I hope to make this my last word on Avatar, at least until I see it.
The movie is just a couple of weeks away – the London premiere is on December 10th, and while reviews are embargoed until the day of release, I’m sure word will get out. Hell, I’m sure embargoes will be demolished on this one as everybody rushes to print their review within hours of the film ending. What I wonder is whether the release of the film will mark the beginning or the end of the Avatar wars.
There’s no secret that I’m not psyched for Avatar. Nothing I’ve seen so far interests me – I hate the designs of the Na’vi, the story feels hackneyed to me, I think 3D is a gimmick, James Cameron’s movies rarely work for me on a level beyond ‘Oh, that was cool,’ and even his most emotionally true film, The Abyss, feels like the mawkish musings of an unsocialized tween – and I’ve made no secret of that. But for a certain segment of the population (the folks I’ve been calling the Avatards), this has been tantamount to high treason. These people have twisted my lack of interest into an actual campaign to ‘take the movie down,’ which is both silly and flattering. It’s flattering that anyone would think I have the power to bring down a movie as big as this, and that I could bring it down by expressing an opinion that can mostly be dumbed down to ‘Meh.’
I won’t lie – this has been bothering me. The personal attacks these people make on CHUD’s comments, in emails to me, and on sites all over the web ranging from MarketSaw to IMDB, don’t bother me. It’s the idea that even a mild lack of interest and a healthy dose of skepticism can be seen by these people as personally offensive and as serious attacks on a property they love. And that’s what bothers me too; Avatar has been much-ballyhooed as an original movie, so these people can’t have previous attachments to the world, the story or the characters and yet they do. They treat this movie like it’s the adaptation of their favorite work of fiction. I guess some of this can be attributable to the early scriptment leaking onto the internet a decade ago, but that scriptment is frankly no good.
These people have created a partisan dividing line that is as insane as it is unnecessary. It’s interesting that they get so threatened when someone doesn’t express the correct amount of enthusiasm for their favored project, and it’s left me wondering if this isn’t a sign of deep insecurity, if they don’t have the same doubts deep in their minds that I have. That maybe they look at the Avatar Day footage and have to say to themselves, even if in an unconscious way, ‘This doesn’t look particularly better than stuff I’ve seen before.’ But that’s just me armchair psychoanalyzing (note: I am quite certain these people do need to be psychoanalyzed). But whatever the cause of their inability to accept dissenting opinions on this film, it is real, and it is frightening.
But will it last? As we move into the final weeks before the release of the film my mild disinterest in the movie turns into a keen curiosity. Despite the protests of folks at Fox, I know that the budget of this film is near or at 500 million dollars. I’ve had it confirmed by too many sources, some of them incredibly close to the project, to doubt it anymore. I’ve met my first real live person who has seen Avatar, and they gave it a resounding ‘It’s okay.’ The caveat: ‘It’s no Titanic,’ meaning Cameron hasn’t birthed another billion dollar baby (in this person’s eyes). But regardless of that person’s opinions, I’ve become really curious as to how this film will be received upon release; I live in a Hollywood bubble but my understanding is that Avatar hasn’t quite become an event film for the general audience yet (and it really, really needs to be the event film of the decade with that budget). Maybe Fox is waiting until December to pull out the stops (that’s very likely. Expect lots of magazine covers after Thanksgiving), or maybe Fox has again proved they don’t know how to market a film (also very likely), but from where I sit I don’t see the buzz that usually precedes a major hit. Can Avatar break New Moon‘s opening weekend? I really wonder, and this curiosity – a cold, hard interest in the numbers – is what has me keeping an eye on the film.
All of which leads me to wonder what will happen when the movie comes out. Is this the next Episode I, a movie that divides the fans and kept message board arguments sparking for years and years after release? Or is this King Kong, a film that underwhelmed and really sank out of the geek mindset? Either way the Avatards will carry the flag, but what about the rest of us? I was convinced that the first half of 2010 would be filled with Avatar-related battles across blogs and boards (no matter the quality of a movie like this it will divide bloggers and commenters. And this one, good or bad, will provoke very strong reactions, many of which will be about Cameron as opposed to the movie itself. It’s how Lucas got in the way of serious discussion of Episode III), but lately I’ve been getting this feeling that we’re in the waning days of the Avatar wars. That while the partisans will keep up their attacks on non-believers, most people just won’t care enough to get involved.
I could be very wrong, of course. We could see Avatar dominate the nerd conversation for months to come. But with so many other geek properties zooming our way, and with the film continuing to build up a very strong smell of mediocrity (as a movie. I’m not here to make too many judgment calls on the tech until I’ve seen the film. But I’m a film fan, not a technology fan, so all that crap is not terribly important to me), I feel like we’ve made it through the worst of the skirmishes. There may be some more to come – surely there will be opportunities to call people haters simply because they’re underwhelmed by the clips online, or to say that people must have a personal vendetta against James Cameron just because they wonder if there couldn’t have been a more original story to tell on Pandora – but I suspect that by February Avatar will be something in our rear view mirror as we all begin arguing about the Thor costume.
A final note: I’d like to be wrong. About it all. I would like to see Avatar and be blown away, to be transported to an alien planet and be swept away by an epic story of heroism and romance. I’d like Avatar to be the first Cameron film since The Terminator to connect with me on a very human level (Titanic came very close, but a lot of that was cheap manipulation on Cameron’s part. I’m not complaining about that cheap manipulation – the shot of the old couple on the bed as water rushes in just works – but it’s the difference between being scared by a guy jumping out at you and by a guy telling you a terrifyingly tense story. Cameron jumps out and shouts ‘boogedy boogedy’ at your emotions in Titanic). There is nothing I’d like more than to rush home after seeing the movie and write a review that is filled with passion and excitement and most of all hope for the future of the new technologies Cameron keeps touting. I’d like to have my mind changed about 3D. I’d like to be convinced that Sam Worthington is in fact a movie star. I’d like to love the hell out of this movie.





114 comments
"It's flattering that anyone would think I have the power to bring down a movie as big as this."
HAHAHHAHA Don't kid yourself. Nobody thinks you have the willpower to push yourself away from the dinner table, let alone alter the course of an industry from which you hungrily devour the table scraps they toss you.
Re: That last paragraph. The problem is that you're more in love with the idea of being right and that's ultimately what will lead to your mediocre impression of the movie before you've seen it. (If it's of any consequence, I'm very mild in my anticipation of the movie; I'll see it, but I'm not dying to.)
Devin: Even among the rarified segment of the population who follow these sort of things, I believe there is a silent majority that is with you on this subject (At least I am). I am glad that you take all of this apopleptic character-bashing with so many grains of salt.
I know where you are coming from Devin regarding Avatar. I am a big Cameron fan and am only seeing the film because of the man behind the lens, not because the trailer did anything for me.
I think it's irritating that you get a lot of flack. I don't always agree with you, but I always appreciate your candor and enjoy learning your point of view…So many film sites and podcasts feature such phonies, it's why you are one of my go-to critics.
The video clips online have so far been extremely underwhelming, and I've seen barely any other advertising. No one I know is talking about the movie or seems excited about it.
I was excited when I first heard that Cameron was making another movie after all these years. Even more so when the hype machine started rolling out. Photo realistic alien planet, totally original alien creatures, kick ass. I couldn't wait.
But then I saw some of the footage… Meh. The story doesn't sound that great either. That South Park episode got it dead on… 'Dances with Smurfs'
Also isn't it kind of strange that with the exception of Piranna 2, all of Cameron's movie titles begin with either an A or T?
so avatards are the new brown coats?
Recall that Devin also hated on the new Star Trek, and then liked it quite a bit. That last paragraph isn't disingenuous. That said Star Trek had far better buzz three weeks out than Avatar …
It's going to suck. Plain and simple.
I really want to like AVATAR, but it just seems like a big technical ballyhoo of sorts.
"I'm a film fan, not a technology fan, so all that crap is not terribly important to me." My sentiments exactly. As a film, it doesn't seem to be striking any chord with me. And as far as originality in the story department? South Park had it right: Dances With Smurfs.
Totally with you, Devin. Doesn't look like anything special to me, let alone something people are freaking out over.
does anyone ever get extremely saddened at how unimportant all this is?
I have to say I feel about the same way. I want to be impressed by this movie. But it seems unlikely.
My kid wanted to see Christmas Carol, and the Avatar preview was on there. My Wife (who has no preconceptions or investment in this movie) leaned over and whispered "that looks awful"
I am afriad there will be many non sci-fi non animation people who will have that same impression from all of the marketing.
This is 2009, I'm expecting some twat to live twitter everything from right inside the theatre.
For some perspective in regards to this whole debacle, I have no interest in Avatar whatsoever. Movies with overloaded special effects aren't my thing. And I still find your constant back-handed bashing of this and other movies commonly accepted as 'good' to be immature and disruptive strictly for the sake of being so. You're the only so-called journalist I've ever read where you actually seem intent on purposely antagonizing the very people who are the reason you have a job in the first place. It's pathetic, and frankly a little disturbing Nick lets this kind of behavior continue.
Fans of this site are being tricked by their hatred of you into pre-loving Avatar. Hating you now is guaranteed fun, and this is the approach they have to take in order to get the most out of Avatar, since it looks increasingly as if the film won't deliver. Also, you're fat.
Not only did Devin like the new Star Trek, he also admitted to liking the Dark Knight, another movie he'd been bashing. Devin isn't somebody who needs to be right, he's just incredibly opinionated, which is a good trait to have when you write about film. My big issue with Devin is that he tends to bash a fan base or make sweeping generalizations about people. However, in the case of the Avatar fans I think he's in the right. He gets insulted all over the internet for his opinion on Avatar and its usually either juvenile or a misinterpretation of what he said.
I don't think their complaints about your dislike of Avatar have anything to do with the movie or what you have written about the movie.
All that I have gotten from your writings is a feeling of 'Meh' about Avatar, just like you said. It seems highly unlikely that people would get upset with you because you are apathetic towards a film.
The more likely cause of these personal attacks is that you offend people quite often. They then troll for your attention. And you keeping feeding them.
I have similar concerns that Frogger has. These spats that you have with these small sections of the movie geeks out there distract from the real content that this site provides.
Once again you choose to throw out your ten cents worth about a movie that isn't out because you love stirring up chaos. On that note , you speak of partisan dividing line, well the line was created by you. I sometimes wonder, after seeing a review of yours, if it's not just your low self esteem talking. The director in question has changed the way we view movies and has brought us some of the greatest movies in the last couple of decades. His insight comes from a man that dares to push media forward, not one that slugs around a cubicle tearing things down.
"Not only did Devin like the new Star Trek, he also admitted to liking the Dark Knight…" I liked the Dark Knight, but I didn't love it like a lot of people did/do. However, his review for the movie is one of the least objective critiques I've ever read. I swear it's the only "postive" review I've read where someone starts the review off by complaining about the movie, brings up everything he didn't like, and then ends with a high score. I pictured him constipated on his shitter gritting his teeth and trying to force out a brick-sized turd as he wrote that review because he didn't even want to ADMIT it was a good movie. It's like watching Fox News for actual content. The biasness is never going to go away and its going to poison everything to come. AND JESUS CHRIST, IT'S JUST CINEMA, PEOPLE. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ENTERTAINING.
I agree w Frogger. Too many pieces are littered with jabs that have zero filmic or journalistic merit. Plus you call them Avatards. Way to take the high ground.
I probably side with the "haters" (or really, the "schadenfreuders") but if the film actually works in the cinema, that's all I need from it. But if it sucks balls – I'll get my enjoyment from the online evisceration. Win/Win for me. But on the side of the 'Tards, you can always make the argument that a big failure on Avatar might actually make the man pull his thumb out of his arse for Alita and actually deliver a good movie for the first time in 2 decades. You've got a good 4 – 5 years of geeky anticipation and speculation ahead of you for his "return to form". Win/Win for you.
I agree with Frogger. I don't care what Devin thinks about almost anything, but he's a good enough writer that I can read his stuff and be amused. He's a good gimmick, the angry fanboy who thinks he's better than an angry fanboy.
Actually, I enjoy them most of the time, but there is one fundamental flaw in your article (well, there are a few, but they're not all worth mentioning): You say you REALLY want to love this movie? You don't. It's as simple as that. With all due respect to your achievements, you're that obnoxious prat everyone knows from school. The guy who responds to "hey, I really liked *insert movie here*!" with "No you didn't, cuz it FUCKING SUCKED!" Don't be so pretentious. You like swimming against the current, but you're floating down to the lonely fanboy island. If they want to love Avatar, let them love it. Wait for the actual release before you get uptight about a frigging movie.
Oh look. This thread is already filled with morons from marketsaw,
I am excited to see Avatar. But … I have zero respect for the maturity, intelligence or even the reading ability of these people who can't accept that other people don't feel excited about the film, especially the ones who let Devin's (or anyone else's) unenthusiastic opinions make them upset or angry. I'm utterly convinced that those people who are so upset by Devin's reporting so far are either under 20 years of age (and therefore have the perfectly normal but troubling combination of out-of-control hormones and under-developed brains) or are literally emotionally and intellectually retarded. It's the second type who really are the worrying ones, because they should know better and the fact that they don't is just sad.
Devin, this is why I keep reading this site. Your critical approach to movies doesn't just stop at the movies themselves. We live in an age where anticipation and hype and marketing are as much of the experience as the actual films. Whether that's sad or not is, frankly, up to each person. The enthusiasm, or lack thereof, in the buildup to Avatar is fair game for analysis and response. It seems that every time you write a "Meh" article about the latest ho-hum piece of Avatar hype, you get swamped by commenters that accuse you of pre-judging a movie that they themselves have already deemed to be awesome. Don't let the Avatards get to you.
As my mum used to say, "youll never get your dick wet talking about how gross a vagina is."
Every avatar related post carries your naysaying, followed by whatever amount of fanboy backlash, so I'm not even convinced that this article should exist considering that it's been beaten over the head of your audience every time a blue freckle shows up. Admittedly, it's hard to validate your opinion given that the machine behind this film has a million fucking laser shooting arms to keep away bad press, but this article very clearly is just you tooting your own horn about…everything you've been writting. I'm excited for a cool action movie, as is promised to me by the previews, and I think falling victim to the hype machine is no good for audiences, much less so for journalists who need to elevate themselves above that twister as to avoid writing pointless articles.
great article devin. totally agree. i dont think cameron is the supreme story teller the avatards make him out to be. still think his best movie is the abyss, and even then, its largely due to some truly inspired set design and some fucking brilliant performances by the leads (even michael biehn, who really needs to be in avatar somewhere). obviously avatar will have lots of 'oh hey that was pretty fucking cool' moments, but all this hype is actually getting me more excited to sit down and rewatch season 2 of entourage again.
Devin, I have no problem with someone being lukewarm on a movie before release(I'm not particularly excited for Avatar either). My problem is that you repeat yourself in every post about the film. You're underwhelmed. We get it. I've noticed you do the same thing anytime Batman Begins is mentioned on the site. Your opinions are well known by now. You can ease up a bit.
This Avatar thing has been fascinating to watch. I'm a huge fan of Cameron's work (esp. Aliens) but I have no problem admitting he's an insufferable blowhard. I'm also stoked to see Avatar but I have no illusions about the potential for mediocrity. So I find it strange when I run across a message board filled with a 40-page discussion about whether a particular FX shot in the trailer looks better or worse than Jurassic Park / King Kong / etc., going into technical detail usually reserved for industry FX geeks. People are taking this almost as seriously as politics. What's more, it's sweeping up folks who are usually far more dispassionate and objective than I am. What on Earth is going on? The whole phenomenon needs to be studied.
You shouldn't say that sort of thing out loud, Atomic Age Dog. The avatards will say you're a virgin living in your parents' basement.
I am going to see it for the 3-d. i saw footage at comic con and that was the most impressive part of the movie. You won't get how amazing the 3-d was from a trailer on your computer. I don't care how fat Devin is.
Hey Devin, completely in agreement with you re: AVATAR so far. From the beginning I could never conjure up any excitement about it. I probably won't see it unless it blows you and/or the other CHUDsters out of the water.
What's the deal with all these people with a massive hate-on for you? You're a total curmudgeon but really, people get themselves worked up over the most minor shit.
devin is just trying to push down the anticipation level for this movie, which is a good thing, since it's impossible right now for the film to actually live up to it's hype. it's always better to expect a turd and then be pleasantly surprised. that said, i certainly hope this thing will make me feel like a 6-year old watching star wars for the first time. 😉
Avatar is going to suck, that much is obvious from the trailers, BUT I think all the hate and attacks on Devin has nothing to do with his opinion on Avatar, it's just after all these years and all these articles, lots of people out there are looking for a reason to hate Devin. It's just karma
I don't know anyone in my social circle who is jonesing for this movie. And I usually have friends who are willing to see this big budget sci fi action stuff. It's cool to see a big budget movie that isn't a sequel or an adaptation but this one just comes across as pretty dull to me.
" I'd like to be wrong. About it all."
Bull. Shit. Like you could be objective at all about the film now. You have a vested interest in it's failure. You very much like to be "right" and have already decided that you're going to be.
these fuckin online critics they'll whine about people who get mad at them for thinking avatar will suck then they turn around and bitch at the people who think diablo cody sucks. Whats wrong james cameron dosen't get the same kind of defense because hes not your twitter friend?
I find it amusing anyone would ever want any potentially good movie to fail. Part of me is radically disgusted at twilight's success. Part of me really loved Kristen Stewart in Adventureland and would love to see this movie make it so she can write her own ticket and be quirky and fun. No one gets anything out of movies that fail and I think Devin sees that.
I know you have a pretty big ego that you try to temper with self-depricating humor, but seriously, nobody things you can bring this movie down. I think the movie will do enough to sabotage itself all on its own without help from some Internet dork who looks lke Peter Jackson before lost the weight. I suspect most people are just tearing into you, Devin, because someone who says that James Cameron's movies don't really work for him is someone whose opinion can't really be taken seriously. Plus you're generally projecting the persona of a pompous asshole, so there's that too.
Let's all argue about a film nobody has seen!
Personally, I think Devin does a great job writing about films. He tells me everything I want to know about them and then gives them a rating. Yes I want to know what a critic doesn't like about a movie, yes I want to know what they liked. In the end, if I think the film still has promise and will entertain me, then I'll go watch the movie. I find that I generally agree with him and when I don't, I usually can see why he came upon the opinion that he did. And as far as Devin flaming large swathes of the geek population, grow up..the world isn't fair. If people are calling you out for doing something stupid, well maybe you are. Keep up the good work Devin.
Ha! This is too good! You can't take it, can you? Amazing!
Personally, I think Devin does a great job writing about films. He tells me everything I want to know about them and then gives them a rating. Yes I want to know what a critic doesn't like about a movie, yes I want to know what they liked. In the end, if I think the film still has promise and will entertain me, then I'll go watch the movie. Devin is an oversensitive fatass. I find that I generally agree with him and when I don't, I usually can see why he came upon the opinion that he did. And as far as Devin flaming large swathes of the geek population, grow up..the world isn't fair. If people are calling you out for doing something stupid, well maybe you are. Keep up the good work Devin.
I don't think their complaints about your dislike of Avatar have anything to do with the movie or what you have written about the movie. All that I have gotten from your writings is a feeling of 'Meh' about Avatar, just like you said. It seems highly unlikely that people would get upset with you because you are apathetic towards a film. The more likely cause of these personal attacks is that you offend people quite often. They then troll for your attention. And you keeping feeding them. I have similar concerns that Frogger has. Devin's fat ass is a threat to world peace. These spats that you have with these small sections of the movie geeks out there distract from the real content that this site provides.
just curious…. how many of you not "taken" with the clips went to Avatar Day? what i saw doesnt match up with what they're releasing online. dev wrote up an article a few days back about unfinished fx making its way into the screen, and i'm sure thats true, but what i saw on the faux imax (my amc has the digital imax) was crystal clear, unbelievably smooth and the 3d was better than anything i've seen before. (love the "gimmick" monsters v aliens, up, my bloody valentine, bolt, coraline, meet the robinsons, beowulf, nightmare before christmas, the final distention). if you're gonna "hate" on it, thats all well and good, but i just think its funny how you can judge something like this with out seeing it in the proper presentation level. i dont own a 70" 1080 hd tv, i dont own a $3000 sound system, thats why i go to the movie house. to see it bigger and better than anywhere else. is the storyline weak? sure, maybe… dances with smufs? sure, i'll LOL, but i was making the same faces when the premise for true lies came out. the giant budget? i sneered at titanic and its cheeseball poster and longwinded runtime, yet, cameron found a way to not only make it enjoyable, but memorable.
i'm sure avatar is no different.
Actually, I enjoy them most of the time, but there is one fundamental flaw in your article (well, there are a few, but they're not all worth mentioning): You say you REALLY want to love this movie? You don't. It's as simple as that. With all due respect to your achievements, you're that obnoxious prat everyone knows from school. The guy who responds to "hey, I really liked *insert movie here*!" with "No you didn't, cuz it FUCKING SUCKED!" Devin really needs to lose some fucking weight. Don't be so pretentious. You like swimming against the current, but you're floating down to the lonely fanboy island. If they want to love Avatar, let them love it. Wait for the actual release before you get uptight about a frigging movie.
As my mum used to say, "youll never get your dick wet talking about how gross a vagina is." Every avatar related post carries your naysaying, followed by whatever amount of fanboy backlash, so I'm not even convinced that this article should exist considering that it's been beaten over the head of your audience every time a blue freckle shows up. Admittedly, it's hard to validate your opinion given that the machine behind this film has a million fucking laser shooting arms to keep away bad press, but this article very clearly is just you tooting your own horn about…everything you've been writting. Try laying off the carbs fatass. I'm excited for a cool action movie, as is promised to me by the previews, and I think falling victim to the hype machine is no good for audiences, much less so for journalists who need to elevate themselves above that twister as to avoid writing pointless articles.
Devin ist ein Ekel, Selbst gerechter dicker Arsch.
Well Devin, Yes you know who this is dont you =)
Let me be very clear.
I WARNED YOU NOT TO MESS WITH ME.
and as the world has witnessed, you have suffered!
I AM NOT DONE WITH YOU YET!
I am the one you remove on sight from this website! You will learn not to go after people and properties you have no right or say (yet) in going after. The major factor in the so called AVATAR wars was the imdb artical titled DEVIN FARCI EXPOSED! Hurt didnt it Devin ? or how about the Crew member letters ? they must really have hurt! or how about the fact that those combined have villified you to the online community! you bit off far more than you could chew didnt you!
I AM NOT DONE WITH YOU!
Nice to see you will keep your mouth shut until you actually are qualified to open it!
I am pretty sure that last crew member letter got to you! it would do me!
Serves you rght for your biased opinions, your entitled to hate! but you are not entitled to try and get third parties involved to try and sue JC.
This is your final warning from me. be fair, or be prepared to face the consequences.
No amount of backpeddleing will help you now Devin. NO AMOUNT
WE EXPECTED THIS!
All in all, i think you may well be a nice guy, you may well be someone i would like to sit and chat with, but this is bizznizz! You are not the only talented person in the room.
THERE NEVER WAS AN AVATAR WAR.
it was lost the instant you upset that one crucial person. Me!
GG
Looking forward to a Star trek style U-turn on this one.
ALIENS is my fave movie of all time. Terminator is in my top 10. I even loved the Abyss. Liked T2 and True Lies somewhat. Titanic was ok. Avatar is maybe my most anticipated movie of all time…..I've been slobbering on Cameron's balls like the rest of you faggots for like 25 motherfuckin years. HOWEVER….this looks "ok" at best. It looks like a toon. It looks like it's from The Phantom Menace/King Kong remake school of filmmaking. Devin may be a fat beareded douche, but I'll be damned if he may not be right on this one, with it's orgasm of CGI toonage. Still, I'll be there, at IMAX, with those nerd glasses on, hoping for the best.
@#51 Jeez someones mommy didn't hug them this morning, don't worry she was hugging something else. Seriously, move out of your parents basement.
i totally agree with you, devin, on pretty much everything in this article…but why do you have to call people names? You're kind of complaining about people harrassing you online for your opinion…but with the word "Avatard," you're equzting their anticiaption (no matter how obsessive) with being retarded. I realize if everyone played nice all the time, reviews and opinion pieces would be pretty boring, but it's hard for me to enjoy your critiques sometimes, even when i agree with what you're writing, because you definitely take pains to insult whole groups of people, you know?
I've been reading this website for years, and i have recommended it to a lot of people, but between you and nick consisting baiting people, like avatar and Twilight fans, it's getting kind of sad. Arguing over entertainment is fun, but calling people names over what they like or dislike isn't.
So Jared, when can see James Cameron directing AT and T, the movie?
Judging by this talkback, this movie's going to make a trillion dollars. And since when has chud been anything but a rebellious anti-conformity site. I like that side of it at least even if I don't like the pomposity. Takes guts to be honest in a dishonest world.
Insert impassioned indictment of Devin's lack of objectivity concerning fan property I haven't seen yet. Continue with ironic, completely subjective hero worship, hyperbolic arguments, and appeal to novelty fallacy. Conclude with fat joke.
I'm glad people are pumped, I'm not going to belittle passion. Still, I think the people that are excited for Avatar a vocal minority. Outside of the feverish internet geek world, no one I know cares about Avatar. They're gushing over Sherlock Holmes and the Princess and the Frog. The very fact that countless millions have been used to give the whole thing special effects that look like a video game cast the whole thing in a cloud of doubt. CGI is CGI, no matter how many GDPs for small countries you dump into it. I'm gonna see it because I'll support any halfway decent sci-fi movie in the theaters but I look at this and must conclude that the emperor has no clothes. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.
God did you really just shit on The Abyss? That movie is about as good as it gets when it comes to Hollywood scifi. What more could you fucking want?
Avatar cannot fail, it can only be failed.
I enjoy reading Devin’s stuff, but he’s definitely one of the most subjective film reporters out there. He’ll take a dump on any information pertaining to a third Batman film, yet explode over anything Edgar Wright touches (OMG! IS THIS THE EYEBROW OF THE ASIAN GIRL PLAYING THAT SIXTH TIER CHARACTER IN THE NEW SCOTT PILGRIM FILM!!!1!), and his slavish devotion to the Harry Potter franchise is confusing at best.
As far as his thoughts on Avatar are concerned, I tend to agree with him. “Meh” sums it up for me too, I see a preview for a film that looks like an extended X-BOX360 cut scene, and long for the simpler days of costumes and model effects more than anything else. Is this the” future of film”? You mean like that the Star Wars prequels and the fourth Indiana Jones? I hope not.
The problem is that time spent on this tedious Avatar war could be better spent else where, and a lot of projects have fallen by the way side (The Star Trekkin’ series was stupidly ambitious, and crashed and burned accordingly – but I would love to see more Chudsploitation entries). Hopefully this really is Devin’s “last word” on the film.
CHUD can be a quality site at times, but then I watch Devin bait the “Avatards” the way Nick baited the Twilight fans, and realize that they can be link-whores just like every other damn film site out there.
I miss the old days when CHUD was a site about movies, not a site about Devin. Get a fucking blog and keep your super trivial personal boohoo bullshit off CHUD.
Hear hear, Devin.
Avatar is such a non-event, avatards don't even exist outside the internet, it's gonna do as much money as sky captain, we already know the geek audience who is supposedly so hyped up for this movie wont make it to the theater because they cant convince their moms to drop them off, its weird to be bothered but such a group of ineffectual people, I'm simply bothered by your constant barrage of it, who gives a shit, its your high and mighty shtick that gets boring after awhile. kudos to comments #23 and #28
Nobody cares what we think, and very few even know who Devin is. On the other hand, Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott, and Sodenberg all have raved about Avatar and immediately made plans to begin their own projects. Their own experienced eyes and decades of filmaking success told them that Avatar was spectacular (I'm pretty sure a few of them used some pretty colorful language to describe how excited they were over the footage.) Most of the world has the same taste in movies as these men. Most of the world loved the Nolan Batman movies. Most of the world loves Cameron movies. I'm pretty sure most of the world will enjoy a Cameron movie, in 3D (and may enjoy it multiple times). I'm not going to bash Devin. Happy Thanksgiving dude. In the end, we all have our tastes and opinions. Some just tend to be in the minority. You can call them smart, sad, pretentious, brave…in the end they are people and I wish them the best.
Holy shit. A virgin tsunami! Avatards/James Cameron fans are actually crazier and less mature than those Twilighter teenage girls who stormed the site earlier in the year. "FAIL LIFE" T-Shirts for all.
I think comparing it to KING KONG is right on. That movie made $200 million and topped many critics' ten-best lists, and was still (not falsely) seen as a failure by the public. Some people just aren't going to buy a 40-foot-tall ape as a protagonist, and a lot of those same people aren't going to buy 9-foot-tall Smurfs riding irridescent lizards in the jungle. Cameron has earned the privilege of a $500 million budget from 20th Century Fox, but he's also due for a failure — and this could definitely be a big, fat failure. Can it make "New Moon" money in its first weekend? No way. And I don't think Cameron thinks it can either (check out his CNN.com interview). This movie needs to have incredible, long-reaching legs the likes of which we haven't seen since … "Titanic."
" It's interesting that they get so threatened when someone doesn't express the correct amount of enthusiasm for their favored project, and it's left me wondering if this isn't a sign of deep insecurity"-Dude…this is the problem with the WORLD today. If you dont share the exact same opinion as everyone else,the majority is ready to burn you at the stake. I usually cant stand to read Devins point of view,but he's right on the money with this one.
This is obviously the watering hole for those who hold great contempt for "Avatards". It's interesting that you have rallied around a man who claims to want to love this movie. Something tells me the rest of his followers have already made their decision before watching the movie (admit it…your gonna go see it). The "virgin" comments are hilarious too. If all the people who love Cameron movies and will probably enjoy this movie are geeky, immature, teenage virgins, then the world is about to have a serious decrease in population in coming years. You showed a lot of "maturity" in your user name Mr. "ForGod'sSakeGetLaid". My response is…for God's sake, please wear a condem (if you are actually getting any).
The film-as-film vs. film-as-technology point is a good one. As a mental exercise, try to imagine some of the clips of Avatar we've seen online so far involving character interactions (esp. the ones between Worthington and the Nav'i) as taking place without any f/x, just between a pair of actors in a room. With that dialogue, that storyline, is there really anything there that would attract you to this flick? Then it's really all about the floating mountains and iridescent lizards. At least "Aliens" had a gritty, dark, sweaty, bloody quality to it that we're not seeing here. The "Terminator"s had Ahhnold, "Titanic" had Kate & Leo and a hugely well-known historical icon in the form of the ship itself. Take those specific elements away and you have, well, The Abyss, which wasn't a bad film (Ed Harris helped a LOT) but didn't blow away any records.
I like movies, and I generally enjoy Cameron's work. That said, I'm not sure about this one. I'll see it, but I'm far more curious than I am stoked – to be honest, the zillion dollars that it looks like they spent on special effects kinda makes me wary. Sacrificing story for FX is never a good idea – but I hope I'm wrong about my suspicions regarding that. It is interesting to me though how many of us seem to get fired up over something that hasn't been released yet, something that we've made up our minds about before we've even seen it. Trailers can only give us so much information; I'll reserve judgment for after I actually sit through the damn thing. Also, I agree with many of you who posted before me – Devin's repeated attempts to insultingly bait entire fanbases really isn't what journalism is about, and speaks more to his insecurities than it does theirs.
I think it might benefit us all to keep in mind that we're here because of our shared love of movies and not to (pointlessly) debate over whose opinion is more valid. Like someone else alluded to above, it's not life or death, it's supposed to be entertainment.
You think "3D is a gimmick" yet you gave the awful Beowulf 9/10 and praised it's oh so glorious 3D.
People hate on you because you have a vendetta with Fox and somehow that ties into James Camerons work now.
Gotta agree with Devin on this. Saw the trailer attached to Boondock Saints II (B-) and while the Nav'i look better, the clips of the film just don't elicit any emotional response from me one way or the other. Perhaps it's the trailer's editing, but I tend to think it's the hackneyed narrative. My gut tells me this is Cameron's "Bonfire of the Vanities," both figuratively and literally. As for Jackson's "Kong," I am definitely in the minority on that one, as I loved it upon release and continue to do so.
I'm all over the place!
I'd rather see True Lies 2 than Avatar
The issue I have with criticisms of a film that nobody's seen is the fact that a lot of people seem to actually want these films to fail. I'm not specifically referencing this article but you see it all over the internet. It seems to be a case of "I don't like the look of this, I hope that it's a total bomb so that I can be smug for months to come".
The problem to me is that without visionaries, yes 'visionaries', like Cameron, Zemeckis & Spielberg continuing to push the technical envelope would we get to enjoy the spectacles we now routinely see at our local cinema?
Even if I see it and think that the film's terrible I wouldn't want it to fail. I personally love the idea of 3D cinema finally taking off and the thought of the great directors being able to finally explore into the 3rd dimension within their films is genuinely exciting. Can you imagine what someone with the imagination of Spike Jonze could do with 3D films?!
The other thing I noticed about this article is that it follows the old path of 'slag film off for 99% of story and then throw in 1% where I say that I hope it succeeds'! If people aren't bothered I wish they'd just stick to that rather than just tack on a positive note at the end to try and placate the inevitable flood of criticism.
You missed the point of Sam Worthington there Devin. He's not meant to be a movie star. The special effects are the movie star. Didn't you watch T4? Mrs Cameron dun gone raised no fools.
– AU_Armageddon
Usually when a film as big as this is coming out, my friends will be asking me all sorts of questions, what with me being the film geek (kinda) of the group.
But no one gives a flying fuck about this film.
Including me.
I'm a massive Cameron fan. Before I saw any footage I was massivly hyped for this film. But my reaction to the footage seen so far, which is the same as everyone else I know, is just…meh.
Blue aliens running through jungles…no one gets excited by that.
wow this guys a dumbass…
Who the fuck are you?
I don't even know who the guy is that wrote this article… but I know he's a complete imbecile.
I had the same problem when I made the sequel to Henry Fool (I forget the title). Anyway, that Kat Dennings has some HUGE tittays. Wait, what talkback is this again?
You see the whole real world in 3D, that's why you have 2 eyes(!), so stereoscopy is NOT a gimmick – it's the only one right way to see films.
wow! 82 comments on a movie that's not even out. this thing will be HUGE!
The most boring thing about Avatar will be all this retarded fucking antagonistic pre-game discussion. This is all.
84 comment means this article did what it was supposed to – whip Internet losers into a frenzy and drive page views.
Let's be clear – no one in the real world gives a shit about this movie. Everyone I know who has seen the trailer thinks it looks like a video game. It'll be fun to watch, but it won't be a phenomenon. It won't make its budget back.
But Devin, for a "meh" movie, you've probably posted a few dozen articles on it. You have created a "controversy" out of nothing, and now you're whining about backlash. This site has hit some low points, but this entire immature fake controversy has been by far the most pathetic.
In complete agreement with the earlier poster who said Devin should have his own blog. This site has become a soapbox to promote films that grant set visits, or to slam other films for completely biased reasons. I'm not for or against either side, but it's incredibly annoying.
Nick – Devin's a good writer. He used to be a good journalist. But please fix this shit. I know the fake controversy drives a few visits here and there, but it makes CHUD a much worse site in the process. I used to recommend this site to people. I don't anymore.
@Coldreaver – "You think "3D is a gimmick" yet you gave the awful Beowulf 9/10 and praised it's oh so glorious 3D. People hate on you because you have a vendetta with Fox and somehow that ties into James Camerons work now." – and don't forget My Bloody Valentine 3D. Or the upcoming Jackass 3D, which Devin has already fellated on the basis of its 3D. Everyone should know by now that Devin would contradict himself in the same sentence, or argue that grass is pink, if it helped score points against the imaginary army of stupid retarded nerds he apparently pictures as his audience. Shit like this and Nick's long, tedious "Twilight is for weird girls" rants have nothing to do with artistic criticism and everything to do with this site's tiresomely erratic and self-conscious contrarian stance. Or a moribund website blatantly whoring for hits, depending on your level of cynicism.
My favorite arguments? Stuff like, "everyone I know who has seen the trailer thinks it looks like a video game," or "I don't know anyone in my social circle who is jonesing for this movie, and, "no one I know is talking about the movie or seems excited about it." WOW, REALLY, so, those (and I'm going to be VERY generous here) 50 people you've talked to, or hang out with, or saw react to a clip somewhere is indicative of the 300 MILLION people in the U.S.? Or the 6.5 BILLION worldwide? Your friends/acquaintances must REALLY have their finger on the pulse, man. Maybe they should play the Lotto, or something.
Yeah, I have to agree with Devin here. Everything I've seen of Avatar is pretty unremarkable. I have a bit of curiosity about the technical aspects, but everything else just seems so clichéd.
at Comic-con Devin called Avatar "impressive": http://bit.ly/8M66Jo but now nothing interests him. Why are you contradicting yourself?
I'm surprised that Aliens wasn't even mentioned in your editorial. A film that garnered Oscar nominations and is usually second on the lists of the best sequels ever. While Cameron's films do have a certain "coolness" to them, he has made some very solid films over the years and I don't think it's a stretch to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Never miss a chance to bag on King Kong do you, you worthless turd?
So something, anything, of actual value. Then I'll take your silly blather seriously. Until then go fly a kite.
Where the hell is your A Serious Man review? It's the best movie of the year and you're too busy wasting words on a movie you claim to feel "meh" about.
Devin,
You talk negatively about division, and yet you generalize Avatar fans. You paint your critics with a broad brush, as if none of them have any legitimate complaints over how CHUD has become a cynical soapbox that thrives on contradictory complaints.
I'm in complete agreement with Devin – I've been meh'ing and yawning all over all this Avatar stuff. The story is cliched as all hell – "Evil army oppresses nature loving people/race/creatures, ….ONE man, or small group lead by one hero must oppose army, army is defeated and everyone sings kumbaya." The world is….a jungle. Computer generated, but still a jungle. Why not just film real trees in the Amazon? The aliens are Star Trekky – they look JUST like humans…but a LITTLE bit different. All the fantasy illustrators out there, they can't make an alien look….alien!?
However, I will see it. Nothing else will be coming out that week. I have told many coworkers and friends this, many who are movie lovers. "What's "Avatar?" "I haven't heard of it yet……" I'm the ONLY person who has even heard of the damn movie so far!
You know what, my man. You seem to be a very witty and entertaining pop culture analyst. At times, I've found myself laughing out loud at the pieces you've written for your site (which I frequent quite regularly). Alas, this JIHAD that you've waged against this film over the past few months has removed any hint of objectivity from your journalism. From the fact that "The C.H.U.D. Man" has remained the Na'Vi "Blue Brother" since you'd seen the Comic-Con footage, to even the above article that is filled with more contradictions than an early '90's Hip-Hop album, please realize that you are not fooling anyone when you say that this is anything more than a personal beef you have with FOX, or an opportunity for publicity – SHOCK-JOCK style. Since this began, that's what you've become to me – the HOWARD STERN of nerd culture. And if you got any sort of compliment out of that, it was unintentional. You're making a huge ass of yourself and scratching the credibility off of your website in the process.
Wow, so many goddamn comments. OK, one more. In one of those blockbuster Spidey movies, it's commented that everyone delights in seeing the hero fall, and that the big seller will be in prognosticating Spider-man's demise. If the Marvel universe was real, Devin would be right there in front, predicting that death, and gunning for it to happen. I know he believes he wouldn't be. But he would. After reading Chud for 4+ years, it's pretty clearly in his nature.
Weird thing is, I agree with his Avatar ranting. Difference is, I would NEVER publish my pre-film-viewing beliefs. Why? I haven't seen the fucking movie. It's ridiculous, the idea of predicting whether a film will be good or not prior to seeing is CLEARLY just a case of wanting to be right. Buzz or no buzz, there is NOTHING substantive in this column. And this is coming from a person expecting Avatar to rank at best a B.
For the record, you say you would never publish your pre-film-viewing beliefs and then you say you expect it to rank at best a B.
Do you see that you're a moron?
"I live in a Hollywood bubble but my understanding is that Avatar hasn't quite become an event film for the general audience yet"
did someone say bubble butt or did someone say bubble butt?
I am attracted to this film's ambition. I just wish someone had said to Cameron: 'you need to make this for 150 million tops'. the marketing for this film really puts me off: I'm interested in characters and story, not effects and character design and 3D. As Cameron says on my DVD of 2001: A Space Odyssey, the most mind-blowing special effect of all is a brilliant script.
Devin is also kind of skeptical about Jesus. Bet that pisses off less of you than his skepticism of Avatar.
I miss the days when people were smart and didn't judge a movie by the trailer. Back when everybody assumed that trailers weren't indicative of the product they are trying to sell. Anyone who claims to be a film fan should know that at least 90% of all trailers sell films as complete opposites of what they turn out to be. Hell, Fox cut some awesome trailers for Episode I. Lots of great sweeping and dynamic shots, plenty of action, the familiar star wars iconography. Then the movie comes out and it's half senate debates a fart jokes. Somewhere along the way people started thinking trailers actually faithfully represent the movies they promote. These people are idiots. Trailers are designed to get people to a see a movie they would never see in a million years, not convince the people who will see it anyway (i.e. everybody here) that is good without them having to put time into it.
@#101: Bullshit. Plenty of people spotted Ep1 was a shitpile before seeing it in theatres. There were NEVER days when speculation on upcoming movies wasn't the meat and veg of all film nerds and movie magazines and entertainment shows.
Yeah, the movie looks meh. I'll still see it but Cameron seems to have compromised story for technology like so many directors before him. The contrast between this and District 9 gets more and more interesting.
the amount of rants (too few that really love this movie and too many truly leet geek net ragers farting all over the comment boxes) only underlines the main point of Devins view.. THIS MOVIE IS UNDERWHELMING… a movie to be seen.. eventually.. take a breath, these movies are like Six Flags, you don't give a shit about rollercoasters as entities, just entertain me for a little while (and leave me nauseous for hours)..
Who ever is handling the marketing is really doing a dis-service to Cameron. Another case of "if you have seen the trailers, you have seen the movie". Remember "300".
(Sigh) Kids these days…is there anything more intolerant than "fans" like these? Let's face it, the only diference between "Avatar" the movie and The Outer Limits episode "The Chameleon" the budget and hot blue CGI alien babes. Otherwise…well, we'll see.
Hang in there, dude.
Hmmm. Didn't DF highly tout District 9, which is a low budget (relatively) film doppleganger to Avatar? D9 has the same theme ( a man must become an alien to find his humanity), and the same premise (evil government/military types exploiting aliens for gain). The difference is D9's first half is fascinating and provocative but the latter half truly denigrates (no pun intended) into a blitzkreig of exploding humans and geeky video game referencing. The film attempts to redeem itself in the final minutes as it trys to get back on it's initial track with an info dumping narrative and sly sentimental scene that an experienced director would have shown entirely (to obtain that emotional connection) rather than partially narrate. This film had so much shit (a lot of it great, mind you) in it; it got constipated. In the end, there's partial sympathy for Wikus, plot holes everywhere (why doesn't the MNU just take a Prawn arm for their experiments, why chase Wikus?) and though more sympathy is produced for the Prawns, it's dubious (the've got nasty weapons and mutation inducing chemicals, so they aren't innocent either) I wasn't entirely sold on this film intellectually and emotionally. Unless a sequel is produced stat, there's no resolution and this film becomes one of the greatest wasted concepts of all time. And I'm trying to be very objective here. Yet DF proclaims D9 as"…one of the best films of the first decade of the 21st century." This I find really odd, considering that Avatar was coming down the bend, being helmed by one of the best living genre directors, with the biggest budget of all time and all we get is "meh" and it's probably a "B". I still love Devin and D9 was more than ok; but something's fishy here indeed because despite what is printed hereafter the verdict came in before the trial. Avatar may look cartoony, but it's going to be the best damn cartoon of all time and my inner child and I will enjoy the shit out of this no doubt.
Cameron's movies rarely work for you?Please tell me 'Aliens' is one of the ones that do work for you.Either way it's a fucking trailer and we won't know one way or the other till we have all seen it.I understand though the cynicism I mean all the blockbuster movies just don't seem to deliver like they used to,god knows I'm still recovering from the piece of shit that was crystal skull.BUT you can't blame people for being protective and excited about a new sci fi/action movie from the guy who has given us both of the real Terminator films and Aliens among others.As i said so many of these 'Big' movies turn out shit so we all get so excited when someone talented like Cameron is bringing one out.It's the way it is.
"I suspect that by February Avatar will be something in our rear view mirror as we all begin arguing about the Thor costume." Sad, but true. Such is the world of film geeks. Also, I agree that Avatar looks, at best, like a possible Netflix rental several years down the road. I love most of James Cameron's films (Terminator, T2, Aliens, The Abyss, True Lies). The man can make big "event" movies that are exciting and emotionally involving. Honestly, I really did not see what the big fuss was about for Titanic, it just wasn't a good film. And so far, none of the promotional stuff for Avatar has blown me away.
@#107: "Avatar may look cartoony, but it's going to be the best damn cartoon of all time and my inner child and I will enjoy the shit out of this no doubt." It's not going to be the best damn anything you fucking idiot. Best cartoon of 2009 was UP, followed closely by Ponyo and a bunch of Youtube animations. Avatar isn't even on the list. Drown your inner child – he's making you a retard.
I notice how Darin got the royal blow job from Zach Snyder and Warners with multiple set visits, cast access and he declares it a "classic."
No Avatar set visits, cast access, free toys = pre-emptive strike on a movie he hasn't even fucking seen yet. Great set of critic ethics you got there Devin.
You might want to read this as a primer to earn back whatever credibility you had:
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008/10/eberts_little_rule_book.html
No one in my circle of non-movie friends even knows what this movie is. But like hating Transformers 2 or Dark Knight most internet hoopla is just that.
Some people will love it because they feel the need too. The rest will probably skip it.
If anything, you do have the power to move the retards of the Interwebs in a way that fascinates me. For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly, even though I am very much looking forward to AVATAR. But I cannot stand dweebs who think that just because you don't see eye to eye with them, you're just trying to either look cool or piss them off, so you MUST. Be. DESTROYED. I almost want AVATAR to bomb, just to shut these people up till the "next big thing".
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