Kane (1941)
Casablanca (1942)
The Godfather (1972)
Gone with the Wind (1939)
Lawrence of Arabia (1962)
The Wizard of Oz (1939)
The Graduate (1967)
On the Waterfront (1954)
Schindler's List (1993)
Singin' in the Rain (1952)
It's a Wonderful Life (1946)
Sunset Boulevard (1950)
The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957)
Some Like It Hot (1959)
Star Wars (1977)
All About Eve (1950)
The African Queen (1951)
Psycho (1960)
Chinatown (1974)
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975)
The Grapes of Wrath (1940)
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
The Maltese Falcon (1941)
Raging Bull (1980)
E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982)
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
Bonnie and Clyde (1967)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (1939)
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)
Annie Hall (1977)
The Godfather Part II (1974)
High Noon (1952)
To Kill a Mockingbird (1962)
It Happened One Night (1934)
Midnight Cowboy (1969)
The Best Years of Our Lives (1946)
Double Indemnity (1944)
Doctor Zhivago (1965)
North by Northwest (1959)
West Side Story (1961)
Rear Window (1954)
King Kong (1933)
The Birth of a Nation (1915)
A Streetcar Named Desire (1951)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Jaws (1975)
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969)
The Philadelphia Story (1940)
From Here to Eternity (1953)
Amadeus (1984)
All Quiet on the Western Front (1930)
The Sound of Music (1965)
M*A*S*H (1970)
The Third Man (1949)
Fantasia (1940)
Rebel Without a Cause (1955)
Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)
Vertigo (1958)
Tootsie (1982)
Stagecoach (1939)
Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977)
The Silence of the Lambs (1991)
Network (1976)
The Manchurian Candidate (1962)
An American in Paris (1951)
Shane (1953)
The French Connection (1971)
Forrest Gump (1994)
Ben-Hur (1959)
Wuthering Heights (1939)
The Gold Rush (1925)
Dances with Wolves (1990)
City Lights (1931)
American Graffiti (1973)
Rocky (1976)
The Deer Hunter (1978)
The Wild Bunch (1969)
Modern Times (1936)
Giant (1956)
Platoon (1986)
Fargo (1996)
Duck Soup (1933)
Mutiny on the Bounty (1935)
Frankenstein (1931)
Easy Rider (1969)
Patton (1970)
The Jazz Singer (1927)
My Fair Lady (1964)
A Place in the Sun (1951)
The Apartment (1960)
Goodfellas (1990)
Pulp Fiction (1994)
The Searchers (1956)
Bringing Up Baby (1938)
Unforgiven (1992)
Guess Who's Coming to Dinner (1967)
Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942)
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post #2 of 60
6/19/07 at 6:47pm
So what would you add/replace to that list to keep it at 100? Or are they going to 110 now?
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post #3 of 60
6/19/07 at 6:52pm
It's staying at 100 and "Yankee Doodle Dandy" is going off the list.

Screenhead has been running predictions based on voting patterns from the 1997 poll. But, they're all over the place.

Honestly, I'm interested in what changes position more than what gets added.
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post #4 of 60
6/19/07 at 7:19pm
Forrest Gump, Yankee Doodle Dandy and Tootsie can be left off. I'd replace them with Do the Right Thing, Blade Runner and either Shawshank Redemption or Ghostbusters. Heck, even Lion In Winter would be better than any of the three that I'd take off.
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post #5 of 60
6/19/07 at 7:21pm
I'd knock Forrest Gump and Dances With Wolves out of there before I'd take out Yankee Doodle Dandy. And I wonder if Birth of a Nation stays around.

Would they dare remove one of the Godfather films and let the series be represented by one film?
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post #6 of 60
6/19/07 at 8:04pm
Thread Starter 
"Forrest Gump"'s gotta go. Also, "The Jazz Singer"- important, but not that great. Some more Woody would be appreciated, though I could also think of three Spike Lee films that are missing.
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post #7 of 60
6/19/07 at 8:57pm
So these movies aren't all that great anymore?
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post #8 of 60
6/19/07 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chavez
So these movies aren't all that great anymore?
I don't think anyone is saying that, just that there are films that have come along in the last ten years that probably deserve to bump some of those out.
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post #9 of 60
6/19/07 at 11:07pm
There is a definete lack of Ghostbusters on that list. But then, I've been saying that since 1997 and obviously my opinion is a little skewed. But I am glad that in recent years the film has experienced a resurgence in popularity and appreciation for the classic it rightfully is, and not just "a kids movie."

But if they couldn't even be bothered to put the boys in grey on the 100 Best Heroes list, I doubt they're going to give it much more recognition this go round.
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post #10 of 60
6/19/07 at 11:10pm
They must be going for a Sight and Sound thing. Too bad the list is kinda shitty to begin with and will only get worse.
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post #11 of 60
6/20/07 at 1:33pm
LOTR, perhaps?
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post #12 of 60
6/20/07 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
And I wonder if Birth of a Nation stays around.
Unless they've just gone crazy PC, I don't see how they could bump a film that important off the list completely.
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post #13 of 60
6/20/07 at 4:23pm
I've always thought it was a pretty solid list... I haven't seen everything on there (I never liked Forest Gump, though).
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post #14 of 60
6/20/07 at 4:46pm
My guess is we'll see Titanic listed...maybe The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King! And I get the sinking feeling they'll be stupid enough to include Crash(!)
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post #15 of 60
6/20/07 at 7:24pm
There were so many bad choices on that list it's hard to know where to start. Oh, wait, I do know: adios Forrest Gump!
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post #16 of 60
6/20/07 at 9:20pm
Ok list so far. although personally I would have Pulp Fiction higher and I'm glad they have Blade Runner on it at least.

They also just mentioned a "horror film made within the past decade" was coming up. Hmmm. The Ring? The Sixth Sense?

Edit: Its the Sixth Sense. Seriously?
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post #17 of 60
6/20/07 at 9:24pm
The Sixth Sense made a lot of money and got a Best Picture nomination. It was a shoe in.


edit: And there's Titanic. It'll be fun to look back after the show is over and see how many people in this thread were right.
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post #18 of 60
6/20/07 at 9:40pm
I realize The Sixth Sense was probably a shoe-in, I'm just kind of surpised it was before The Last Picture Show or Pulp Fiction.

Forrest Gump rears its schmaltzy head at 76.
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post #19 of 60
6/20/07 at 9:47pm
Ah, Beaks really just wanted to see that preview for Kid Nation.
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post #20 of 60
6/20/07 at 9:56pm
I'm really glad I just got Eva Mendes's opinion on Network.
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post #21 of 60
6/20/07 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Sutton

Forrest Gump rears its schmaltzy head at 76.
Ah, I am happy I didn't bother with this list. Gump is mindrape.
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post #22 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:01pm
Wow, that Blade Runner commercial was hot.
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post #23 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:01pm
Cabaret? It didn't even make the first list did it?

And I just watched the "Blade Runner" TV spot. Unbelievably awesome. They used Mansell's score from "The Fountain".
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post #24 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:20pm
I'm happy to see that Fellowship made it instead of Return of the King.

edit: They said before the commercial that the next two were the oldest and newst films on the list, so that means Birth of a Nation is off because it came out the year before Intolerance.
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post #25 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:22pm
Me too.

"Intolerance"? I consider myself a pretty decent film buff, am I a cretin for never hearing of this. Is it cynical to wonder if this is a "statement" more than anything else?
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post #26 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:23pm
Seconded on Fellowship. SO much better than Return.
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post #27 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:38pm
This list is making me realize how few films I've seen that predate 1970 or so.
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post #28 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Me too.

"Intolerance"? I consider myself a pretty decent film buff, am I a cretin for never hearing of this. Is it cynical to wonder if this is a "statement" more than anything else?
Oh it's definitely a statement, because it wasn't on the previous list. They knew they had to put a Griffiths film on the list, so they chose one that seems more progressive than it actually is instead of the one that is universally seen as racist.
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post #29 of 60
6/20/07 at 10:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen
Oh it's definitely a statement, because it wasn't on the previous list. They knew they had to put a Griffiths film on the list, so they chose one that seems more progressive than it actually is instead of the one that is universally seen as racist.
That and ol DW himself thought Intolerance was the better movie.
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post #30 of 60
6/20/07 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
Me too.

"Intolerance"? I consider myself a pretty decent film buff, am I a cretin for never hearing of this. Is it cynical to wonder if this is a "statement" more than anything else?
Intolerance is pretty amazing. It's the movie people champion because they can't champion Birth of a Nation because of its horrible racism.
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post #31 of 60
6/20/07 at 11:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen
Oh it's definitely a statement, because it wasn't on the previous list. They knew they had to put a Griffiths film on the list, so they chose one that seems more progressive than it actually is instead of the one that is universally seen as racist.
Have you even seen it? Because it's a pretty amazing movie...
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post #32 of 60
6/20/07 at 11:41pm
I'm going to just come right out and say it at the risk of sounding profoundly stupid:

I had no clue that Liza Minelli was Judy Garland's daughter.
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post #33 of 60
6/21/07 at 12:18am
Oddly, most people that come right out know that.
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post #34 of 60
6/21/07 at 3:18am
Tis a better list, it's like they felt they had to class it up some, so Searchers jumped a shitload, and so did Raging Bull. More silents, Sunrise, The General Intolerance (which is Griffith's masterwork), all good things.
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post #35 of 60
6/21/07 at 5:48am
As toothless, predictable and (very nearly) pointless as the show was (Julia Roberts on Goodfellas?) I have to say I choked up at the sight of Jack Lemmon choking up at the thought of the end of City Lights. Two things that can always get me- Mister Jack Lemmon and the end of that movie.
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post #36 of 60
6/21/07 at 6:04am
I watched the original special, and I remember being moved by Burt Reynolds choking up over the end of To Kill a Mockingbird.
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post #37 of 60
6/21/07 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker
Have you even seen it? Because it's a pretty amazing movie...
I actually own it, and I'm not saying it's a bad choice. But it is a statement.
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post #38 of 60
6/21/07 at 10:12am
I'd say this list is slightly better. I was surprised at some o the major leaps ("Searchers", "City Lights", "Raging Bull" (awesome), etc. I'll go see "Intolerance" now. I remember thinking it was pretty ballsy to include "Birth of a Nation" so high last time, but I'm not surprised or displeased that they gave its slot to another Griffith movie.

I greatly prefer "The Godfather" being number 2 and I still think "Citizen Kane" is a great movie to sit atop this list.
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post #39 of 60
6/21/07 at 11:17am
No Third Man? Weak.
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post #40 of 60
6/21/07 at 1:36pm
Some interesting changes. Glad to see Toy Story get some love (if only a little bit!); if any 3D animated film was to make the list, that would've been my choice. And looks like you Blade Runner-philes got a double-dose last night; I was surprised it made the list this time.

Surprised but pleased at the huge leaps up the list by The Searchers and Vertigo, Hitchcock's best IMO. Any movie that can make Jimmy Stewart creepy and scary has to be acknowledged as great.

Oh, and it's about time that Shawshank Redemption got some love (and that it was higher on the list than Pulp Fiction and Forrest Gump, its contemporaries). One of my favorite movies ever.

Hmmm...there's a surprising amount of silent films on the list this time around. Guess I'd better try to find some of them on DVD.
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post #41 of 60
6/21/07 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M
No Third Man? Weak.
I think that's a British film (despite having prominent U.S. actors).
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post #42 of 60
6/21/07 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord
I think that's a British film (despite having prominent U.S. actors).
It was on the original list (at #57) and was on the ballot this time. The voters just suck.
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post #43 of 60
6/21/07 at 3:43pm
Pulp Fiction and Goodfellas were way too low. And Ghostbusters woulda been nice.
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post #44 of 60
6/21/07 at 4:49pm
Thread Starter 
How did "The Manchurian Candidate" plummet off the list but "The Sound Of Music" rose?
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post #45 of 60
6/21/07 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M
It was on the original list (at #57) and was on the ballot this time. The voters just suck.
Really? Well, it shouldn't have been. It's a British film. In fact, I think it won the British version of AFI's "Best" list a while back. Even if it was on the ballot, people might not have voted for it for this reason. At best, it was partially financed by an American company, IIRC.

Glad to see Spartacus, and to a far lesser extent Saving Private Ryan, join this list. Far, far happier to see Dances with Wolves and Dr. Zhivago given the boot. Vertigo is a fine movie, but I don't know if I would even put it in Hitchock's top three (I'd have seven or eight Hitchcock films in my personal Top 100 list, so it's not as though I'd leave Vertigo off altogether). The Searchers deserved to move way up...but that far up?

The Academy screw-ups with Ordinary People over Raging Bull and Dances with Wolves over Goodfellas just loom larger and larger with every passing year, don't they?

**I just saw Kabong's post. That's a tragedy. Sound of Music is schmaltzy dreck, and Manchurian Candidate is genius.
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post #46 of 60
6/21/07 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 
I can see the rationale for a re-evaluation of these films, as ten years does change a lot of perception. So I can see the value of certain films rising and dropping. But the changes in rankings seem almost arbitrary here...

-Arbitrary films drop- "Bridge of the River Kwai" from 13 to 36. "Dr. Strangelove" from 26 to 39. "A Clockwork Orange" from 46 to 70? "French Connection" from 70 to 93? "Ben-Hur" from 72 to 100? How did these films get THAT much worse as the years went on?

For that matter, how did "The Sound Of Music" go from 55 to 40? Might as well put "Grease" on the damn list, too. As far as musicals, "An American In Paris" completely fell off this list, as did "My Fair Lady", both which trump the Von Trapp's. And did "Rocky" honestly leap from 78 to 57? Why? How did that movie suddenly become more relevant?

-Subbing "Intolerance" for "The Birth Of A Nation" is a completely pussy move.

-"Lord of the Rings" is the best film released in the last ten years? That's some weak shit. Also from the last ten years... "Toy Story", "Titanic", "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Sixth Sense". M.I.A. were "L.A. Confidential", "Heat", "Happiness", "Three Kings", "Being John Malkovich"/"Adaptation", "Munich", "The Departed", "The Insider"... sad to see only "6th Sense" amongst '99 representatives- that was one phenomenal year.

-Along with "Manchurian Candidate" being unceremoniously hustled off the list, why boot "Frankenstein"? "Fantasia" also departs, leaving "Snow White" and "Toy Story" as the "best" American animated films of all time? "Dr. Zhivago" took the highest fall, from 39 to nowheresville, with "Amadeus", "All Quiet On The Western Front" and "From Here To Eternity" going from the fifties to nowhere. "The Third Man" is taught in every film class in America, but it was booted here (and somehow not replaced by "Touch of Evil") as was "Stagecoach" and Spielberg's best, "Close Encounters". So much for "Patton" as well as "Rebel Without A Cause", and, somehow, the list is Coen-less, as "Fargo", the former most recent film, vanishes. But thanks, AFI, for ditching "Dances With Fucking Wolves".

-Critical re-evaluations of "Do The Right Thing" allowed it to represent the first ever black director. But 96 is too low. Nice to see appraisals of "Blade Runner" and the probably perfect "Nashville", while it is dismaying to see "The Last Picture Show" finally crack the list, only to be 33 spots below the inferior "American Graffiti". And I guess the fanbase was insufferable, because lo and behold, "The Shawshank Redemption" makes an appearance.

-What I would like to see on a future list: "Manhattan", "The Big Sleep", "The New World", "L.A. Confidential", "The Conversation", "Munich", anything from David Lynch and Cronenberg, "Being There", "Dawn of the Dead", "Mean Streets", "Touch of Evil" and "Straw Dogs" (is that one eligible?).
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post #47 of 60
6/21/07 at 6:05pm
I'd just like to point out that the AFI voters didn't correct one of their most egregious mistakes from last time, as Blue Velvet is still not on the list.
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post #48 of 60
6/21/07 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KABONG
-Arbitrary films drop-..."Dr. Strangelove" from 26 to 39. "A Clockwork Orange" from 46 to 70? ...How did these films get THAT much worse as the years went on?
Well, Kubrick was still alive and working when the original list came out. That could explain the drop.

Quote:
-Subbing "Intolerance" for "The Birth Of A Nation" is a completely pussy move.
Seconded.

Quote:
- "The Third Man" is taught in every film class in America, but it was booted here (and somehow not replaced by "Touch of Evil") as was...Spielberg's best, "Close Encounters".
I didn't even notice that Close Encounters was gone. Bastards.

Quote:
-Critical re-evaluations of "Do The Right Thing" allowed it to represent the first ever black director. But 96 is too low.
I don't think it was "critical re-evaluation" (as I don't think that film's reputation has changed that much since '97) as much as "oh, the list caught shit last time for no minority representation...I'll vote for Do the Right Thing, but I'll put it low on the list."
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post #49 of 60
6/21/07 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Amadeus", "All Quiet On The Western Front" and "From Here To Eternity" going from the fifties to nowhere
Amen.

I still lament The Big Sleep and L.A. Confidential's absences. Toy Story 2 is far superior to its predecessor.

I'm surprised folks are upset at LOTR:FOTR's inclusion at fifty.
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post #50 of 60
6/21/07 at 6:58pm
And is Singing in the Rain really that good? The 5th best film good?

I don't get it, I guess.
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