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Favorite franchises, and the best films in each?

post #1 of 94
Thread Starter 
Also, bonus points for

a. Not just going with the "conventional wisdom" choice and
b. Making a solid argument as to why


1. The Star Wars saga

Most people go with The Empire Strikes Back. I'd pick the original, because it was kind of nice when the story and characters were simpler, before the weight of all the saga's mythology began to accumulate. Han Solo was more fun before he started to become a nice guy. Maybe it is nostalgia, but I have fonder memories of Star Wars when it was new and the possibilities as to where it could go were yet to be explored.

2. The James Bond films

Well, most people say Goldfinger. But let's face it, our hero spends a lot of the middle portion locked up and not able to do much in the way of action. Plus, it is such a product of its time. I'd say Casino Royale is now the new golden boy for the Bond franchise. It makes Bond contemporary, compelling, gritty and REAL. Plus we have a real actor in the role.

3. Indiana Jones

The consensus is usually Raiders, but I like Temple of Doom, which is often viewed as the black sheep of this franchise. Because it had the balls to be different. It's dark, creepy, even gory at times, but it delivers just as much action as its predecessor if not more, and the thrills are sustained over a longer period -- most of the second half, in fact. I could even tolerate the little kid, and that's something that often sinks a movie for me (Phantom Menace, anyone?)

4. Star Trek

Just about everyone says Wrath of Khan is the best Trek film. In my opinion, right director but wrong movie. I prefer No. 6, also known as The Undiscovered Country. It's much darker than your average Trek, which makes it more interesting, and I think the climactic battle in space here is way more exciting than that in Wrath of Khan. There's also some nostalgia at play, since this is the last call for most of the original crew.

5. Batman

I guess we're really dealing with two franchises here, the four original films and the new Chris Nolan series. But out of them all, the one I think just never gets its due is Batman Returns. I love dark and disturbing, and this one has those qualities much more than the Nicholson/Prince-saturated original. I think Keaton's Batman seems more sinister here -- look at his expression when he first rolls into town to deal with the Penguin's goons, or when he plants the bomb on the unwitting strongman. He's smiling as if he's really enjoying meting out justice to these lowlifes. There are no bad performances. Christopher Walken makes the film better just by being in it, and Michelle Pfeiffer steals the show. Ironically, the best scene is when she and Keaton are not in costume but simply enjoying a dance at the masquerade ball. It's well written and suspenseful, and only serves to emphasize how much better the series could have been if Keaton and Burton had stayed on.

6. Alien

Now, let's stir things up a bit. Most people are torn between the first two. My vote goes for Alien 3, which has more guts than any other film in the series. The film's attitude seems to be that life does not always turn out the way we would like. It was very bold to kill off most of the characters we cared about in the first five minutes. It was even bolder to kill off our heroine at the end. You may not like it, but you've got to respect it on a certain level. I also think the production design here is the best of the entire series, and it was brilliant to make this a prison movie at the same time.

7. Die Hard

Instead of the original, what's wrong with Die Harder, the second film in the series? The fun was in reversing the premise of Bruce Willis trapped in an enclosed environment by instead having him run ragged all over a large airport. The stakes were clearly higher -- think about that scene where the plane full of people crashed, killing everyone. That injected a very somber note into an otherwise popcorn summer thriller, and makes Willis' victory at the end that more satisfying.

8. Superman

Can someone tell me: What was so wrong about Superman Returns? Everywhere I turn, it seemed like everyone was bashing it. Why? Because it wasn't wall to wall action? Doesn't that get boring after a while? In an age of nonstop explosions and gunfire, or other forms of violence that bludgeon moviegoers, what's wrong with a summer movie that is actually about values? I like that this film was a throwback to the more family-friendly movies that Richard Donner had made. If anything, this film did a better job of showing the isolation of Superman, like the scene where he flies up into space and spends a few minutes listening to the cacophony of sounds coming from the earth below. It would have been easy to make the little kid annoying and the James Marsden character an obnoxious jerk. Singer did not do that -- which makes the Superman-Lois relationship more complex because it's not as easy to say that they should be together. And Kevin Spacey honored what Gene Hackman had done while giving Luthor even more of an evil, unstable edge. Say what you will about the movie, I loved it and hope they do more.

9. Romero's zombies

Most people will go with Night or Dawn, but the one that has really grown on me is Day of the Dead. There are a lot of reasons, but I can sum it up in two words: Joe Pilato. People usually cite Duane Jones or Ken Foree as the standout actor of this series, but Pilato's Capt. Rhodes, a paranoid, controlling, violent, vulgar tyrant of a soldier, is as valid a comment on the military-industrial complex as the social parallels from the other Romero films. Each of these films deals with people in the pressures of a confined environment but the underground bunker presented here makes for the most compelling drama, I think. The film is talky but never dull and often brilliant, and there is plenty of payoff for gorehounds. Funny how Romero's actors are often unknowns, yet they can act circles around big-name stars from bigger-budget movies.

10. Dirty Harry

Usually people say the original is the best. I think it has to be Sudden Impact, which has perhaps the most iconic Harry moment ("Go ahead, make my day") and was directed by Eastwood himself. It's also interesting that the "killer" turns out to be more than a bit sympathetic, and that whole relationship is handled in an interesting way by Eastwood.
post #2 of 94
Ernest Rides Again, because Varney rides a runaway cannon for an hour and it's hi-larious!!!!1!
post #3 of 94
I bet you wrote this up in a neat notepad window, and then pasted it all over the place.

Also, you're missing the point if you're forcing yourself to steer clear of "conventional wisdom". Don't be afraid to be redundant.
We all float down here.
post #4 of 94
SUDDEN IMPACT!?! It's all about the force pal, MAGNUM FORCE!
post #5 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
SUDDEN IMPACT!?! It's all about the force pal, MAGNUM FORCE!
Exactly.
Suzanne Somers bit-part plus dirty cops? Sign me up.
post #6 of 94
Harry Vs. Hal Holbrook, Hutch, Spenser for hire, and Otter. It's no contest.
post #7 of 94
Favorite Horror Franchise: A Nightmare on Elm Street
Best Entry: A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 3: Dream Warriors
Why?: It's the series finally living up to it's potential. All sorts of really cool sequences, art design, effects, Harryhausen skeletons, expansion of Freddy's backstory, the best teenage characters to date (Kincaid being my personal favorite), and Larry Fishburne.
post #8 of 94
Favorite Franchise: Gamera
Best Entry: A lot of people say either the original or Gamera Vs. Barugon but those people are communists and don't deserve to live to see another birthday. I say it's Gamera Versus Guiron.
Why?: It's a gentle coming of age story in a post-Hiroshima Japan. As childhood gives way to awkward adolescence two young boys set out on one last adventure before hormones (and differing opinions on sexual identity) drive them apart. The forthcoming teen angst is represented by the sword faced Guiron. Angry and phallic, Guiron lashes out at all around him, destroying the very things that mean the most to him. Gamera, symbolic of nostalgia and innocence in childhood, fights the destructive nature of Guiron but to no avail. Adolescence is far too strong to overcome such mawkishness.

The defeat of innocence doesn't last long as the pull of nostalgia allows Gamera to raise from the dead and ultimately defeat Guiron. However, it is a bittersweet moment as Gamera knows that it is only a matter of time before some other monster rears it's ugly head to try and destroy the innocence of youth. Time stands still for no turtle.

Plus, it has a character named Cornjob, so that's kind of cool, too.
post #9 of 94
Favorite Franchise : Pumpkinhead
Best Entry : Pumpkinhead
Reason Why?: Lance Henriksen as Ed Harley
Runner Up : Pumpkinhead: Ashes to Ashes
Reason Why?: Lance Henriksen as Ed Harley's ghost.
post #10 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Panarotti
Most people go with The Empire Strikes Back. I'd pick the original, because it was kind of nice when the story and characters were simpler, before the weight of all the saga's mythology began to accumulate. Han Solo was more fun before he started to become a nice guy. Maybe it is nostalgia, but I have fonder memories of Star Wars when it was new and the possibilities as to where it could go were yet to be explored.
You know, I was watching the unfucked-with theatrical version on DVD the other day, and it occurred to me that I'd almost be willing to live in a world without Empire if it meant that Star Wars was the only film in the series. Watching it as it played back in '77, it's just such an effective piece of storytelling, straigh-forward, clear, and wondrous. If Lucas had said "Okay, that was fun, let's move on" and been done with the universe, I think I'd be okay with it.
post #11 of 94
I fully agree with you on your choices for Star Wars and Batman, Ron. And while I wouldn't call Superman Returns the best of the series, I certainly like it a lot more than the general population round these parts. Apparently, if a graphic novel gives us an alternative somber, actionless take on a superhero, it's art. If a movie does it, everybody bitches because there's no robot-punching.

As for Bond, with a few months gone by since the latest release, I'm inclined to agree. I think Casino Royale is now solidly tied with From Russia With Love for me.

Still, I have to agree with Nexus that a lot of the time, avoiding the conventional wisdom for its own sake is pretty pointless. A lot of the time, movies are considered the best of their series because they really are, not out of some kind of stubborn traditionalism.
post #12 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
You know, I was watching the unfucked with theatrical version on DVD the other day, and it occurred to me that I'd almost be willing to live in a world without Empire if it meant that Star Wars was the only film in the series. Watching it as it played back in '77, it's just such an effective piece of storytelling, straigh-forward, clear, and wondrous. If Lucas had said "Okay, that was fun, let's move on" and been done with the universe, I think I'd be okay with it.
I couldn't agree more. I love The Empire Strikes Back, I even quite like Revenge of the Sith. But Star Wars is the only one that stands alone. It would be an all-time great even if Lucas had choked to death on a cherry pit the day it opened.
post #13 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
Favorite Horror Franchise: A Nightmare on Elm Street
Best Entry: A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 3: Dream Warriors
Why?: It's the series finally living up to it's potential. All sorts of really cool sequences, art design, effects, Harryhausen skeletons, expansion of Freddy's backstory, the best teenage characters to date (Kincaid being my personal favorite), and Larry Fishburne.
Couldn't have said it better Pat. I guess that's what happens when you get Frank Darabont to write your sequel... too bad George Lucas doesn't feel the same way.
post #14 of 94
I got a few:

The Godfather Trilogy - The Godfather
The best period.

Batmans - Batman Begins
While the original was classic (and a very close 2nd to me), the 2nd ruined the character of Batman, while still a wonderful film. Forever was good initially, but Billy Dee was robbed, let alone what happened next. Begins finally hit the aspect I wanted to see, a more realistic take on the Batman, let alone an actor who was actually proper height.

Indys - Raiders
Raiders is the pop corn, old adventurer serials realized. Temple of Doom seemed just bizzare at times, but did it nail the spirit right. Crusade was just not Raiders. It had crazy sidekicks, and cheaper thrills.

Star Wars - Empire
Eps 1-2 are backstory that should of been an opening crawl. Episode 3 has some decent carnage (with a final 10 minutes that is the height of the movies). Episode 4, while simple, is too simple. Empire expands it all. Jedi was out of story.

Die Hards - Die Hard

Bonds - Casino Royale/From Russia with Love (sorry its a die for me too)
post #15 of 94
"Back to the Future" is my favorite franchise ever, and Part II is one of the most endlessly entertaining and rewatchable films ever made.
post #16 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
Favorite Horror Franchise: A Nightmare on Elm Street
Best Entry: A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 3: Dream Warriors
Why?: It's the series finally living up to it's potential. All sorts of really cool sequences, art design, effects, Harryhausen skeletons, expansion of Freddy's backstory, the best teenage characters to date (Kincaid being my personal favorite), and Larry Fishburne.
And you can't forget about the music of Dokken.
post #17 of 94
Believe me, I've tried.
post #18 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Panarotti
Instead of the original, what's wrong with Die Harder, the second film in the series? The fun was in reversing the premise of Bruce Willis trapped in an enclosed environment by instead having him run ragged all over a large airport. The stakes were clearly higher -- think about that scene where the plane full of people crashed, killing everyone. That injected a very somber note into an otherwise popcorn summer thriller, and makes Willis' victory at the end that more satisfying.
Is that you, Len Wiseman?
post #19 of 94
Halloween: Halloween III Season of the Witch
Why?: Ditched that dullard Michael Myers for a real story about stonehenge and druids and corporate shenannigans and masks that make snakes and bugs explode from your face. Plus, sexy, sexy Tom Atkins.

Edit: And robots. Can't forget the robots.
post #20 of 94
Franchise: X-MEN

Best Entry: X-MEN 3

Why?: abandons murky, unimaginative approach taken by the previous 2 movies and makes the franchise more coherent, colourful and cartoonish. Dares to include scenes that are actually comic-booky, i.e. Magneto lifting up a fucking bridge, Kitty Pryde vs. The Juggernaut, etc. Also, BEAST.

Franchise: LETHAL WEAPON

Best Entry: LETHAL WEAPON 2

Why?: the violence and harshness of the original, with the increased laughs of 3 and 4, with a stronger story and more police force badassery than any of them. Tits. Nail-gun. Riggs slamming a guy's head in a car door. The line, "We're back, we're bad, you're black, I'm mad!"

Franchise: 3 NINJAS

Best Entry: 3 NINJAS: HIGH NOON AT MEGA MOUNTAIN

Why?: Hulk Hogan. Colt is played by some bone-chilling unisex kid I'm still not sure the gender of. Title contains the word "MEGA".

Edited because I spelt Magneto as "Magento", a cardinal sin.
post #21 of 94
Franchise: Terminator

Best Entry: Terminator 2: Judgement Day

Why?: I have to give props to the effective, scrappy low-budget thrills of the original, and even have to say T3 is quite a lot of fun. However, T2 is just one of those movies that's damn near perfect, in spite of being a bit dated. It balances humor and nightmarishly high stakes better than just about any movie out there. Cameron knows exactly when we need another chase scene, and when we need to slow it down for some quiet desert stuff. The effects are still pretty good today, and gave us one of the creepier modern movie villains. Plus, stupid catch phrases aside, the relationship between John Conner, his mother and the Terminator is actually better-handled than in most dramas.

Franchise: Nightmare on Elm Street

Best Entry: New Nightmare

Why?: 1 is the classic, 3's the fun one, the rest are so-so to terrible. New Nightmare is actually the first one I saw, and it's still my favorite. It's said to be a sort of Beta version of the genre deconstruction found in Scream, but I kind of think it does it better than Scream. After the utter trash of the past couple movies, Craven actually found a way to class it up and give us a movie that takes its sweet time, developing the characters and letting the situation unfold. It's also not the first movie about making movies where people play themselves, but it's certainly a bold move to do it as a horror film. Plus, I think there's a lot of interesting stuff in there about the necessity of violent art as an outlet for channeling something that you sure as hell don't want coming out in real life.
post #22 of 94
Franchise: Leprechaun
Best Entry: Leprechaun 5 Leprechaun In Da Hood
Why?: Leprechaun (Warwick Davis) + Ice T = Cinematic genius.
post #23 of 94
I think the first half of New Nightmare is the best entry in the Nightmare on Elm Street street, but the second half compleatly ruins it.
post #24 of 94
This has already been discussed a bunch here, but I think New Nightmare is only great in concept, not execution.
post #25 of 94
Nightmare 3 is my fave.The biggest stumbling block in New Nightmare is the way they keep referring to fictional Freddy as something SO scary and such a huge icon of terror in the public consciousness blah blah. But he never was! He was sort of scary in one movie, for a pretty narrow teenage audience, then a big joke for the following 10 years.
Back to the Future 2 is my favorite too. It's as snappy as the original, with less potential incest!
Alien 3 smacks of "dark" teenage poser poetry. I can't possibly choose between 1 and 2.
Return of the Jedi is the worst of the first three Star Warses, but I think it's underappreciated. We don't get many summer sequels about the good guy being groomed for patricide.
post #26 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexc.
Alien 3 smacks of "dark" teenage poser poetry.
I don't understand this.
post #27 of 94
I dunno, it has that "look how dark I am" vibe to me, without much actual content or good characters. It feels like it was written by the nihilists from Big Lebowski.
post #28 of 94
It has Charles S. Dutton is what it has.
post #29 of 94
This is gonna sound strange, but it's a toss up between LoTR and the Friday the 13th series.

Fellowship & Final Chapter/Jason Lives (tie)

I really like the entire ST series and can watch those over and over.
post #30 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexc.
I dunno, it has that "look how dark I am" vibe to me, without much actual content or good characters. It feels like it was written by the nihilists from Big Lebowski.
And it was directed by a total fucking hack...oh wait.

I kid, I kid. Alien 3 is not my favorite either.
post #31 of 94
You can do a lot worse than Alien 3...or Alien Resurrection, for that matter. I mean, at least both of those movies had real directors. Can we start an alternate thread for worst franchise entries?
post #32 of 94
Could you really do worse than Alien Resurrection?
post #33 of 94
It was called Alien Vs. Predator.

It's worse.
post #34 of 94
He's got you there.
post #35 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexc.
I dunno, it has that "look how dark I am" vibe to me, without much actual content or good characters. It feels like it was written by the nihilists from Big Lebowski.
Again, I still don't understand what you mean. It's got a darker, moodier visual palette, but that's all I can come up with.
post #36 of 94
No love for the apes? Escape and Conquest are the high points, but all work just fine for me.
post #37 of 94
Augh, how could I forget the Apes? I blew off my entire childhood.

The original and Conquest are both great, especially considering the minuscule budget on Conquest, and the scale of its story. But Escape is the real gem for me, as it's such a departure from the series. A somber character movie with a devastatingly tragic ending.
post #38 of 94
I actually liked Alien vs. Predator more than Resurrection, since it didn't seem to take itself as seriously. But then, watching Resurrection gave me melonoma.
post #39 of 94
I thought about writing about the greatness of Escape and Conquest, but, you know, I had work that needed to be done. It's funny though, because the reasons why those two sequels are good are so wildly different. One's a lot of lighthearted fun (at least until the shooting starts) at the expense of our celebrity obsession, and the other's just unrelenting social turmoil and the most violent in the series. Even though, if I'm not mistaken, half the reason Conquest was made is because they wanted to use that location for something and it looked like the future circa 1972.
post #40 of 94
I don't know if not taking itself seriously saves it. The problem with AVP is that it has no memorable elements whatsoever. There are no interesting characters, no fun battles, nothing. Resurrection can at least make the claim of being memorable. I'd rather see a movie fail big than play it safe and wind up boring.

Not that I'm watching either one ever again, mind you.
post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Collins
Ernest Rides Again, because Varney rides a runaway cannon for an hour and it's hi-larious!!!!1!
This is insane. Did you not see Ernest Goes to Camp? That runaway lawn mower always drives by in the background and it's really fucking hilarious.

Also, Ernest Scared Stupid has trolls! They turn you into wood and are defeated by milk! But don't make the mistake of hitting them with Hungarian miak.
post #42 of 94
Ernest Goes Somewhere Cheap was always my favourite.
post #43 of 94
Turtles. Parachutes. 'Nuff said. Truth be told, that tribal ceremony at the beginning of Ernest Goes to Camp used to make me nervous.

As for AVP vs. Resurrection, let me get out of the way that Resurrection is, in my opinion the worst of the regular Alien movies. But it's well shot and has a cast full of wonderful weirdos and badasses. In fact, I don't think the movie really drops the ball that badly until the introduction of the Newborn, a creature/plot point that literally makes me feel bad and I don't know why. Until then it's just an entertaining but unnecessary sequel. Also, to give my age away a bit, it was the first R-rated movie I got to see without my parents, back in the pre-Columbine glory days when all you needed was permission.

AVP, on the other hand, to borrow a criticism from another recent PG-13 Fox sequel, feels like part of either franchise in name only. It's as if they had no basic understanding of either of their monsters, and wrote the script based on somebody who did see the other movies telling them what happened. This results in Aliens being on Earth (which totally pisses on the big looming threat of the entire Alien franchise), Predators who show up in cold places instead of sweltering heat, and a Facehugger-to-adult growth period of like half an hour. Also, that human/Predator team-up was way awkward, prompting people to shout "Kiss her!" at the end of my screening.
post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David
I don't know if not taking itself seriously saves it. The problem with AVP is that it has no memorable elements whatsoever. There are no interesting characters, no fun battles, nothing. Resurrection can at least make the claim of being memorable. I'd rather see a movie fail big than play it safe and wind up boring.

Not that I'm watching either one ever again, mind you.
I didn't say anything about the movie being saved. They're both utter crap, I just find the stench of one oh-so-slightly closer to tolerable.

I haven't seen Alien 3 in a long time, but I remember liking it at 13. It gets props automatically for giving Charles S. Dutton such a prominent role.
post #45 of 94
Alien vs. Predator is the worst film in ANY franchise. Except for the up n' coming AlienS vs. Predator (singular). I have full confidence that it will be worse.
post #46 of 94
Goddammit, how could I have been so stupid as to post anything vaguely resembling a defense of Aliens vs. Predator?

It's ass, and I retract my earlier statement, whose intended purpose was to express my absolute disdain for Alien: Resurrection.
post #47 of 94
Schwartz, it takes guts to retract a defense of a bad movie.

If it makes you feel any better, James Cameron once was quoted as saying AVP was the best post-Aliens movie in the series. He also was quoted saying he liked T3. Maybe he just likes getting quoted.
post #48 of 94
Fuck that, I'll go to the mat for Terminator 3. Weakest of the series, sure, but I thought it was a legitimately good flick, with a couple of underappreciated leads (Arnie aside) and a great ending.
post #49 of 94
I really like T3 as well. Great car chase, awesome ending. To be honest, and I'm going to get slammed for this, but I enjoy it more than T2 as far as repeat viewings go. I fully admit that its not a better film, but I enjoy it more. There. I said it.
post #50 of 94
Back-to-back, Aquafresh. I have a feeling that's how we're going to have to fight this one.
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