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post #51 of 213
You missed Spielberg documentary to talk to a girl? You'll never make it as a nerd on these boards, boy.
post #52 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moltisanti
I just did a search through the listings and there are none scheduled over the next week. Can't tell if there will be any beyond that but I kinda doubt it. It'll end up on DVD at some point.
There's not another showing scheduled this month, which means it probably won't air again. But, yeah, it will probably end up on the Lincoln DVD in a couple of years.
post #53 of 213
I think the communication theme certainly applies to Jaws, and not just in the examples mentioned. The whole terror of the shark is that when we visit the deep sea we are entering an alien world where we have no hope of communication with things that, in that environment, can have much more power than us. The idea is ratcheted up a few notches by making the shark as clever and adaptive as man. It's interesting, my knowledge of Spielberg is somewhat limited, but I seem to remember (and the parts of the documentary I saw seemed to confirm) that War of the Worlds was, among other things, considered his big scary alien movie. The one with a cynical perspective in direct contrast to stuff like Close Encounters and E.T. But isn't that actually Jaws?
post #54 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~
I'm ripping a copy to my computer tonight. I can send it to you when I'm done if you want.
That'd be excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobClark
You missed Spielberg documentary to talk to a girl? You'll never make it as a nerd on these boards, boy.
I know, I'm ashamed.
post #55 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
That'd be excellent.
I don't have any DL DVDs, will a QT file on a regular DVD be cool?
post #56 of 213
That should be fine. Do you need my address again or do you still have the PM I sent before?
post #57 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll
That should be fine. Do you need my address again or do you still have the PM I sent before?
Got it.
post #58 of 213
I never understood why everybody thought AI's ending was downbeat. Since David wakes up in a world where mankind is totally fucking extinct.

That said, I rather liked the ending even though it maybe was a little much.

Either way, it sure was the most expensive TOOL video ever made.
post #59 of 213
That's an appalling username. I'm appalled.
post #60 of 213
Well, not everybody can be FREEROBOTSEX... sniffle.
post #61 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by GET AIDS NOW!
I never understood why everybody thought AI's ending was downbeat.
Doesn't he die in a fantasy, thinking he's happy, but it's all simulated? I thought that was kind of depressing. It was appropriate for the film, but still depressing.
post #62 of 213
Just watched it, thought it was good, but not great. I think the Scorcese one was better, if only because I was less informed on his work than Spielberg's.

Can't believe no one here has mentioned Spielberg talking about the Polish poster of Duel looking like the one for Jaws - having teeth & eating the car. Bless you, CHUD, for introducing me to Polish posters.

EDIT: Ha! Here's the posters - really similar to each other, aren't they?

post #63 of 213
It's hard to tell them apart.
post #64 of 213
Thread Starter 
The fact that it was all done in continuity is impressive. I liked the point he made about the final battle being as grand in his eyes as the D-Day invasion because of the connection you have with the characters at that point in the film.
post #65 of 213
Band of Brothers nullified Saving Private Ryan for me for good, is all I have to say about that. Considering they talked about The Terminal I am surprised Catch Me If You Can was skipped. The part that hit me the hardest was the praise for Williams work on E.T. Something along the lines of " ILM and I can make it seem like they fly, but Johnny's music makes it really happen".
post #66 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpel007
The part that hit me the hardest was the praise for Williams work on E.T. Something along the lines of " ILM and I can make it seem like they fly, but Johnny's music makes it really happen".
I remember Lucas praising Williams during his AFI acceptance speech (IIRC) saying something along the lines of "the films (SW) would never have been remotely successful if it weren't for John Williams' music".

I can't remember the quote verbatim, but the sincerity of it really struck Williams pretty hard as I remember. He seemed to well up a little...
post #67 of 213
Maybe he's just gotten really good at this "aw shucks" nerd persona, but it felt like he remembered every person who ever worked for him. Given his success and the business in which he made his fortune, it'd be easy for him to come off as a self-assured asshole with a bit of charm. Instead, though, it felt like he was still baffled by his success after nearly 40 years in the business. I think some of our newer directors could learn a thing or two about class from this guy.
post #68 of 213
Love that Spielberg. But The Terminal is just too damn long. I can't handle that much time in an airport, even in a movie. About, A.I., I agree with Spielberg that the end was the right choice, but cosmetically, I think it's one of the times were John Williams was maybe wrong for the scene. The music is just too...pretty, considering what is happening. It sort of gave the appearance of schmaltz where there really wasn't.(David's mother never really loved him, and now he's dead along with the rest of mankind. Not schmaltzy.)
post #69 of 213
When AI was long in development as a Kubrick project, I always imagined than an Aphex Twin soundtrack would compliment the visuals and overall themes of the film.

Especially any track from Selected Ambient Works 85-92
post #70 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by stump
Doesn't he die in a fantasy, thinking he's happy, but it's all simulated? I thought that was kind of depressing. It was appropriate for the film, but still depressing.
You're right. I meant to convey why people DIDN'T think it was downbeat.
post #71 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormin
The second most humbling experience was watching this documentary and hearing Spielberg say that he didn't do any storyboarding on Saving Private Ryan at all, shot it entirely in continuity, and essentially made up the shots as he went along, especially D-Day. That has to be the greatest demonstration of raw filmmaking skill ever, seriously.
He didn't shoot the D-Day invasion. It was John Milius.

Spielberg will never admit that, of course, but it'll be interesting to hear what his friends and co-workers have to say once he's passed on.
post #72 of 213
No, Milius wrote it didn't he?

Nothing Milius has directed could ever lead you to believe that he could handle something on that scale. Oh and there's the all the behind the scenes pics of Spielberg shooting the scene...
post #73 of 213
I would never, ever doubt Milius's expertise in outlining and directing big-scale action scenes. Even THE ROUGH RIDERS, confined to a television frame and budget, was just bursting at the seams.

And it's going to take a lot more than a few photographs of Spielberg sitting behind a camera or pointing at people to convince me he was actually the head honcho for this sequence.
post #74 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.P. Collier
And it's going to take a lot more than a few photographs of Spielberg sitting behind a camera or pointing at people to convince me he was actually the head honcho for this sequence.
You're charging that a director of Spielberg's caliber not only isn't capable of filming the D-Day sequence, but that he's lied all these years and fraudulently claimed that he did. The burden of proof is on you to prove your conspiracy, not on anyone else to prove the obvious.

What in Spielberg's career leads you to believe he wasn't capable of filming the D-Day sequence? He's got more experience with mammoth-sized productions than anyone this side of David Lean.
post #75 of 213
So do you have any proof of this claim, or is this pure Milius fan-worship we're looking at here?

Because I've read interviews with Milius about his involvement, and he never even comes close to making that assertion.
post #76 of 213
This could only be silly rumors, but I heard that Milius's involvement with "Private Ryan" was limited to script as - frankly - he wasn't THAT big a fan of the project and thereby much of the rewriting went to Darabont (hence: that HUGE framed SPR poster in Darabont's office autographed by Spielberg/Hanks thanking him for his long labor on the thing, though he didn't get a writing credit).

On top of that, there was a story that went that Milius and Oliver Stone attended the premiere of SPR and kind of sat in the backrow half-cackling at what they considered the "schmaltziness" of Spielberg's "Cap'n John" movie.

Again, these may just absolute bullshit as many Milius stories are often made to fit with his larger-than-life persona (and, in the case of Milius, there's almost not a single story that seems outside of the realm of possibility), but it's "what I heard."
post #77 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.P. Collier
I would never, ever doubt Milius's expertise in outlining and directing big-scale action scenes. Even THE ROUGH RIDERS, confined to a television frame and budget, was just bursting at the seams.

And it's going to take a lot more than a few photographs of Spielberg sitting behind a camera or pointing at people to convince me he was actually the head honcho for this sequence.
I'm sorry. Red Dawn may be the shit but you're not making a lick of sense here.
post #78 of 213
And I've seen Rough Riders. It's well-staged, especially considering the TV budget, but it's nowhere near the feat that SPR is. Milius is far too concerned with showing off his knowledge of strategy and tactics to evoke the chaos that the Normandy scene achieves.
post #79 of 213
Both battle scenes reek Spielberg. The seeds of that kind of pure visual/lyrical narrative propulsion/momentum can be felt as far back as Jaws or even during the attack scenes from War of the Worlds (Didn't Kael describe Jaws' sequences as Eisenstein unbridled?). The feel of those Ryan sequences are so unique and specific to Spielberg (I really believe that if you don't get that, you don't get Spielberg) that it actually conveys "war" as just as much an unseen beast/character to fear, as the shark attacks did for the leviathan in Jaws. Hell, just study the liquidation of the ghetto sequence in Schindler's List for christ sakes. Any film scholar could have a field day comparing their signature shit.

SPR battle scenes = Pure Spielberg.


Milius incapable of that kind of virtuosity = FACT
post #80 of 213
The Milius story was passed on to me by someone who worked on the film. "Bullshit or not?" as Henry Silva would say...well, you decide. Although I'm not particularly close to the person I can't see any reason why they'd put one over on me. Obviously, that's no proof, and I'm not going to lead you guys around in circles with the claim that I have any. But I certainly believe the story, and suspect that what actually happened was Spielberg invited Milius to the set for some advice and assistance (perhaps second unit, as David Koepp did on THE LOST WORLD before ghosting a significant portion of that film), and ended up taking the reins for at least part of the D-Day invasion. It could happen. It has happened, even with A-list directors (off the top of my head, Terry Gilliam allowing Michele Soavi to direct a scene for THE BROTHERS GRIMM, which Gilliam admits to on his commentary).

I'm not calling Spielberg a liar and a prick, but I will say that some of his behavior in the past has been dickish, to say the least (go back and read about his irresponsible, utterly chickenshit role during the Vic Morrow/child actor tragedy on TWILIGHT ZONE). And from what I can glean of interviews with the man and people who worked with/for him, I suspect that he's deeply insecure. He's not going to admit to something like that, and I imagine Milius, a close friend, would respect his wishes and keep silent.
post #81 of 213
But what makes you think he couldn't do it ?
Was the Normandy sequence that much harder than the Indy action scenes ?
post #82 of 213
And of course, Tom Hanks, Tom Sizemore, Giovanni Ribisi, Vin Diesel, Adam Goldberg, Ed Burns, Barry Pepper, Jeremy Davies, Janusz Kaminski, the few hundred extras, the sound guys, the PAs, the set decorators and the grips have all kept this quiet for nine years, despite the massive financial gain they'd likely make from coming forth with such a story.

And Milius is so happy with where his career is right now, he'd rather keep quiet the fact that he helped Spielberg win an Oscar.

Let. It. GO.
post #83 of 213
Why is a Spielberg a chickenshit regarding the Vic Morrow accident? That was almost entirely Landis' fault, and he got raked over the coals for it.

And yes, other directors come in and do uncredited work on movies all the time. John Ford did a good deal of second unit direction on John Wayne's The Alamo and even tried to take over the film until Wayne told him to butt out. Bryan Singer and Frank Darabont both did a day's directing on King Kong because Jackson was too exauhsted to keep going and needed a breather. But these are small potatos oppossed to mounting what has got to be the most elaborate, most in-your-face depection of WWII combat ever committed to film. That takes months of planning--maybe not storyboards, as Spielberg noted, but blocking, setting up those charges to be going off everywhere, getting the squibs in place, not to mention the fact that while filming the Normandy sequence, Spielberg would often to long, uninterrupted takes with multiple cameramen scattered throughout the battle, so technically there was a LOT of shit going on all at once, and someone had to be the ringleader. Now, look at Milus' filmography and look at Spielberg's. Who's shown themselves since almost day one to be the master of big, elaborate set pieces? Shit, Duel is a 90-minute set piece. And while I love Conan and dig Red Dawn, they're not exactly popping with the kind of electric charge Spielberg gives his action scenes.

Also: hearing this from "someone who worked on the film" is worthless unless you're talking about an assistant director or the like, or higher. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that crew people talk shit all the time, and it's also real easy for a second-hand rumor to spread its way into supposed fact. Milus may have visited the set, maybe even piped up a suggestion or two while talking with his old friend, and that trickled down and snowballed into "Milus is calling the shots."

You're making a lot of horseshit into something it's not, and letting your own narrow-minded assumptions about the man's personality to justify you buying into it.
post #84 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark
Milus may have visited the set, maybe even piped up a suggestion or two while talking with his old friend, and that trickled down and snowballed into "Milus is calling the shots."
Milius claims that he suggested that Spielberg go heavy on the handheld. That's a level of involvement that I would believe.
post #85 of 213
I could buy that too. That sort of thing happens all the time between directors, especially friends. But it hardly means Spielberg's a prick or insecure and that Milus is an unhearlded genius.
post #86 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark
Now, look at Milus' filmography and look at Spielberg's. Who's shown themselves since almost day one to be the master of big, elaborate set pieces?
And just look at the evacuation scene in Close Encounters, the riot in 1941, the Tanis dig in Raiders, the Warsaw ghetto in Schindler's -- the man knows how to shoot large-scale scenes with tons of extras.
post #87 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.P. Collier
I'm not calling Spielberg a liar and a prick, but I will say that some of his behavior in the past has been dickish, to say the least (go back and read about his irresponsible, utterly chickenshit role during the Vic Morrow/child actor tragedy on TWILIGHT ZONE).
As stated above, that was almost entirely Landis' fault, and from what I'VE read, all Spielberg did was distance himself as much as he could from the entire mess.
post #88 of 213
Yeah, both the books written about the Twilight Zone movie just have Spielberg distancing himself from the whole thing (Which, lets face it, is what he would've been advised to do). He stopped talking to Landis and scrapped his original plan to make 'The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street' to go and make 'Kick The Can' instead.

I did hear that Koepp ghost-directed a fair chunk of 'The Lost World' though, mainly because Spielberg just wanted to shoot the action scenes. But I don't know how much truth is in that.

And I find it funny that Oliver Stone would laugh at 'Saving Private Ryan' given that he would go onto make the far far worse twin towers film.
post #89 of 213
The Milius interview I read said that he and Stone were laughing about Tom Hanks' plan to hold the bridge.

http://movies.ign.com/articles/401/401150p6.html

Quote:
IGNFF: What other plot holes did you see?

MILIUS: Well the other thing that's a big hole that I heard Colin Powell commented on when he looked at it – at the end when that battle is taking place, he said, "Blow the bridge and leave, fellas."

IGNFF: Can't get more succinct than that.

MILIUS: Yeah, and as Oliver (Stone) told me – he said that Tom Hanks had told him, "This is the decent thing to do, to stay and hold this bridge." He (Stone) said, "I wouldn't have waited until he turned his back and got into the jungle to frag him – I'd have just shot him right there."

IGNFF: The decent thing to do.

MILIUS: He said part of it was he'd have shot him because he was Tom Hanks. I think Oliver just would like to shoot Tom Hanks anyway, just to see which way he'd fall. I think that the other thing was the ridiculousness of it – they're holding this bridge against the f***ing Panzer regiment, or something? I mean, these guys have M1s. They've got rifles. They're going to hold this bridge against the Panzer regiment? That's just nuts.
post #90 of 213
So by that logic, everyone should have just gotten back on the landing boats at Normandy.
post #91 of 213
Despite this, the long-whispered rumor that SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE is a way, way better movie than SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is still very much true.
post #92 of 213
I love the responses whenever I drop the Milius rumor into a Spielberg discussion. Aside from those in this thread, I just saw a very funny message from Sean Bateman (CHUD's Bateman, that is) on my user account.

Keep 'em coming.
post #93 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson
So by that logic, everyone should have just gotten back on the landing boats at Normandy.
Stone was referring to Vietnam. A whole different ball game.
post #94 of 213
Is it just me, or would everyone else watch an Odd Couple-esque TV show about John Milius and Oliver Stone?
post #95 of 213
EDIT: Whoops. Wrong thread.
post #96 of 213
At the most, Milius script-doctored Saving Private Ryan. There was an interview awhile back (maybe Empire Magazine?) where Milius admitted to having re-written quiet a number of Spielberg's films over the years. But when pressed for more details, he refused to say which films and how big an impact he had on said material.
post #97 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.P. Collier
I love the responses whenever I drop the Milius rumor into a Spielberg discussion. Aside from those in this thread, I just saw a very funny message from Sean Bateman (CHUD's Bateman, that is) on my user account.

Keep 'em coming.
Okay. Unless your friend was one of the heads of department, Spielberg's personal assistant or Spielberg himself then his story is suspect. Why? Go visit a set sometime. The only people who deal with a director are those people plus the producers. Grip electrics, set dec, greens, stunts etc. rarely, if ever, deal with the director or even see what the director is doing. The have HoDs who relay the orders down the line. That line is particularly big if you are shooting a multicamera, multi-stunt endeavor like the opening of Saving Private Ryan.

Now I'm not saying it's impossible that your friend knew who was really shooting the movie but with the kind of logistics that are involved in a scene like that it's suspect. He likely had his own job to do and was unaware as to what other departments were doing let alone the director. That is even if he could spot where the director was from his vantage point...which was likely a helluva far way away from video village.
post #98 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt M
Is it just me, or would everyone else watch an Odd Couple-esque TV show about John Milius and Oliver Stone?
Totes. With 'special guest star' Paul Schrader as Mr. Roeper!
post #99 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.P. Collier
The Milius story was passed on to me by someone who worked on the film. "Bullshit or not?" as Henry Silva would say...well, you decide.
Please, fellas, pay no attention to this man...there are, what 200 people on a Hollywood set at any given time? And even more on an extras-laden, 800 lb. gorilla of a movie like Private Ryan?

And Collier's buddy is the only person who saw Spielberg go crying to John Big Wednesday Millius that he couldn't work the camera for the most important scene in the movie? Please...this story's not just improbable, its a total lie.
post #100 of 213
Love the Beard, but this doc was a fucking bore. 90 minutes to hear the same stories we've heard a million times before. "The shark broke down so many times." Shocker.
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