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Doctor's Refuse to Offer Treatment that Offends their Belief

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19190916/

Quote:
Lori Boyer couldn't stop trembling as she sat on the examining table, hugging her hospital gown around her. Her mind was reeling. She'd been raped hours earlier. Bruised and in pain, she grimaced through the pelvic exam. Now, as Boyer watched Martin Gish, M.D., jot some final notes into her chart, she thought of something the rape counselor had mentioned earlier.

"I'll need the morning-after pill," she told him.

Dr. Gish looked up. He was a trim, middle-aged man with graying hair and, Boyer thought, an aloof manner. "No," Boyer says he replied abruptly. "I can't do that." He turned back to his writing.

Even under less dire circumstances than Boyer's, it's not always easy talking to your doctor about sex. Whether you're asking about birth control, STDs or infertility, these discussions can be tinged with self-consciousness, even embarrassment. Now imagine those same conversations, but supercharged by the anxiety that your doctor might respond with moral condemnation — and actually refuse your requests.

That's exactly what's happening in medical offices and hospitals around the country: Catholic and conservative Christian health care providers are denying women a range of standard, legal medical care. Planned Parenthood M.D.s report patients coming to them because other gynecologists would not dole out birth control prescriptions or abortion referrals. Infertility clinics have turned away lesbians and unmarried women; anesthesiologists and obstetricians are refusing to do sterilizations; Catholic hospitals have delayed ending doomed pregnancies because abortions are only allowed to save the life of the mother. In a survey published this year in The New England Journal of Medicine, 63 percent of doctors said it is acceptable to tell patients they have moral objections to treatments, and 18 percent felt no obligation to refer patients elsewhere. And in a recent SELF.com poll, nearly 1 in 20 respondents said their doctors had refused to treat them for moral, ethical or religious reasons. "It's obscene," says Jamie D. Brooks, a former staff attorney for the National Health Law Program who continues to work on projects with the Los Angeles advocacy group. "Doctors swear an oath to serve their patients. But instead, they are allowing their religious beliefs to compromise patient care. And too often, the victims of this practice are women."

Physicians anywhere can deny you care. But some states back up M.D.s with specific laws allowing them to do so, says Elizabeth Nash, public policy associate at the Guttmacher Institute research group. Whose side is your state on?

Compared with the highly publicized issue of pharmacists who refuse to dispense birth control and emergency contraception, physician refusals are a little-discussed topic. Patients denied treatment rarely complain — the situation tends to feel so humiliatingly personal. And when patients do make noise, the case is usually resolved quietly. "

In many cases, women don't even know a doctor is withholding treatment. Boyer and Harnish, for example, wouldn't have realized they'd been denied care if they'd been among the estimated one in three women who don't know about EC. In the New England Journal of Medicine survey, 8 percent of physicians said they felt no obligation to present all options to their patients. "When you see a doctor, you presume you're getting all the information you need to make a decision," notes Jill Morrison, senior counsel for health and reproductive rights at the National Women's Law Center in Washington, D.C. "Especially in a crisis situation, like a rape, you often don't think to question your care. But unfortunately, now we can't even trust doctors to tell us what we need to know."
I had no idea this was such a wide-spread problem. I guess I just thought Doctors would know better (religious observance corresponds inversely with intelligence -- aren't doctors smart?). Ethically, a Doctor should be required to present legal/approved medical procedures and medications to patients as options for their symptoms and complaints, particularly when specifically asked about those options. Even if the doctor feels that he cannot provide that procedure/medication, the option should be presented and explained, and the physician should be forced to immediately refer the patient to a non-objecting doctor if desired by the patient.

Also, the doctor should receive an immediate MRI to check for brain irregularities, and undergo a psychiatric evaluation to see if he/she is delusional, believes magic sky faeries are talking to him/her, or engages in the ritualistic eating and drinking of materials he/she believes to represent human flesh and/or blood.
post #2 of 32
If Jesus had applied himself and become a Doctor instead of a carpenter he could have set some ground rules and prevented all this. Slacker.
post #3 of 32
I heard about this nonsense going on at Wal-Mart (I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong), but with actual, professional doctors in a hospital? Christ.

Any doctor doing this should lose his or her job. End of story.
post #4 of 32
Religion is this planets main problem. Fucking retards! We can't even do anything about Global Warming since Jesus freaks don't give a fuck about this world we live in cause they think they are going to some sort of glorious afterlife. FUCK YOU!
post #5 of 32
Conservatives tend to defend this shit to death, but in my mind it's right up there with non-assimilating immigrants as far as complete asstard behavior goes.
post #6 of 32
If that shitfuck was on fire it would be against my beliefs to piss on him.

Unless piss is flammable.
post #7 of 32
I believe piss will put out a fire just like water. Yellow, crappy smelling water.

What the hell kind of medical school did they graduate out of? Jesus U? Doctors are smart, my ass.
post #8 of 32

not even that

I don't think that doctors should even be allowed to refer to someone else in this case. EC has to be administered within a certain time frame after intercourse.
post #9 of 32
I just saw this thread, so sorry for the slight delay, but -

About two weeks ago, I had to call the local medical center to find/make an appointment with a new gynecologist. The receptionist asked me which gender I'd prefer my doctor to be and I responded female. She told me that there were six female doctors accepting new patients. Then she asked me if birth control would be "an issue for me." When I asked her what she meant, she explained that three of the six doctors she had just found wouldn't prescribe birth control under any circumstances. I told her to place me with one of the doctors who would prescribe it.

Though I was aware that there are pharmacists and doctors who take this particular ideological stance, I was surprised at the sheer number of them at a large, urban hospital in a fairly progressive area. I spoke with my dear friend, a nursing student, about it, and he told me that there are a number of his classmates who are very, very conservative, and who are probably going into the profession, in part, to promote their ideology.
post #10 of 32
Quote:
"No," Boyer says he replied abruptly. "I can't do that."
That moment must be like Christmas morning for a fundamentalist "Doctor".
post #11 of 32
...:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternate
Little Danny couldn't stop trembling as he sat on the examining table, hugging his catcher's mitt. His mind was reeling. Tackling an incoming runner, he had broken his arm in three places.

"He'll need an X-Ray," said Danny's mother.

Dr. Gish looked up. He was a trim, middle-aged man with graying hair and, Danny thought, a creepy, self-righteous manner. "No," Danny says he replied abruptly. "I can't do that." He turned back to his writing. "X-Ray machines are the devil's kaleidoscopes."
post #12 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsky
That moment must be like Christmas morning for a fundamentalist "Doctor".
No shit.

Zooey, that's several kinds of fucked. The thing that surprises me is that these people are working for major hospitals in big cities; I expect them to operate smaller private practices or something. Are hospitals in Milwaukee really so desperate for new docs that they have to hire ones that provide treatment based on non-medical concerns?
post #13 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsky
That moment must be like Christmas morning for a fundamentalist "Doctor".
I bet it kinda turns them on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
Zooey, that's several kinds of fucked. The thing that surprises me is that these people are working for major hospitals in big cities; I expect them to operate smaller private practices or something. Are hospitals in Milwaukee really so desperate for new docs that they have to hire ones that provide treatment based on non-medical concerns?
No, I really don't think they are. There's the Medical College of Wisconsin, right in the city, a great medical school over at UW-Madison, and multiple schools cranking out nurses left and right. I don't understand why these people are hired. I can see the rationale for having one or two on the staff, to work with patients who would prefer to see doctors of a certain ideological bent, but to have so many seems way out of line. It seems as if it could end up stopping a patient from receiving treatment that she requests/requires, esp. since birth control isn't given to women soley as a contraceptive. I had a friend who had to take it because she had endometriosis that was so awful that she couldn't function. Oh, and, she's a lesbian. So, yeah, don't give birth control to the lesbian, she might accidentally "abort." Perhaps she can just pray the pain away.

I also don't understand why the AMA isn't coming down on these people like the wrath of God. Their choices seem, to me, to be deeply unethical and unprofessional. I can't imagine, working at a Catholic university as I do, telling a patron I couldn't tell her where the Bibles are because I'm an agnostic and the New Testament runs counter to my beliefs. I knew what I was getting into when I took this job, so did those doctors.
post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey
Perhaps she can just pray the pain away.
Knelling at the altar like you wanted me, callin' me...

PRAY THE PAIN AWAY! PRAY THE PAIN AWAY!

Look out, Weird Al!
post #15 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissZooey
I also don't understand why the AMA isn't coming down on these people like the wrath of God.
Sadly, I think they recognize the fundamentalist movement would take that as an attack and respond with their legions...
post #16 of 32
Honestly, though, let's say I'm a Christian fundamentalist that's going into medicine, but I don't believe in birth control. Why in the sweet carmel fist would I decide to specialize in gynecology?
post #17 of 32
To further your judgemental anti-woman agenda, naturally.

Like someone said above, I imagine these doctors just live for the moments they can withold treatments or medication.
post #18 of 32
Yeah, pretty much what Jacob said. It just creates another moment in which to spread the Word as they understand it. And if this happens to restrict the treatment options of a woman who doesn't want to get pregnant, has a medical condition that can be treated with hormonal birth control, or who has been raped, well, maybe she wouldn't have a problem if she wasn't such a filthy, sinning whore.
post #19 of 32
I would really like to know how in any ones book (pun intended), The rights of a wad of jizz outweigh the possible life long devestation and trauma of an unwanted rape pregnancy. It is just absolutely unfathomable to me. With the hundreds of millions of mastabators out there, one rapists ejaculant is a drop in the bucket (again intended), but a trained doctor will side with it over a living breathing human being?
post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by horrid
I would really like to know how in any ones book (pun intended), The rights of a wad of jizz outweigh the possible life long devestation and trauma of an unwanted rape pregnancy. It is just absolutely unfathomable to me. With the hundreds of millions of mastabators out there, one rapists ejaculant is a drop in the bucket (again intended), but a trained doctor will side with it over a living breathing human being?
Because once that ejaculate fertilizes an egg, soul magic is invoked, and that egg becomes the property of Jesus.

One of my favorite "Ask a Catholic" exercises goes like this: Let's say a paraplegic boy of five sits in a clinic waiting room next to a fridge filled with 10,000 blastocysts. A fundamentalist carrying explosives bursts through the door and threatens to blow up the clinic, but there's a back door behind you where you can make a quick escape. Assuming you can save either the paraplegic boy or the 10,000 blastocysts (by wheeling the fridge out the back door), which would you choose? That's 10,000 potentially healthy souls versus one paraplegic boy.

Me? I'd flush 100,000,000 16-week old fetuses down the toilet to save one paraplegic boy with down syndrome.
post #21 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz
Honestly, though, let's say I'm a Christian fundamentalist that's going into medicine, but I don't believe in birth control. Why in the sweet carmel fist would I decide to specialize in gynecology?
Perhaps, in part, to foist your beliefs upon otherwise unwilling recipients.
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Happenin
I believe piss will put out a fire just like water. Yellow, crappy smelling water.
Hmmm, you should probably get that checked out. Your pee should smell like pee, not like crap. And if it smells, you should probably be drinking more water.
post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravedigger
Hmmm, you should probably get that checked out. Your pee should smell like pee, not like crap. And if it smells, you should probably be drinking more water.
It could be from asparagus.
post #24 of 32
I'm religious, but it shocks me how willing some people are to force their beliefs on others. If I felt birth control was immoral, I wouldn't work at a place that sold condoms, not work there are refuse to do my job.

At Spring Break in PCB this year a cashier at Wal-mart refused to sell my friend alcohol because his 20 year old girlfriend was in line with him. She said she was a Christian, and couldn't do that. That doesn't make sense on so many levels - by her religious standards she can sell to 21 year olds, but not 21 year olds with 20 year old girlfriends?
post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minsky
Because once that ejaculate fertilizes an egg, soul magic is invoked, and that egg becomes the property of Jesus.
Sigged!

This is why I love CHUD. I read an article that makes me incredibly outraged and generally pissed off at the world, and then the Chewers take over and mock the injustice, thus making me feel better and making me want to fight back against said injustice. Thank you for being you.

I think any doctor that would refuse a rape victim necessary medical care deserves to be fired, it's really horrifying that the doctor in the article still has his job and is still doing this shit.

No one has the right to force a woman to carry a baby for nine months and then go through hours of painful labour and then have to either put it up for adoption or take care of it for the rest of her life. The thought that in the future that could happen to ME really fills me with panic. No one should have that much control over another persons body, hell, another persons whole life.

The worst part is that these people think they're doing good and fighting for the side of all that is pure and holy. They go to bed every night imagining how proud God is that they forced so many new human souls into the world and condemned so many sinners. Damn it, it would be so much easier if they just knew they were evil and delighted in all the pain and misery they were causing, they'd be easier to fight if it was all out in the open. As it is they have a way of slipping through the cracks and getting into positions of power, they convince others to follow them and oh god they keep breeding!
post #26 of 32
This is beyond unfathomable.
This kind of thinking comes down more in the favor of the RAPISTS set of rights than the victims.WTF? It's not endorsing rape as such but certainly it's offering the rapist a set of rights, ie: you're evil fucking sperm has a right to gestate in the body of someone who didn't want to express herself intimately with you in the first place let alone raise your child, than it offers rights for the woman who has been violated.
What kind of twisted fucking morality is that? The sort of thinking that would veto the right of a woman to decide whether or not she wants to sire the child of a man who brutalized her in such a fashion is coming from a pretty fucking hateful place if you ask me.
And using the "Hey the sperm is a potential human and has a soul" argument is total bullshit. It essentially collapses under the reality of how awesome it must be for that kid to one day learn they are the product of a violent rape, and their mother may very well have resented them for their whole life, what with them being a constant reminder of what she went through and all.
Yeah...he's a loving god all right.
Exposure to this kind of religious douchebaggery seems to actually dehumanize these Doctors, particularly when they are confronted with what must be one of the most urgent and human of situations. I am aware that Doctors have to maintain some level of professionalism and emotional "distance” from their patients, but for them too not understand the deep, sustained and possibly permanent effects of a sexual assault that RESULT IN PREGNANCY when considering a request for a morning after pill is diabolical.
It’s like this whole “respect a life that could be” jazz is actively preventing them from respecting the life that is.
I am constantly thankful I live in a country that has not yet surrendered itself to this level of delusion.
Yet.
post #27 of 32
Abortion is in the process of being legalised in my country after a country-wide referendum clearly pointed that the majority of the population wanted it.

The biggest problem the government is facing now are conscientious objector doctors that are putting their personal beliefs in front of a democratically-achieved decision.

In my opinion, they're just on a power trip. I understand being a doctor is more than a job, but being a doctor does not make you BIGGER than the job. And if you're a doctor in my country, your job description now entails carrying out abortions for women that fit the requirements. If you don't like it, quit or go practice in a country that doesn't allow abortion.

Egotistic assholes.
post #28 of 32
Re: doctors as evangelizers.

While I'm sure the kind of docs who refuse treatments to patients for religious reasons delight in that opportunity, it still baffles me. I mean, if you want to spread your faith that badly, I'm pretty sure they allow you to be a missionary or whatever without 7 years of costly education. But I guess my priorities and those of Christian fundamentalists don't exactly line up. Shocker!

However, I've never quite gotten this kind thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt OCallaghan
And using the "Hey the sperm is a potential human and has a soul" argument is total bullshit. It essentially collapses under the reality of how awesome it must be for that kid to one day learn they are the product of a violent rape, and their mother may very well have resented them for their whole life, what with them being a constant reminder of what she went through and all.
I don't think abortion should be illegal, and this certainly is about the worst scenario a woman could find herself in, but arguments like this just don't wash with me. Yeah, a lot of potentially abortable kids might have it rough if their moms are forced to have them, but to say they're better off never living? That seems really extreme to me.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of valid arguments for allowing abortions, but saying it's what is best for the fetus raises my eyebrow.
post #29 of 32
Yeah that was a fairly sloppy and more furious version of what I am trying to put across which is, basically, I think that in cases like this the Actual person's needs are infinitely more important than the Potential person (the fetus).
An unwanted and unplanned pregnancy is going to be a drain on the parents life to some extent no matter what the scenario, but one that is the end result of rape? I would never wish for a person to be born under those conditions, especially if it was against the will of the parent.
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt OCallaghan
I would never wish for a person to be born under those conditions, especially if it was against the will of the parent.
I have a very close friend that was conceived as the result of a rape, he's actually one of the most successful and happy persons I know.
post #31 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica
I have a very close friend that was conceived as the result of a rape, he's actually one of the most successful and happy persons I know.
Well I must confess that is awesome. The conceit that something wonderful could come from something so heinous is quite uplifting I must say.
I doubt I would ever change my mind in regards to whether a Dr has the right to deny the request of woman to terminate in such a situation however.
post #32 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt OCallaghan
Well I must confess that is awesome. The conceit that something wonderful could come from something so heinous is quite uplifting I must say.
I doubt I would ever change my mind in regards to whether a Dr has the right to deny the request of woman to terminate in such a situation however.
I don't think anyone said that; it's certainly not a choice I want to make for anyone else. I just get irked when the "well, the kid's life would probably suck anyway" part of the argument comes up, because it seems to imply that you can somehow evaluate the lives of others and decide the precise point where they aren't worth living.
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