Teenagers gang rape woman and ...

They'll plead temporary insanity and spend a few months in a juvenile correctional facility and then get out. They're records will be wiped clean when they turn 18 (b.s.). Nothing much will come of this.

I read about this the other day. Truly one of the most horrible stories I've heard in awhile.

That's what the son said.

A few more details in this article:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...SIDE_0708.html


Ugh.

God damn, that's one of the worst, most vile things I've ever heard.

I can actually joke about an entire family dying in a pool of shit, but somehow I cannot muster up the will today for this particular story, it makes me feel ill. This is like two lifetimes of therapy for the victims here.

This story is so fucked that even horrid can't make a pun about it. I'm shocked.

I really wonder what the fuck is up with kids today. I mean really.

There really is no humor to be found in this one. Sad story caused by some really sad excuses for human beings.

My first thought after reading this story was how it was even possible for the son to get hard enough to have sex with his mom. I'm going to hell.

Maybe she's hot?

I always resented my parents because when I got in trouble outside the house they always assumed it was my fault. No trial, just assumed.

I read that and I wish there were more like them. The parents of these bastards piss me off almost as much as their kids do. Contrary to popular fiction, there are very few Damiens in the world. If your child is a monster, you helped make that happen. Nice job.

This is a nauseating story. Hope they catch them all and throw the book at them until their brains pop out.

If there ever was a case for execution without a trial then this is it. Why waste time going through the flawed legal system only to have these monsters get out by the time they're 18? I think kids are getting more and more violent and deviant not because of videogames or movies like so many others say but because this country and it's legal system treats them like fragile creatures incapable of evil thought. All these kids know that they can commit any crime short of murder and get out by 18 as long as they play the 'innocent'. When kids know that no reprisal is possible then they do what they want. Take for example the trash-talking racist 10yr olds on XBox Live.

When are people going to realize that there are some kids who know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it? Some kids are just natural-born assholes regardless of upbringing or enviroment. I know I'm being harsh but how many more innocent people have to suffer at the hands of these little bastards? The vermin who did this knew exactly what they were doing. Masks, condoms and ammonia to clean up the crime scene. It was planned and carried out. Either fix the legal system, which isn't going to happen, or get rid of these disgusting animals forever. Before they decide to do this again.

Gross, but valid. I don't see how it would be physically possible.

I'm as outraged as anyone, but this just doesn't scan. If kids are "natural-born assholes regardless of upbringing or environment," then there's not a very good argument to be made that "kids are getting more and more violent and deviant," unless you believe that there's some "violence" gene that's becoming more and more prevalent in mankind.

Barring that possibility (which seems pretty unlikely), it's one or the other - either kids have always been about as violent as they've always been or that they're getting more violent due to cultural/environmental factors. I think Bayouradio's right in that, whether all participants were born diagnosable sociopaths or not (pretty unlikely, I'd guess), their parents have some responsibility for allowing them to get to the point where this behavior is even imagined, much less thought of as acceptable.

Regardless, while this case may be one of the more compelling arguments for the death penalty from an emotional standpoint, emotional standpoints do not provide a very sturdy basis for lawmaking.

Yeah, that's how that12 kid who choked his sister got tried as an adult if my memory is right. I'm also sure that if the crimes are serious enough, they can be tried as an adult, though I may be wrong.

For the record, there isn't.

No offense, but I don't think you know much about the legal system. Sure, the legal system is flawed but assuming that these people will be released when they turn 18 is simply ludicrous. You can bet your last cent that they'll be tried as adults, and even if they get a deal for turning in the rest and their especially young, they'll probably still be looking at a decade's worth of time on the short end.

I don't usually do this, but read the damn story, people. It says in black-and-white that they'll be charged as adults. This isn't paintballing some cars.

Why read the story when we have the most reactionary bits of talk radio wisdom about the broken legal system to fall back on?

So, if they get convicted will they go directly to prison, and not juvenile hall? 'cause that'd about serve them right.

You know, it's the activist judges and their liberal rulings that cause problems like this anyways.

For a 12 year old? Yeah, it's possible. That's around the time boys' hormones start sprouting. HOW he got hard, is the odd part. Was he aroused? Or did they work it out of him?

It's disgusting to think of, I know that for sure.

Anyway, it adds further to my case against the shit-hole that is the state of Florida.

My first post comes off as reactionary because that's what it is. I am just sick and tired of crimes being committed by criminals who, 80-90% of the time, don't get the proper punishment. If these kids are tried as adults, and I doubt they will in the end, they won't get any serious punishment. Ten years is not enough. The victims have to continue for the rest of their lives carrying this trauma with them. The guilty parties serve their sentences and go on about their lives as if nothing happened. Some of you many say that they'll have a criminal record and that will make their lives tougher but do you really think they care?

Ten or twenty years is not enough. They'll be in their mid-30's if they serve twenty. Still plenty of time and energy to commit more crimes and create more victims. That is why I think people like these should just be gotten rid of and not be sent off to jail and waste tax-payers money. They've proven their worth in the world and shouldn't take up any of our time and energy.

Stories like these just bring up too many bad memories for me. I had two relatives who were murdered and whose killers got away with it. A cousin who was a police officer and whose murderer was never caught and an uncle whose murderers were only charged with assault. Granted, this was in Colombia and not the U.S. but I think that the argument for criminals getting away with their crimes thanks to a horrible legal system is still valid.

Emotion should not be brought into cases where the only evidence is circumstantial and not physical but this case has physical evidence and confessions.

I'm sorry you've had so much murder in your life (really, that's amazing), and that you don't feel that justice was served. But I think that your situation makes you exactly the wrong person to judge such things. You can't help but bring all of that baggage into any even remotely similar scenario. But for now I'll just say to wait for the legal system to actually free these people before condemning it for doing so. There's nothing except general pessism to suggest that they'll see the streets again any time remotely soon.

On another note, this afternoon I witnessed the arraignment of a 19 year old kid that got me thinking about how for a someone under 20, there really isn't such a thing as a 15 or 20 year sentence. This kid was no saint and certainly no genius; he got busted with drugs and guns no less than 3 times in a little over a year, then a couple days ago shot at an acquaintance in a meth-stupor because he thought the guy was stealing his own car. Now due to federal mandatory sentencing guidelines (enacted to appease the people who assume that the teens in this case will walk), he's looking at 15 years minimum on the gun charges alone. Now, this guy should in no way be free, he's downright dangerous. But he's also a stupid fucking kid whose life is over before it really started. It's not like he's going to do 20 years in a federal penitentary, come out at the ripe old age of 40 with no real education or work experience, and suddenly start living a productive life. He'll be back in jail in no time flat. The judge has to, effectively, give him a life sentence.

My point is that 10 or 20 years is in no way a "light" sentence, especially for a teenager. Most of the time, it's basically life-ending.

This VERY broadly held assumption is a large part of the reason that we have so few valid and useful facilities for rehabilitation rather than punishment.

Exactly. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be using this most extreme example of teenage crime to formulate the rules that we will apply to the 99.99% of cases that are far less heinous is the wrong approach.

One would fucking hope so. If you don't get life for this, I don't know what we're reserving it for.

Indeed. This is a crime of inspired depravity, and the punishment shouldn't treat it as though it were anything other than purely barbaric.

On the same token, though, I'm sure this will inspire quite a few to advocate the death penalty for the teens, which is just dumb. If that were a possibility, then the victims here would be dead rather than scarred for life.

You know, it's funny, but I can't recall ever hearing any real discussion of the death penalty in law school. Not in crim, and not in remedies. I'm sure there was some seminar offered, but I didn't ever get to it. So, with the caveat that I've never given it much thought, I'm not sure I can fathom the philosophy behind the death penalty. To extend it to teenage offenders, even ones as egregious as this, strikes me as saying "Well, we give up on rehabilitation as a goal. Time to just kill the bad guys."

Sounds like something out of 'A Clockwork Orange', it's bad enough that they raped the woman but to then force her son to have sex with her, that's some shit which requires a charlie bronson.

I realize their lives are now fucked, I hope their trip to prison is a complete descent into hell, I have a feeling they'll have a touch of the redass for awhile.

Well, the philosophy behind the death penalty is one thing. Personally, I'm against it's so irrevocable and the system is so prone to error (a scary number of death row inmates have been freed by DNA evidence in recent years). Conceptually, though, I don't see any huge difference from the attitude that says "you're so bad, we're going to lock you in a hole until you die of old age," and the one that says "you're so bad, we're going to have you put to sleep."

That's beside the very simple point I was making, however, which is that you just can't have capital punishment for non-homicidal crimes. If you do, then it just encourages anyone performing those crimes to go ahead and snuff the victims and any other witnesses. They can't kill you twice, right? And if there's no one left to testify, then maybe they won't even be able to do it once. (See: the opening heist of Heat.)

Yeah, a buddy of mine worked for the Innocence Project, and their statistics are eye-opening.

As for the incentive to kill the victim, I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure that sort of information about the justice system actually reaches criminals (or the public at large, really). I think there's just as much incentive to kill people so there aren't witnesses in the first place, without the looming spectre of the death penalty. Then again, I have nothing to back that up, so it's all conjecture.

I'm really not convinced that people who commit heinous crimes pause whilst raping/murdering/torturing and think, "Okay, now, if I stop here, I'll get 30 years, but, if I keep going, they'll hang me. What to do, what to do..."

For a myriad of reasons (among them said Innocence Project stats), I'm against the death penalty. But I have no idea what should be done with monsters like these boys.

Criminals* almost always know the basic sentences for the kinds of crimes they commit, mostly because they know how long various acquaintances/partners/family members have been put away for. At the very least, they know what's enough to get you life or the death penalty (if it's a possibility in their state). Specifically in this case, the fact that they were pouring bleach on the victims in (apparently) an attempt to muck up any DNA evidence leads me to believe that if the death penalty was a possibility for home invasion/sexual assault in FL, they would've killed the victims. They obviously stopped to think about possible repercussions before/during the attack.

*I'm talking the type that regularly engages in felonious activity, not pot-smokin teenagers or heat of passion types.

I figure they were pouring bleach on the people because they're sick fucks and got pleasure out of torturing them. If THIS is true then the temp. insane plea will come in.

You think? I think it's just the opposite. I forget what constitutes insanity, but I'm pretty sure that the presence of mind to realize (1) that you were committing a crime, (2) that you were leaving evidence of the crime, and (3) you needed a method to remove that evidence is exactly opposed to what is legally considered insanity.

Right, but most of the insanity cases I recall reading are things like "The dog told me Satan was coming to my back door and the only way to stop him was to shoot my daughter". I know there are several different tests, but I think demonstrably lucid consideration of how to exculpate yourself works against all of them.

Agreed.

I don't think this demonstrates that, in the moment, they cared about the distinction between sentences for murder and sentences for rape, assault, etc., though. It just means that they didn't want to get caught. Killing the victims wouldn't have eliminated evidence - bleach, at least to their fucked-up troglodyte minds, would. I can't imagine that, if you're this far removed from general human levels of acceptability, you'd be thinking that strategically in the moment.

http://chud.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102427


and...

and...

it's America. Defense attorneys are paid solely on how much bullshit they can spew and make people believe said shit is actually a pile of fresh smelling roses.

But, I'm not ruling out it was because they wanted to destroy evidence. I guess we'll have to wait and see.