I went with Jeremy Smith to see “Rifftrax Live” tonight. He did a great interview with guys for Ain’t It Cool, and so he had an invite to attend. The Rifftraxers mocked Reefer Madness, which is a terrible movie but nice and short. They did some split screen so you could see the performers, and the material was solid, though the shorts they did were the highlight (one featured a woman doing laundry with gasoline. Seriously. Laundry with gasoline). As we sat down, I noticed an attractive woman attending alone. I was curious what she might be doing there, as the event at downtown Los Angeles was sparsely attended. Was she a superfan? My immediate response was that she had to either be super-cool or super-crazy (possibly a mixture). She might also have been a theater-hopper, or an event specialist. But it’s really not fair to judge her like that, because if the last two decades of pop culture have taught us anything, nerd culture is no longer just for the socially inept, and funny is funny.

ON THE IMPORTANCE OF CANON (not the studio)
There is a very obvious echo-chamber effect on the internet, hastened by the fact that a number of sites have a talkback function. Where message boards have trolls of varying shapes, sizes and acceptance, talkbacks are often populated by people or peoples unknown. And from talking with people who’ve written for Ain’t it Cool, often multiple comments come from the same person under various different pseudonyms. The illusion of such can create the idea for the reader that a lot of people feel the same way about things, when it’s hard to know who is exactly saying what. I believe Matt Zoller Sietz wrote something about what is lost when people have to register in that such anonymity, in that there’s a truth to such horribleness. People know it’s smart and important not to use the word nigger, or turns of phrases like “lezbo dyke bitch,” or “baby rapist” – anything that has been ordained by good taste to not be polite conversation. But anonymity can provide insight into – if not everyone – some people’s true feelings (at least those not afraid of having their ISP’s tracked). The written word is still the most frequent mode of communication on the internet, which makes things like sarcasm tricky, especially for sites that traffic in nerdery.
But the lopsidedness and freedom of such commentary makes it hard for authors on the internet to interact with its readership. As Devin – or most people who write for the internet can attest – talkbacks and message boards account for a small percentage of traffic. That’s not to denigrate anyone who responds, and I must say – as I have in the past – these articles tend to provoke interesting discussion, and I appreciate that. But I spent years writing for DVD sites that had no such functionality and I found that my feedback was mostly relegated to two things: copy corrections and strong feelings – either positive or negative. When you have thousands of readers, and you receive only a handful of emails for your work – as an editor would always say – you know you’re doing good work if that’s the case or else you’d hear about it more.
Which leads me to an article I read this week that asks a question it ends up side-stepping. Screen Rant wrote a piece entitled “Why do Critics Care if Audiences Hate the Movies They Like?” The author gets distracted by the very nature of the internet, which I think reveals a lot about the future of criticism. The author discusses more the nature of movie critics (or more to the point, the vaunted old guard) versus Movie Bloggers. I guess to that point, it wasn’t until the internet that critics could publicly – after a film didn’t open or perform – berate their audiences for not listening other than in the ocassional think pieces, or “mvies you might have missed” type columns. For the most part, the critics I’ve known don’t waste a lot of time on that stuff (and still don’t except in passing and often passive commentary), because if you see what is wll reviewed – other than the Pixar material – rarely does it jibe with the box office results. In that way I enjoy that Armond White likes to poke at Pixar as that cow is not sacred (even though his attacks are usually wrong-headed, I enjoy someone who wants to write contrarian pieces, though I prefer them when they aren’t done out of spite or simply to generate traffic. I don’t think there’s a lot of worth in an unchallenged opinion). Fans might freak out when their revered or hoped for franchise hits the shit (re: Serenity), but I think you see more apologists for musicians.
But this leads to an interesting crossroads we are at in pop culture. Cinema has always been the province of popular entertainment, so it has – at least in America – been skewed by popular successes. With literature and music (though music is also effected by this now), there has been a sense of the – for better or ill – purification of time. There are a handful of William Shakespeare’s contemporaries that English majors would be able to name, but there were more playwrights than that. The same goes with musicians, philosophers, etc. It’s the central joke/conceit of Amadeus. Of course not everything has been lost to time, but there is the material that has shaped our culture, and has resonated, and the material that is best left to scholars or to be lost forever.
The paradigm shift for cinema began with the creation of television, which gave greater province to the possibility to repeat things. With movies there were the films that were re-released, and then arthouses and revival houses,but after that you were out of luck. But the rise in re-running can also tied in to boomer culture, the rise of teenagers, and the industrial revolution if you want to (or hell, the printing press), but the point is that television could re-run movies and old TV shows. With record players, music could be owned and looked after. With video, television could be recorded and watched endlessly. And it’s interesting that you can watch – from the seventies into now – pop culture folding in on itself. Growing up in the eighties, I was inundated wih re-runs of I Love Lucy, Star Trek and The Brady Bunch. Three decades of pop culture favorites vying with reruns of the popular recent shows. As television exploded exponentially, the material it offered grew and expanded to the point of where we’re at now with Vampires Suck, which – in its way – encapsulates a generational gap. Airplane! is and was funny because it was funny first, but added a level by being familiar with the genre it was toying with, whereas Vampires Suck is predicated on and marketed to people with an inherent knowledge of the material. When I first saw Airplane, it didn’t matter that I hadn’t seen The Swarm or Airport, or The Towering Inferno. The Friedberg/Seltzer model is based on the immediate awareness of what is being satired, often paying homage to things no more or less than five years old, and often with the refernece being the joke. Because of the expansion of pop culture to such a degree that it is literally impossible to track everything, or be expected to be exposed to old or weird stuff, there’s no point in going after anything else but pop culture phenomenons.
Because of the high-brow nature of great literature and English majoring, there will always be a revered place in literature for books like A Confederacy of Dunces, and the works Tolstoy and Hemingway. For Plato and Nietzsche. And even though Stephen King is still a major figure in pop culture, I’m sure more professors teach Don Delillo. But pop culture art like cinema is hitting a place where what is available is not based on quality but often nostalgia for people that have been taught to indulge those desires. And because cinema is not treated by academia with as much seriousness, it doesn’t have the same purification process over the last eighty years or so, because of how cinema has become commodified. Unfortunately cinema has created both great art and great pop art, and those films need their champions, but easy availability to a library of material that in another generation would have been washed away is both amazing and confounding. To the level that – at least right now – Lassie and Herbie the Love Bug were huge successes but have not enjoyed the cultural resonance of – say – The Goonies. Cinema has relied on a mixture of critics and popular reaction for much of America’s greatest films (It’s a Wonderful Life was a bomb, says pop culture) and critics have often railed around stupid causes and self-importance. E.T. is surely the more important and etc. film than Gandhi. No one is right all the time and often were wrong at the time. But currently home video’s catalog titles are dominated by what is most marketable. There is good to this and bad to this. I’m happy to have Flash Gordon on Blu-ray, but in no way shape or form would I argue it belongs in the pantheon as more than an engaging footnote.
The problem is that studios have extended copyright laws to the point that they will release films that they know they can market, so what is available isn’t what has necessarily survived the test of time. There is no sense that Blu-ray or DVD showcase what has passed the weight of time as a film like Humanoids from the Deep is now available on both formats. But then also between all those formats, and digital means, there is a wide swath of films out there to be seen, in various – but not untenable – states of availability (that is to say, if you dig, you can find films that have never been released on video with the right tivoing skills, or collector friends). Much like television there is no filter but for those who seek it. But people will always seek a filter, and people will always want to explore the past. And there will always be the artists and films that disappoint in that canon, but it exists for a reason. There needs to be a shorthand for good.
And – to tie it up – the internet is a bubble of immediacy, and often has no sense of anything but that. With Scott Pilgrim there were some strange negative reactions and a backlash against that from some critics. If the internet existed then as it does now, what would happen to a film like Office Space? That film did little business, but does play to the majority of people who traffic in the online set. If Devin championed it, would there be a backlash? Would people be happy it came in eighth place? As Chud friend Evan Dickson noted, the film opened against October Sky and Jawbreaker. Who talks about those films now? That’s why box office is tricky business. The numbers are the numbers, and I write about them all the time, but – most of the time – they say very little about the films themselves, or what can stand the test of time.
HEY MISTER, YOU GOT A PREDICTION?-
There’s five new films this weekend. Vampires Suck is the only one that looks strongish, though Piranha 3-D might do some business. The Expendables is going to fall off, and Eat Pray is going to play.
1. Vampires Suck – $15.7 Million
2. The Expendables – $14 Million
3. Eat Pray Love – $13.7 Million
4. Piranha 3-D – $12.5 Million
5. Nanny McPhee: What the Fuck is the Sequel – $10 Million
The Switch misses, as does Lottery Ticket, though that could usurp Nanny McContractualobligation. Ticket is an urban movie, so likely they’ve sold it well to their target demo, who may turn out, and the film was likely done on the cheap. I could see a front loaded Vampires falling to either Stallone or Julia Roberts, but it’s the end of the summer season, so we could also see Inception or The Other Guys crack the top 5 section.





28 comments
I recall seeing the first one, enjoying it but then it got mostly lost amongst my memories of other slasher films – I could have told you it involved a toruing boat. What I couldn't have told you was the name of our slasher here – whereas I COULD have named Leslie Vernon of Behind then Mask, which slightly pre-dated this didn't it? Still, I guess that did have his name in the title. But I think I would have preferred a sequel to that. Anyway, ridiculous hyperbole notwithstanding, I'll enjoy catching up with this on rental one Saturday night.
So, did that chick try to get you to buy her a [insert beer brand X]? Is there truly any REALLY funny Rifftrax out there. The ones I've seen have been pretty poor. Is it another case of nostalgia for MST3K or is there a 100% guaranteed example of them at their best out there?
Is corn grass?
I'd like to fart in an echochamber.
Well done, Andre. The writing on here has been good lately; has Nick been passing out complimentary hooker coupons to y'all?
One person posing as several? That's unpossible! Anyway, I saw a few scenes from "Vampires Suck" at my…I mean PlanBFromOUTERSpace's theater, and aside from the obvious "make broad references to every mainstream film from the last 6 months"-type of anti-humor that the "Movie" team is known for, there also seems to be a lot of "Sit my 12-year old daughter in front of a TV for 6 hours with a notebook and incorporate anything she writes into the script" touches to it. I think I heard someone say "Witches of Waverly Place" somewhere. I'm pretty sure I'd have absolutely NO idea what that was if it wasn't for the DVD aisle at Wal Mart. Using the Friedberg/Seltzer model, I'm going to pitch a film where I watch Headline News all day, throw in dick and fart jokes, and then I'll call it "August 13, 2010 Movie". I think it has real sequel potential.
My head is starting to hurt after reading your poems. But it's a good hurt.
I'm just happy that I can now watch Black Orpheus on Blu-ray, then the last Rambo.
There was backlash against Scott Pilgrim because this site and many many others have been shoving it down our throat for the last 7 or 8 months. People dont like hard sells. I truly believe if this site and many others did not push the movie on their readers so hard there would be no backlash. It actually pretty simple and something you guys should consider in the future.
Having more and more difficulty following this rambling blog …
Andre, come on, man. I enjoy your articles, but you're honestly trying to tie Scott Pilgrim backlash to a few trolls on the comments section? I assume the reason the negativity comes through in the comments is because those people were banned from the boards for disagreeing with the CHUD majority. I know it's my only outlet to throw in my 2 cents. The boards are not a place for "discussion"; they're a place to tell Devin how great his articles are. Read the SP post-release thread. It's a creepy echo chamber of intense praise, and anyone who suggest otherwise is slammed. You can't have it both ways – CHUD seems to want a soapbox for the writers' favorite movies and opinions, and a loyal audience that follows their every word. They want a "community". But the door swings both ways, and you're going to get opposing opinions. Fact is, SP did not have wide appeal. And for some people who were on the fence about it, this site's coordinated effort at grassroots marketing pushed them in the opposite direction, and made them root for the film to fail.
Great response Del Monte, it was very good food for thought.
We actually had a long back and forth between the editorial staff over at SR about the nature of my article versus what the title implied.
You are right, I divert from directly answering the question – my thought was if you start explaining WHY critics care about audience reaction to movies, you are therefore automatically assuming that those who letting loose with the backlash are "critics." I couldn't agree with that assertion – traditional critics don't really lash out in that way (as you yourself pointed out), it's more a symptom of "new critics" who are used to constantly being engaged with a movie and freely voicing their opinion of it.
It's def a little bait-and-switch move I pulled, but I'm good with it.
Again, great response piece.
A rare miss from you, Damon. That's a lot of effort to make a point no one was arguing. I also laughed at "strange negative reactions."
Don't forget that grass makes a great addition to children's masks and hair flare to boot.
Great show and article to boot.
Once again, this fascinates you because it was a movie you liked and are simply butt hurt that the vast majority of moviegoers didn't agree with you. QQ moar, as the kids say.Winter's Bone is awesome, and yet you couldn't pay any of the hipster types enough to go see it, because it isn't cool enough for them since it is essentially real life and not some mumblecore, fantasy, sci-fi, manga, porn, bullshit. Btw, it's funny you mentioned Serenity without using it as an example of trolling for hits. Seriously though, Alex, I know it can be annoying when something you care about and want people to discover is ignored and/or ridiculed as overrated. However, you'll survive and move on to find something else *cue inspirational music*
We all know quality is not measured based on the films opening, though countless posters love to profess shit like "I like to believe that a flim's quailty is based on how good it is, not how much money it makes YOU FUCKING MORONS!!!!", as if they are some grand champion of cinema. Fact is the people that are ragging on a film like SP failing know this, BUT when you see a reviewer/site fellating a movie, and it's cast/director it can become a bit irritating, thus the backlash. Readers want to hear about new films, but when they feel that the line has been crossed from recommending a film to SELLING them a film, when a heavily hyped movie doesn't sell, they feel that the person begging them to go see the movie should eat some shit. Is this right? No, but when you are doing interviews or write ups and taking jabs at the readers, instead of just focusing on the film, the readers easiest way to get their jabs in, is to mock the success of such a film. So please stop telling us that quality is not based on performance, we know it, but we also find it funny when a film is trying so hard to hit their target demographic and failing miserably. Sometimes, no matter how hard the sell, some people just can't be bought.
My guess is that the Rifftrax gal was dating a member of the crew. He made her come to the show – she's making him take her to 'Eat, Pray, Love'.
Scott Pilgrim– a great, well-made movie which I cannot knowlingly recommend to any of my co-workers. I know that I can, on one level, tell people "it's a movie about the anxieties and baggage that's dealt with in starting a new relationship," but the slacker-centric framing, the video-game references and musical stylings make it seem inaccessable to anyone over, say, 40, and under maybe 25. Full appreciation would go to those of us who not just played Zelda: Link To The Past, but also River City Ransom, Final Fantasy 2 and Final Fight. Or listened not just to Beck but also bands like Cub or The Breeders. The marketing only hurt the movie, making it look like a movie about hipsters, but the lack of posteuring really does make these kids into slackers (or the early 90's variety). It's sad that Vampires Suck will do well this weekend, but it does appeal to current trends and technology, whereas Scott Pilgrim has a more arcane appeal.
an amazing essay, HOWEVER, the reality is that Scott Pilgrim is not a great film. The premise doesn't work, the story doesn't work, the cast doesn't work. I don't understand on what planet that this incredibly niche geek property with so many ideas that ring false and contrived (fantasy super powers with zero grounding or set up, the fact that a weenis like Scott could bed a woman like Ramona in one night) could have been a popular and financial success. Whatever Scott Pilgrim wants to be, Kung Fu Hustle did it vastly better.
Ah, the old "box office says nothing of a films' quality" excuse, which is conveniently used to protect a beloved film that flops or as a springboard for when a beloved film soars. None of it matters… of course! It's all pointless conjecture! That's why Dre spends all this time constructing these articles.
Andre, I love your column. It's thoughtful and your perspective is unique. There's obviously something personally disappointing to you about the financial results for Pilgrim, and that's okay. I think the discussion is interesting. Whether it keeps anyone from attending the film or not, the hyperbolic praise for this movie at least inspires a pushback. It's natural. My feelings about it are predicated more on the inverse– interesting, exciting movies dismissed and confidently derided as worthless trash because they involve some element people don't like. Jennifer's Body is, for me, a good recent example. Way more to think about there than in a lot of movies cheered by the geekocracy. When I want to have a nuanced discussion of a movie like that and get little, forgive me if I push back against the "common wisdom" on a sacred (and talented) cow like Edgar Wright. Who, by the way, I am also rooting for. We all have our personal crusades, I guess.
The only reason people want films like SP to do well at the box office is to make sure we get the majors to invest in future quirky, unique films that need a decent sized budget to achieve their vision. We're headlong into a world with nothing but dirt-cheap indies and megabudget blockbusters, with no room for the excellent $50 mil genre filcks. So when sites like CHUD back a unique, entertaining, exciting film like SP, it's to prove that there's an audience for these films, not to stand atop the box office as champion of the world. The fear is that we'll be dealing with crap like Vampires Suck every week. Universal just couldn't convince normal folks that it was worth seeing, they assumed it was a video game movie or something for a small, niche audience.
1. Wait for ads to load/cripple browser.
2. Reload page again.
3. Scroll immediately to bottom.
4. Read numbers.
5. Fucking depart abysmal article.
Andre, love you man, but I gotta agree with #9, when did "Box Office" become a rant?
I think anyone who backlashes against a film because some site(s) on the web "fellate" it is, quite simply, stupid. I mean, what exactly is the correlation between web hype and the quality of a film? The answer, of course, is nothing. The problem exists solely in the mind of the viewer who is unable to manage their own expectations. Yes, SP was hyped on the internet. Personally, I thought it was great (I'd put it on a par with Kick-Ass – another internet-hyped and audience-shunned film that I loved). Oh well. The bonus for me is that I got great buzz from those films; a buzz that the hype-backlashers will never enjoy. I know which position I'd rather be in.
All this talk about championing a film because it will produce more unique films. If the film flops, they bitch about people passing up something different. If the film succeeds, they bitch about the studio fast-tracking a needless sequel because the last one made money. Either way, your right to criticize their position is fucked.
the proprieters of this site are not interested in debating the points they make, that is why I have been refused admittance to the forums despite 3 attempts to register there. And I may have given Scott Pilgrim a chance if the leading man was Joseph Gordon Levitt, there is a skinny geek with charisma, an ability to sell action and express emotion. 90 percent of my disdain for this film is due to the Cera factor (who is this no talent related to anyway?). The other 10 is on the hard sell and the way some of the writers here like to say there is something wrong with you if you dont happen to share their opinion.
Has anyone ever stopped to think that "critics" deliberately go counter-culture just to make themselves seem more "hip" than the average movie-goer? That's right I said "movie," not "cinema" for all you elitists. Here is the scoop, they want you to watch a deep, moving tale about someone coming to grips with a life struggle and finding the inner strength to deal with it … all for about three hours. Now, I would prefer watching some killer fish rip off some boobies while people crack one-liners the whole time. Not that there is anything wrong with the previous movie, it is just that they get their underwear all twisted up because no more than seven people across the country want to WATCH that movie. Doesn't make them wrong, just makes them isolated. That same movie will go on to win an Oscar, and leave all of the money-making that greases the Hollywood gears to the movies sites like these call "garbage popcorn movies." It is the same in music, and television … all of the "critically lauded" products usually don't do very damn well because the "critics" are trying to find something that they can claim is theirs and nobody elses. Meanwhile, they watch and enjoy all the popcorn movies too … then write a shite review of most of them. I am not saying Andre is like that, I generally enjoy his stuff on the site … only stuff I still read for anything other than release dates and interview questions.
Tell me now, which family member, friend, ex girl or boyfriend, co worker, former class mate would you recommend watching Scott Pilgrim?
CHUD has shown its colors by having a raging boner for hipster "cool nerdy" movies like Kick Ass and Scott Pilgrim, yet both movies underperformed.
Who the hell is going to watch that ****? Seriously, is it because Devin Faraci from CHUD keeps masturbating over the said movies?
Pin point me the character that is even half way likeable in Scott Pilgrim? "Well thats the point!" who cares what the point is, the truth of the matter is that there isent a single likeable character in the film.
Why, would anyone bar the internet anime videogamer from US of A be interested in this?
What the HELL do you think people in Asia and Europe think when they see a poster for this movie?
It blows my mind how arroggant people can be on the internet, its amazing to just witness the "reviews" on this site and many others for this movie.
Comments are shown as archived from the original site; new comments are closed.