RED DAWN - Collector's Edition

Avenge me, boys...........AVENGE ME!

Sounds good. Maybe they'll release that Amerika miniseries too.

Dude, this and Roadhouse (which I saw for the first time last night) should be required viewing for everyone. Swazye gone crazy!

"We live here!"

So this is not called Red Dawn - Wolverines! Edition? How did they let that slide?

I'm thinking maybe the Fox legal department would have had something to say.

There is a God.

I just watched this gem about a month ago, and though it didn't traumatize me as much as it did when I was a WW III fearing 10 year old, the thing still packs some existential punch.

The new DVD cover art is far superior to the previous MGM one-disc and the DVD revisit is full of stuff the first was missing, but is amazingly surprisingly devoid of a standard 21st century 5.1 audio remix. The audio remains the crappy stereo mix from a decade gone by, meaning the transfer is most likely the same as the '98 version as well.

Yay for the extras-laden re-release. Boo for the 1998 status quo.

Red Yawn.

Touche, sir. Kind of.

I love Red Dawn, but it could've been so much better.

Always nice to see William Smith, though.

There are no words in the English language sufficient to express how much I fail to understand why anybody enjoys this movie on any level whatsoever. It is truly terrible. Really. Just really, really incredibly bad.

I'm just guessing here, but probably the people who enjoy it most are people who lived through the cold war where WWIII was plausible. Yeah, the idea that the US will be invaded and taken over is pretty silly, but for us in the Cold War generation, it was a omnipresent reality.

"WOLVERINES!!!!"

Needed more Boothe.

How can this DVD not have a commentary? Such a waste!

Maybe I'm wrong, but I remember it being one of the first PG-13 movies that came out - so there was certain mystique surrounding it when it arrived in theaters. Plus, it's just fucking weird. But Powers Boothe gave a great performance in it. So did Harry Dean Stanton in his brief scene. And, as a kid, I was certainly excited to see those kids try to avenge their taken town. C. Thomas' transformation from wimp to badass by drinking deer blood, pairing Sheen and Swayze as best bud brothers, Lea Thompson.

I can't understand the people that don't love it.

Red Dawn may be one of the most Reagen-era-est movies ever made. Still, having said that, it's kind of a hoot for the first hour. After Powers Booth is killed, the film goes over a cliff, but I enjoyed it up until then.

Maybe it's because I just saw it again recently, but I'm gonna say INVASION U.S.A. holds that crown.

Here's some useless IMDB trivia. RED DAWN was the first film released as PG-13, but THE FLAMINGO KID was the first to receive the rating from the MPAA.

I'm 43. Believe me, I lived through the cold war. And the idea that the US would be invaded and conquered in a land war was never an omnipresent reality. Nuclear attack was an omnipresent reality. One look at the size of the United States on a world map should be enough to demonstrate why the premise of the film is ludicrous.

Red Dawn is fantasy, as much as Lord of the Rings is fantasy. It's just right wing jingoistic patriot fantasy instead of wizards and elves fantasy. Anybody who fooled themselves that anything remotely like it could actually happen probably had Ronald Reagan bedsheets.

True, they are cut from the same ridiculous cloth.

Truer words were never spoken - but parts of it are entertaining.

That was written poorly. What I meant was, the "omnipresent reality" was beaten over our heads right-wing nutjobs; at least where I lived (Texas...which explains a few things).

And yes, it is right-wing jingoistic trash, but that's why I like it so much. It gives a great insight to a certain mindset of that era.

Cold War paranoia was the lifeblood of the action movie industry for a good many years. Red Dawn's scenario may not be especially plausible (though certainly more so than Invasion USA's), but it certainly is compelling. The execution somewhat less so.

Also, cool score.

The score I'll give you. A little Poledouris embiggens even the worst movie.

This movie worked back in the day because it was how we all thought we'd act if we were in the same situation. You know, instead of hiding under our beds pissing ourselves like we really would have.

I just loved the idea that tiny Cuba supplied the manpower that made a land invasion of the US possible.

Not to sound like a staunch defender of the film, but I think there was a Communist revolution in Mexico, and that's where the bulk of the land troops came from (plus Russia being able to use Mexico as a base of operations).

I saw this paired with "Wargames" at a drive-in double feature.

I thought it was cool in my teens, but it didn't hold up as I got older.

I missed Red Dawn for some reason in my youth, still have never seen it. I do remember some controversy about it, something like the kids at school talking about it in hushed tones. I have it on my Netflix list and was going to watch it soon, but Greg's making me re-think that.

Hey, if nothing else, it makes you able to argue with its staunch defender with some authority. And it does have some staunch defenders.
Maybe that's my problem. I never had any illusions that I'd do anything but hide under my bed pissing myself.

I recently watched the movie for the first time and I really enjoyed it. First, as an exciting movie with a somewhat untraditional action narrative. Second, because its basically a homegrown Al-Qaeda propaganda piece. The irony is deafening. Seriously, this is the best argument put forward by a major studio movie for mounting terrorist operations against American troops I've ever seen. Because "we live here" indeed.

That's a great take. I'm sure it isn't one John Milius would agree with, but if the shoe fits...

Does it?

Of course it does. Native people fighting back against the occupying forces? How does it not fit?

Plus the "good guys" hide out in the mountains, bomb buildings, wait to ambush tanks as they travel on small roads, have relatives ill-treated in prison camps, etc. The comparison can easily be made.

I guess it comes down to how narrowly or broadly one defines terrorism. Milius is more likely to have had George Washington's Colonials in mind than Hezbollah.

Well, the comparison has been made between the Revolutionary War and terrorism before. Right wingers hate it when you do that, but there's some truth to it. And besides, the people fighting the US military in Iraq don't call themselves terrorists. Whether one is a terrorist or a freedom fighter isn't a matter of definition; it's a matter of which side you ask. I'm sure if you'd asked King George, he'd have happily called the Americans terrorists.

IIRC Milius refers to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan as the inspiration for the story. It just happens to be set in America.

Great thread. I agree with Matchstick.

That being said I also totally understand where Greg is coming from. Besides Boothe, badass C. Thomas, Stanton, William Smith, Ben Johnson and The Swayze there is a great and underrated performance from Ron O'Neal.

In fact outside of its flimsy premise i'd say its O'Neal's arc like the Wolverines that keeps this film afloat. Whether we talk about its influences (Afganistan, Revolutionary War, Iraq, Cold War fears) or its effect i'd say this movie is pretty entertaining on multiple levels and can make the viewer think about what it might be like to be a guerrilla fighter. How is that a bad thing?

Sure it has some patriotic jingo to it but Milius doesn't have Charlie Sheen or Swayze on a rock at the end chomping on a cigar. A movie well worth seeing in my humble.

I'll wait to see what people say about the sound and picture quality before I buy.

Also certainly a negative not to have a Milius commentary especially considering the times.

Good to see you, JD - been away for a while?

The film starts strong, the paratroopers landing behind the school is an eyecatcher, no matter what anyone says. But as much as I like Poledouris' work, it turns jingoistic halfway through the film, emphasizing the hilarity of the proceedings. I think it would've been better if they kept the downbeat nature of the first hour.

Yeah I moved Subo. Good to be back though and around such fine company.

As far as it turning jingoistic after the first hour well it would have been a little too depressing as a mainstream film if it hadn't.

Good points all. That being said, I've always looked upon Red Dawn as a semi-realistic view of what guerrilla warfare would look like in America. As someone said, yes, there would be quite a bit of people under the bed pissing their pants (understandably), but there would also be people who could mount a guerrilla war against the occupiers, and they're probably accurately depicted here. Though obviously played up for the movie.

What interests me is the actual logistics of what a real invasion would look like. How could any foreign power occupy America? New York City alone probably has more automatic weapons than the entire country of Madagascar, and lest we forget the 2nd Amendment loving people in the western half of the US. You know the type: they live on compounds, not in houses.

Anyway, it's good movie and nostalgic. I, for one, love the part where the Russian soldier picks up a gun from a dead man, who conveniently died underneath a truck bumper that had a "You can have my gun, after you pry it from my cold, dead fingers" bumper sticker. That's about a subtle as being raped in the prison shower.

Which really just ups the irony factor that much more.

When Greg David said he can't understand how anyone likes this movie, it almost blew my mind. This is a legitimately great 80s action film.

Exhibit A.1. is "nostalgia," of course, but it is well-made escapist fantasy that ranks right up there with Rambo.

What elevates it above THAT even are the nicely dark touches: the spectre of starving to death, collaborators in town, a traitor (and how said traitor is dealt with) and of course the "reality" of how a bunch of kids on horseback ultimately fare against a couple of soviet gunship helicopters.

The thing is, I can't shake the feeling that it wasn't really trying to be escapist fantasy or popcorn action spectacle. It gives off this vibe of having SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT TO SAY. I've always felt that it's far too full of its own self-importance, and far too self-congratulatory to be very entertaining. Why should I have a good time when it so clearly isn't?

Obviously, you guys don't see it that way. But I really don't think Milius felt that he was making a fun film, which to me, makes it seem like you're all enjoying it on a somewhat ironic level.

The thing is, I can't shake the feeling that it wasn't really trying to be escapist fantasy or popcorn action spectacle. It gives off this vibe of having SOMETHING REALLY IMPORTANT TO SAY. I've always felt that it's far too full of its own self-importance, and far too self-congratulatory to be very entertaining. Why should I have a good time when it so clearly isn't?

Obviously, you guys don't see it that way. But I really don't think Milius felt that he was making a fun film, which to me, makes it seem like you're all enjoying it on a somewhat ironic level.

I was reading an old Milius interview yesterday (as part of the moronic debate we were having on the Spielberg on Spielberg thread), and here's what he has to say about his take on the material:

I was reading an old Milius interview yesterday (as part of the moronic debate we were having on the Spielberg on Spielberg thread), and here's what he has to say about his take on the material:

On a side note, I've read that Milius has a long association with UFC. He'd do a pretty good job with that flick.

On a side note, I've read that Milius has a long association with UFC. He'd do a pretty good job with that flick.