Weezer

Pinkerton and the Green album are their best.

The last two, yuck.
I gave up.

There's going to be another album? I had heard rumors after Rivers got married that the band was effectively finished.

I agree that Make Believe was a pretty inane, misguided attempt at...something. But, I still maintain that the other four albums are solid in their own special ways.

The band pretty much breaks up and gets back together on Rivers' whim it seems. So yea, they were "finished" when he got married.

Goddamn you half Japanese girls... You do it to me every time.

Agree 100%.

The first Blue record was one of the last great rock records from track one to track ten.

They have done nothing even close since.

Seriously, the Green album over Blue? You don't get to look cockeyed at me when I say I like the New America anymore. You've forfeited that right.

The Green album is arguably their worst. It's a bland, inoffensive "back to basics" effort with a few middling pop songs and no drive or interest behind it. Maladroit was actually much, much better.

I never quite understood why anyone has a problem with Maladroit. It's a little heavier than their other albums, but it is what I wanted out of the green album, which really disappointed me. And Make Believe is a really boring album. It's grown on me since it came out, but I will admit that it's not that great. maybe half good. It was also on the Make Believe tour where they started sucking live. When I saw them co-headling with the Foo Fighters I would have walked out if I wasn't looking forward to seeing the other band.

Untrue. "Pinkerton" is 100% pure and unadulterated awesomeness. See "Across the Sea" and "The Good Life" for evidence thereof.

That being said, I will now invite ridicule and scorn by stating that I enjoyed both "Maladroit" and "Make Believe".

Maladroit really isn't bad. It's more experimental (for Weezer, anyway) than Green, and overall it works well as a whole. Dope Nose and Keep Fishin' are both great pop tracks, too. Make Believe, as Flansered said, is ultimately kind of a boring album. It's got good parts, and it's easy to listen to, but it's pretty much just fluff.

Pinkerton is without a doubt their best work, and it's doubtful they'll ever be able to top it.

I am blown away at the Pinketon love. It's great and all, but for real now... The Blue album is way beyond that fucker. To each their own, I guess.

No, Blue is a great debut, but Pinkerton absolutely demolishes it. It's a more mature, thoughtful, better album.

Pink Triangle alone smithereenatizes that statement. That song is Utricle Cancer-inducing. And the first time I heard El Scorcho... Yikes.

I can't think of one weak song on Blue! I do like the songs produced by Matt Sharp though (Tired of Sex, Across the Sea). They sound like In Utero outtakes.

I don't think that their fanbase was ready for Pinkerton at the time. I know I wasn't. I remember buying it when it was released and thinking that I really liked half of it. I kept listening to it, and over the years I started "getting" it. It really is a great album, and I think a lot of people start liking it after experiencing some of the things the songs talk about. The only bad thing about it is that it spawned a bunch of really shitty emo bands who say they are inspired by it.

You're not backing your point up well by slamming two of the best songs in their catalog. Say what you will about the silliness of some of the lyrics, but "Pink Triangle" has one of their best choruses and a great guitar sound. "El Scorcho"'s a grower that didn't work for me as a single at first, but it does the amped up Pavement thing that I always thought they were going for on "Undone (The Sweater Song)" much better than anything else they've ever recorded.

Anyway, Millette's totally right. Pinkerton's easily their best album. Blue is very good and catchy, but it's a little too well-adjusted and polite - it doesn't rock the same way, and the subject matter is mostly mundane or silly. Green is like Blue in this respect, but the songs are soundalikes and it's further disappointing in light of the progress they made on Pinkerton. Maladroit is probably their third best; their attempts to expand their sound are admirable, but Cuomo continues with his post-Pinkerton streak of impersonal lyrics and riff-by-numbers songwriting (although at least he's got a few more numbers in his repertoire this time). I never bothered with Make Believe, since the singles were so terrible.

They've always sounded more like tarted-up, more typically constructed, less surreal Surfer Rosa outtakes to me. Either way, I suppose the Steve Albini influence is definitely there in the production.

Blue is easily my favorite--even though it's got one or two tracks that are weaker than anything on Pinkerton it's also got three or four of the best songs they've ever made. I give them credit for continuing to make albums after some of that awesomeness. Personally if I had written "My Name Is Jonas" I would have just stopped there, unable to conceive of a better song.

I appreciate Pinkerton's or-perhaps-I've-said-too-much intimacy, although "Across the Sea" creeps me out. He sure as hell doesn't sound like he's describing an "eighteen-year-old girl".

I feel that way about "Only in Dreams".

He's obsessing about the Japanese schoolgirl fetish and applying it to his fantasies about this girl, and hating himself for it. The key lyric is "I could never touch you/I think it would be wrong".

I love the Blue Album and Pinkerton, but couldn't get into any of the others, really. They each have one or two decent songs, but just come off as really uninspired due to Rivers' apparent refusal to write personal songs.

And what was with that Rolling Stone interview a couple of years ago, where he came off as completely batshit insane?

I remember that RS interview. His interviews he always came across as shy/not wanting to talk, but then that interview came out and it was like he was some weird guy who just wanted to hang out at spiritual retreats and meditate. I think the commercial failure of Pinkerton broke his brain.

Here it is:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/cov...er_weird_world

Pinkerton was waaaay ahead of it's time, and everyone was puzzled.
It's one of the best records of the 90's and miles better than the Blue album.
...for the drum production alone.

Bradley and I disagree about the Green/Blue argument, but that's OK.
Blue is a great debut, but I think I like Green more due to personal circumstance (I had an amazing summer to the Green, Blue was way overplayed in High School), so it's all like my opinion man.

Maladroit, while not being bad, is however very boring. I just cannot be swayed about that one.

I'm in the Pinkerton fan club myself. I think I'm:
Pinkerton
Blue
Green
Maladroit
Make Believe

I taught myself to play guitar listening to the Blue album (among other things), and I still listen to it this day and never get bored with it. Green is fun, though I don't think it has a lot of substance, there aren't any songs on there that I ever skip. The other two, meh.
Pinkerton is a must listen for any Pixies fan. Great start to finish.

The only good thing about Make Believe is that it made the Green album seem a little better. I liked the Green album a lot when it came out, but I think that it had to do with the fact that I thought I would never get another Weezer album. Looking back on it now, it's really bland. At least with Maladroit they tried a heavier sound and had some really cool songs. Like "Take Control", which sounds like a song Gene Simmons would have written in the early seventies. I never would have expected something like that from them.

Absolutely - you can hear it right from the beginning of "Tired of Sex." Like I mentioned above, it sounds a little like the guys wanted to evoke the crunchy Albini production on Surfer Rosa. Unlike Albini, they had no qualms about making it sound like a Big Rock Album. The production manages to make the levels sound like they're in the red a lot of the time, but it maintains a pop sheen - it's the perfect match for an album of brilliantly composed, loosely performed* pop songs.

* I think that deliberate looseness also makes it stand out in their catalog, as everything since sounds rehearsed-to-death. Pinkerton sounds like the work of a band barely holding it together, a trait that defines many of the best rock'n'roll albums (London Calling, the Replacements' Let It Be, to name a couple). It's a perfect fit for the subject matter.

I'd also dare to say that the looseness, heaviness, and production of the rhythm section on Pinkerton almost recalls a Physical Graffitti-era Zeppelin in the pounding, groovy, authentic rock-ness of it all - something that couldn't have been further from cool in 1997.

I can hear that. Whenever you're able to give drums that loose, but heavy, sound, you're basically paying homage to the throne of Bonham. That's one of the things I've loved about the latest two New Pornographers albums, too - it's more subtle, but there's a Bonham pound on the kick under all of the pop.

I'm just going to throw in another Yay for Pinkerton. I saw Weezer in concert once, right after they released Pinkerton and it was such a great show. While I love Blue as well, Pinkerton is classic 90's rock.

And while on the topic of 90's rock, I have fallen back in love with Local H's Pack up the Cats. Talk about an underrated 90's rock album. I never gave this album a good enough listen until last week. It's friggin great.

So long as you're comfortable with being WRONG WRONG WRONG, it's all cool.

For any Weezer fans dismayed by the last album, I'd seek out the demo for "Pig". It was recorded by Rivers a few months back and it's a great, great throwback to their heyday.

Favorites? Blue for me all the way, followed closely by Pinkerton and Green.

I agree with you, but he did say it was his own personal bias/emotional attachment to Green.

Weezer's had a few great non-album tracks (b-sides/compilations, etc) too. Not enough bands doing this now; too many just pimp out their songs to remixers, usually with non-interesting results.

That's fine.

He's still wrong.

Their cover of "Baby One More Time" is aces, especially in consideration of the fact that Cuomo can barely keep a straight face during the entire performance.

I haven't seen that, but I'm over the "Let's cover a really shitty song! It'll be HILARIOUS!" thing.

And Brad, you're right. Fuck the Green Album. "Island in the Sun" must have taken what, ten seconds to write?

Yeah, the whole ironic cover movement really burned itself out pretty quickly. I've always been partial to Mykel and Carli as far as Weezer b-sides go.

wasn't that Fountains of Wayne?

There's a ton of covers of "Baby One More Time". The Flaming Lips have also done a version.

Edit: You're right, I'm wrong. Apologies to all.

Tons of bands covered that song (never heard Weezer's, though) - FoW's was better than most in that they approached it semi-seriously, acknowledging that it's actually a halfway decent pop song.

It's similar to what Richard Thompson did with "Oops, I Did It Again" and Ted Leo did with "Since U Been Gone." Once you get past what might seem like an ironic choice of material, the performances are actually pretty straightforward and even a little reverent.

I've never had a problem with being wrong, and I'm also not the world's biggest fan of arguing,
so I shall be in the corner spinning the new Yanni at the Acropolis double-disc collector's edition on vinyl,
and you guys can go back to loving the Sweater Song.

Once you know the subject matter of that song it's quite sad. Interestingly enough, for those who like Jimmy Eat World's "Bleed American" they broached the same subject on that album with "Hear you Me". I think Weezer and Jimmy Eat World were touring together when Mykel and Carli died in the car accident.
As far as B-Sides go, a good friend of mine made an awesome Weezer "Album" out of B-sides and acoustic songs alone. Their cover of Velouria is awesome, even if it pretty much mimics the original. Also, there's a great song, "I just threw out the love of my dreams", it's an awesome duet between Rivers and the lead singer of That Dog.

I used to have that song "Jamie", from the DGC rarities comp, on repeat from ages 16 to 18. I still love it.

The Blue album is still my favorite. I didn't even know they had an album after Maladroit, but I did like that one enough to know all the songs. Along with the general consensus, the Green album I kind of couldn't get into.

You're a total asshole.

After talking up the B-Side album my friend made I had to pop it in. Why "You gave your love to me softly" didn't make it on an album I'll never know. That song is dangerous in a car, as it seems to mysteriously make the gas pedal go down....

Ditto. And damn them for releasing that god-awful Beverly Hills song. Of all the Weezer songs to get major radio play that has got to be the worst.

I had a slightly different mix of that song a few years ago I misplaced, that had a little more Moog in it. It's worth hunting down.

Speaking of moog, how about that first Rentals album? I loved the shit out of that one!!

I listen to that fucker all the time. I put it in the CHUD 1000 Must-Haves thread. I was pleasantly surprised with that one. Seven More Minutes was hit or miss though . I think my all time fave tune is California. If you don't have it, PM and I'll forward it along.

I started to hate it even more when I realized it sounds so much like Steve Miller's already shitty "The Joker".

Saw a reunion concert with them and Ozma last year and the Rentals put on one hell of a show.

Mykle and Carli was actually written *before* they died. I used to have a video of Rivers playing a solo electric version of that song at their memorial concert. Heartbreaking.

And "You Gave Your Love..." isn't a remix...it was actually was recorded twice; once during Blue sessions and once during Pinkerton sessions.

I used to be an obsessive Weezer fan...I was even on the message board Rivers would post on around the time of Maladroit. I think I probably have everything they've ever done (some really random demos and things) that's ever been bootlegged on an external harddrive somewhere...

I remember seeing that on their DVD. And yeah, it was heartbreaking.

blue album and pinkerton tie for me, depending on my mood. the song writing is absolutely solid on both, pinkerton being a little more experimental then the pop traditionalism of the blue album. the green album was a bit of a disappointment, but i liked maladroit. I'm with dave b in that i never even picked up make believe due to how obnoxious the singles were.