One of the biggest arguments about Lost in the years leading up to the finale was whether or not everything was planned out. I think showrunners Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof were pretty clear that it wasn’t; the fact that Mr. Eko left the show and that Ben ended up being a major player and that they were willing to discuss both those things is proof of that.
Now Cuse has given
an exit interview to SciFiWire, and it’s riling some folks up all over again. Which raises the question of ‘Should showrunners plan everything out in advance?’
The obvious answer is of course not. TV is a longform narrative medium, and it requires a certain amount of freedom. Actors come and go (sometimes even tragically), and storylines unexpectedly hit with the audience or shockingly sink. It’s important that a TV show be loose enough to roll with the punches as well as to explore the sudden moments of genius – these two actors have amazing chemistry, so we need to get them together, for instance. To say that a TV show have a complete storyline utterly mapped out to the last detail is silly; even novelists rarely walk into their work with every moment mapped out. Art is about discovery.
Here’s how Cuse explains it to SciFiWire: “There was a big, mythic architecture which included a lot of what’s in the finale, in terms of where we end the show, that we knew way back in the beginning. And then, before each season, we’d have a writers’ mini-camp and spend a month without any pressure of writing other scripts, figuring out the architecture of the upcoming season. That’d sort of take the artists’ rendering and turn it into blueprints, and then, during the season, episode by episode, we built the structure. We allowed ourselves a lot of flexibility to change things around as we were doing construction. It was impossible to have everything planned out, and so it was kind of built in stages.”
That makes a lot of sense. It’s a strong way to create a show like Lost. But why does it feel like this isn’t what happened?
The cautionary tale of Lost is, in the end, the same as The X-Files, but to the nth degree. Lost – and Cuse and Lindelof in particular – actively promoted fan speculation and investigation, getting people to pay lots of attention to the details and the way things fit together. But like The X-Files, there was no big, mythic architecture. They literally made it up as they went along. They didn’t know what the Smoke Monster was when they introduced it. It seems like they knew there was a hatch in the jungle from day one, but now what was in that hatch. That’s a problem. A huge problem.
Storytelling is about building a structure. The structure, in the end, has to be able to hold itself up. It should also, ideally, have a grace to it. There should be symmetry and there should be beauty in that structure. TV storytelling is different from movie storytelling; your movie structure should be tight and compact. Like a novel (or a good video game like Red Dead Redemption), a TV show structure will be more sprawling. Some wings will more or less lead to dead ends, but they should feel worthy of exploration even though they’re branching out from the main part of the structure. A good longform TV narrative will be slightly sloppier, but that’s part of the beauty. It’s why novels are almost always better than their film adaptations; like life itself, story feels better when it has some room to breathe and take tangents.
But any structure has to include some planning. And the reality is that the Lost writers did almost none, and the planning they did seems to have not taken into consideration what they already built. It’s almost mind-boggling that they would introduce major elements and not know what they meant. There was no need to have Smokey’s final days planned out from episode one, but knowing what the Smoke Monster was – in a most basic way – from its first appearance would have made its actions over the six season run of the show seem less arbitrary. I mean, if Smokey is planning on manipulating the Losties to get off or destroy the island, why would it wantonly kill everybody it met? When Smokey finally showed up in human form, people reacted to him predictably – they hated him and wanted to get away from or destroy him.
That was the essential problem with The X-Files, that the mythology wasn’t being thought out as it was introduced. The writers weren’t looking beyond that week’s episode, and sometimes weren’t even looking into the past to see how the new revelation impacted previous knowledge, or if the new revelation was even compatible with what went before. There’s a vocal subset of comic writers who hate the continuity of shared superhero universes, but readers know that half the fun is the continuity, and the same goes for longform TV. If you tell us this a show that has a storyline, we are going to pay attention to that storyline.
I don’t think Damon Lindelof needed to know in season one that the Losties would end up in the 70s. It’s like demanding a jazzman knows every note he’s going to play all night long. Part of the joy is the improv, the chasing after a thought that catches the artist’s fancy. You don’t judge these things by how well they’re planned, but by how well they’re executed. That jazzman needs to bring everything together in a cohesive whole, to figure out how to get that riff back to the main structure of the piece and rejoin the other musicians. And within that riff he needs to understand how the notes work together so that he’s not just playing random, cacophonous noise. It’s partially a high wire act, but that’s the fun, and that’s why you go see live jazz. And it’s why you watch a longform TV show – not because you’re interested in a story so vast it needs 120 hours to tell, but because you like that feeling of fun and surprise that comes when an artist has the room to improvise.
And it’s about trust. You trust that jazzman is going to understand each note he plays and how it relates to the next, even if you don’t think he has the whole bit in his head in advance. And you trust that the writers understand the elements they’re introducing, that they’re not just sitting in the writer’s room playing an elaborate game of Exquisite Corpse: “The main character walks into a room on the space station and sees his dad, who has been dead for 30 years! The end, it’s your turn to figure out what happens next.” That’s a fun game to play, but not as much fun to watch.
It’s not important that a TV show know where it’s going from the start. I don’t care whether or not the writers knew that Angel would one day run a Wolfram & Hart office when they introduced that evil lawfirm on Angel, I just care that when they made that happen they had some idea of what they wanted to do with it and why the hero’s antagonist suddenly wanted him on their side. Just as people get down on George Lucas for not having 14 Star Wars movies planned out in advance, they’ll continue being down on Lindelof and Cuse for not having all of Lost mapped out in advance. But those people are wrong on both counts – it’s not that Lucas and Lindelof and Cuse didn’t have it planned out, it’s that they couldn’t execute what they set out to do. If the Prequels had been made up on set but had turned out to be the most satisfying story ever told, nobody would give a shit that Lucas didn’t have a magic ledger with all the details set down in 1975. And if the ending of Lost had worked, nobody would care that Lindelof had no plans for Walt back in 2004.
45 comments
Devin will not rest until all Lost fans denounce the show and kill themselves.
On the continuity side of things I think that description of their process might be on the money, as it apparently doesn't include re-watching their own show. Continuity can be oppressive to a writer as you outline above, but surely that's where a really good (script?) editor comes into play? Let them be creative and write the basics out and get a groove on, but then hand it all over to someone with the right sort of detail-oriented mind to start asking important questions and with enough clout to tell even the showrunners they're getting off track. Lucas could have done with one of these people. If you're working in an industry, a creative factory if you will, then it makes sense to have someone independent doing a quality check at certain points of the production line. Is there such a person on shows like LOST or do the showrunners perform that duty?
smokie's main initial goal w/the losties was not 2 destroy or escape the island but to kill jacob and his candidates so that he could leave. they control his exit and he cannot harm them directly so any non-candidate is open to death.
if anything, smokey was improvising as he went along- island destruction fell in his lap when desmond showed up and when one wily e. coyote manipulation of losties to kill each other didn't work he tried another. their death alone sets him free, not their help and support. everything and anything was a means to an end including being their friend and liberator. 1st priority- kill jacob/ destroy temple. 2nd- kill candidates. 3rd- go home. and then he made it up as he went along. despite it's flaws this was a much better finale/ mythos wrapup than xfiles or bsg in their last season.
Yes, but The X-Files was usually in danger of being cancelled during it's first 3 seasons. Lost was not.
Didn't read the article in case there are spoilers (haven't really watched Lost yet), but I strongly agree with the topic's sentiment. Some famous author once said something like 'if the writer knows where it's going, the reader will too'. Maybe that's bullshit, I don't know, but either way, a good story is a good story.
All excellent points – my problem with Lucas and Lost is the CLAIM that it was all plotted out. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Lucas didn't – otherwise, why were brother and sister Frenching one another in TESB? Why these guys can't admit "yeah, I know how it starts and how it ends, but I have no idea how the journey will go" is beyond me.
interesting…
could you elaborate a little bit more on "it's that they couldn't execute what they set out to do"
And this isn't attack from me, but serious question. They set out to do character piece and they executed it
I read an article by a writer who worked on Lost explaining the ending, and it said that they already had the exact ending planned since right after the pilot and they stuck to it. If that's true, then in this case, it sounds to me like they freely made it up as the went along, but felt obliged to bring it to the ending we got. Now, I don't know about you, but to me, it's pretty ridiculous to let a show evolve so much and then not even consider changing the ending you wrote right after the pilot, especially considering the wonderful concepts introduced throughout the show's run, which I'm sure they had not imagined when they started.
"Why these guys can't admit "yeah, I know how it starts and how it ends, but I have no idea how the journey will go" is beyond me"
Um, not sure if you actually read the article above, but that's exactly what Lindelof and Cuse have done from day one.
I think it's the fact that they introduced elements into an epsiode or a season when they clearly had no idea how it fit into the story they were telling. That is just sloppy writing and it jumped out at me almost immediately during the first season. It's like constructing a jigsaw puzzle where you have to cut the pieces up to make them fit and paint in the picture as you go along. But still calling it a puzzle despite this.
I may have missed this. But could they have planned initially for the Island itself to be purgatory? I know they say they didn't but they also "said" a lot of things. Initially, maybe, the Island could have been purgatory. But then, fans started guessing that it was indeed purgatory. To save face and keep everyone guessing, the producers switch plans midstream. They end up bringing the purgatory idea back for the last season.
What is the meaning of the graphic that is running with this article? I'd appreciate an explanation.
Well said.
"They set out to do character piece and they executed it". -reader
If all they wanted to do was a character piece then they shouldn't have bothered with all the supernatural mystery.
I've read a few articles by Devin regarding his feelings on Lost, and it baffles me that he and I watched the same show. In order for me to understand his point, I need to know specific examples of continuity errors on the show. I think in order to critique Lost, we need to judge it for what it is rather than for what it isn't. What it's not is a plot-driven show. Rather, it's an allegory (at the very least, allegorical) and by its very nature is open to interpretation. We need to remember that the characters were not there to solve the mysteries of the island; the island existed as a setting upon which the characters' struggles could play out. In my opinion, I disagree completely in his opinion that the show was contridictory to its own continuity. I'll agree that there might have been flubs here and there (Ethan super strength) but as Devin stated, it's bound to happen on a long running TV show. Television writers don't have the priviledge of time or revision. The fact that they managed to craft a character-driven story as tightly and with as few errors as they did is something I find truly outstanding. Ultimately, I think it comes down to what you want out of a TV show. If you don't like symbolism over plot, then it isn't the show for you, but I feel as though you have to acknowledge that and not criticize it for something it never was in the first place.
At times, I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with you completely. With your assessment of the LOST finale, I disagreed with you. On my initial viewing, I thought it was good. Upon thinking about it, I'm convinced of its brilliance. I'm not a religious man, but I found it funny how people could find an Alternate Reality so believable and a version of the afterlife as portrayed in the show as some kind of contrivance. Aren't these two things, essentially, one in the same? The finale of LOST required divisiveness and debate and that's what it gave. The anarchist in me loves that fact. Also, we live in an age where dark, morose endings are the new cliche. Is the fact that LOST gave us something bittersweet in the wake of years of teenage execution and patricide, really so wrong? I don't think so.
But I'm totally off subject here… sort of. I was a big X-Files fan and I find the comparison to LOST rather unfair… to LOST, anyway. X-Files flew off the rails years before it ended and I feel LOST ended right on time. Is it unfair for writers and producers to say they have a plan, when they really don't? I don't think so. They want you to be invested in the characters, obviously… but for shows like this there is always a danger in having the story take over. LOST did that for some people, it's true. They wanted answers more than they gave a shit what happened to anyone, but I think that's one of the negative aspects of television in general.
Nobody cares if Stephen King had a "plan all along" when writing The Stand… but if you take a work that stretches over a long period of time, like The Dark Tower, and suddenly people DO care. It's an investment. They want to believe (no pun intended) that their time was worth something. But, having dabbled in writing, it is also something to let your writing guide your imagination than to let your imagination guide your writing.
I have no problem with Cuselof not having known the story all along. For anybody to really believe that is completely silly. For all of the reasons you pointed out above, writing a show over 6 seasons with actors coming and going and with writer's strikes and the like… could you expect nothing less?
Yet, if you are going to have a mythology, you better have an ending planned for your show… or at the very least, an end-date. By my estimation, regardless of what some people felt about the finale, an extension with no end-date would have spelled utter disaster as it did for The X-Files with its 9 seasons of "Are there, or aren't there, aliens?" and "What is the conspiracy?"
Shows with a shorter duration of time are the answer. Cap it at 4 or 5 seasons, I say. Now I can go lay down in that bamboo field over there.
Nice stream of consciousness, Devin, but your last sentence completely contradicts your already-fairly-contradictory article. "Not knowing what the Smoke Monster is when they introduced him is a huge problem. Unless I had liked the ending. Then it would've been fine."
I see the world still hasn't had enough with the prequal bashing. It seems like I can't go around the entire world wide web these days without having to hear about how bad the newest Star Wars are…. even in an article about Lost!
@#12: Island Kate not Princess Kate. The graphic is of a guy inadvertently, uncannily doing "Jack Face" in such a way that underscores how stupid that shtick got during the season. It was very one-note and very annoying.
I agree with #1. And it's getting really old.
I'm pretty sure that the purgatory ending was arrived at during production. The LOST team seemed incredibly sensitive about being a step ahead of the audience. Rewatch those first few episodes of S6…they absolutely so not line up. This was supposed to be an alternate timeline, people guessed, and they changed it. The End (my cock).
You're playing semantics, Devin. People are trying to articulate that things FEEL like they are just "being made up as they go along." We all know this has nothing to do with when in particular a story element gets planned out. What it has everything to do with is something very important to the story coming off as poorly thought out and/or arbitrary.
People don't really care whether they 'made it all up as they went along'. All story tellers do. The writing progresses with the story, obviously. It's a evolutionary process. It's the fact that over the entire run of the show (until now…how convenient) the creators were reluctant…even adamant in their refusal to admit in doing so. In many past interviews they spun their ambiguous words…behind a veil of smugness to boot. Deceptively roping their loyal followers in by dazzling them with superficial mystery and intrigue. Holding firm while expressing that everything was etched in stone, completely mapped out and that all questions posed had well thought out answers.
They didn't of course, which is fine and no great surprise but by trying to save face they dug their own graves.
Pride comes before the fall…
The writers' creativity and imagination was great at first, but you have to know when to stop. It's a gamble, and the longer you play, the longer you draw out your chance to lose. The LOST writers played too long, in my humble opinion. LOST had so much potential when the hatch entered the picture, and the Dharma Initiative answered some significant early questions.. Unfortunately the writers failed to explain the bigger ones, and LOST progressed into time travel (which was not all that bad) and mysterious lights and temples (which were bad). LOST crossed a line: the writers strung together so many different fictitious theories that it could not fulfill an ending to match.
I agree with Dev. We've been hoodwinked. If the writers don't know what's going on, then the whole thing's a lie, and pointless for the viewer to watch.
Does anyone else find it ironic that Devin is criticizing a show's structure and purpose in a post that's rambling, contradictory, and absent of an overarching point? This would be clever satire if it were self-aware.
For as much as Devin hated the finale of Lost as has sure written enough about it. Dude let it go and move on. Like everyone else.
I don't think the comparisons to the X-Files are totally accurate, as I think X actually did have a pretty solid spine guiding things by the second season, from which they went on tangents – and then eventually ran out of material for and had to go off into new areas. Granted, the season finale was the polar opposite of Lost's – total exposition for two episodes full of answers…but I was a lot more satisfied after that than Lost's.
Or, rather, let's put it this way. If The X Files comes on randomly, I'll totally watch it if I'm flipping. I will never, ever watch another episode of Lost again.
Well, the problem with LOST in the end, was that it was a show that used mystery reveals as a dramatic hook. When you spin things that way, just for the fucking sake of it, and don't have a plan for some of them, it is just manipulation not mythology building. A supposed show "about the characters" wasted a lot of energy on nonsense and cheap tactics to keep viewers hooked.
I tend to agree with Devin on most things, but not so much this time. I thought the finale was beautifully executed and ended the 6 year journey as best as it could. I don't mind that I don't know the exact origins of the island. All I know is that it was seemingly "the key to mankind's existence" and that if the evil it housed were to escape, the world would face imminent doom. For me, that's explanation enough. The mysteries of the show were intriguing and certainly kept me coming back every week. However, the aspects that made me CARE about the show as deeply as I do were seeing how the characters reacted to those mysteries and to each other. The character resolution, ultimately, was my main concern and I was more than satisfied with how it played out.
I've read people say that there were two types of people that watched the show: those for the characters and those for the myth. I think that's an accurate description. Unfortunately the finale didn't seem to work for those on the myth side, and I'm sorry that they weren't able to enjoy it as much as I did. It's a polarizing show, but I think that's just one more reason why it was so great. It created a universe that allowed this much discussion and debate. I can't think of too many other shows that have done that.
As for the continuity issue, and I won't say that this definitely refutes Devin's assumption that there was none, but in the last issue of WIRED magazine they wrote a number of short articles on the show. One of them was with the Continuity Director (or similar title). I can't remember his exact credentials without them in front of me but he goes into great detail about how meticulous he was with ensuring the continuity throughout the series. I'd suggest reading it, just to get that insider perspective.
I am so glad the Star Wars Prequels are finally being brought up with comparison to the way LOST ended, this is a connection I made on Monday but not it the way anyway seems to be taking it. I feel like people are bitching about LOST because it wasn't Ep I. Everyone on the planet lost their shit when midichlorins were mentioned. "It's a mystical, spiritual semi-magic "Force" we don't need some bullshit tacked on psuedo science bullshit answer." Then why the hell do we need one for the island. If you are gonna claim that the force was more explained in the holy trilogy than the island was in LOST you are just being disingenuous. Do I have questions, of course I do that's half the fun. Do I wonder where "Mother" came from? Yes of course I will will continue to speculate that answer. But don't we all agree that Boba Fett was way fuckin cooler when we were kids and all we knew was that he was a badass bounty hunter. There will always be a few pieces of sand in the ointment when it comes to LOST, but it kicked my ass and fascinated me for six years. I really don't know what more I could ask for from a TV show.
PS I don't why people don't seem to realise what I feel is pretty obvious that "purgatory" was the bubble sideways alternate universe created when the nuke went off at the end of season five. Hurley didn't create "purgatory" Juliet did. All of them as a group went to set off the nuke(you all created this place together), afterlife alternate reality wouldn't contridict the rules for time travel the show had established(like a record, whatever happened, happened) and we know eltormagnatism if the power of the isalnds power(a big box where whatever you imagine will be there) and Juliet says "It worked". Not to mention when Juliet is knocking that rock on Jughead the last thing she is thinking of a preventing a plane crash she was never on, no shes just wishing she had the ability for her and her freinds tro be happy and have what they want. And of course the only fade to white in the history of the show to paralell the light as Christian opens the doors in finale.
@JMG84, that was hilarious.
This reminds me of the 'AND THEY HAVE A PLAN' line in the BATTLESTAR GALACTICA titles. In fact, I don't think they did have a plan. Not at all.
Devin's article is complete crap.
The ending worked on absolutely every level. It didn't painstakingly answer every question, but it was satisfying. The smoke monster was evil and it killed pretty much everybody it came across–except those that it couldn't… If they were somehow crossed off the list of potential candidates in the cave–or if they weren't somehow under Jacob's protection.
Sure not everything was planned out, but sense can be made of everything–yet I know that there's some thinking involved. Not that it's Devin's strong suit. Chud sucks.
I see people bring up BSG a lot and the "and they have a plan" line pointing out that they didn't
uummmmm wasn't the plan in BSG to infiltrate the fleet and destroy it from within???
the 'plan' was what the entire fucking show was about wasn't it…thats what I thought anyway.
BSG was made up as it went along. And I wouldn't care if Lost was like that too, but it wasn't – they took some detours and made some changes as they went along, but that ending and the overall story is exactly what they had in mind from day-one.
Devin gets it wrong – again.
Another Advocate on Lost? Pardon me a long and bored sigh. CHUD's actual news coverage has really dwindled lately. It's no longer my first stop for the latest in whatever – I guess if I'm interested in beating dead TV horses and stories about the same handful of movies over and over, I'll know where to turn.
Devin just wants a personal apology from the writer's of Lost and then maybe he'll stop acting like the show ending was the same as an ex-girlfriend dumping him.
He wants a "it's not you, it's us" letter.
Better yet, maybe Devin will actually write his own show that last 6 years so he can prove how easy it is.
I think a lot of you just automatically disagree with everything devin writes, regardless of what the topic or point of view is. I totally agree with this Advocate. I loved this show for years, watched it in groups of friends every week, and i feel totally let down by the end. Not because they "didn't answer everything", but because they didn't answer ANYthing. I would have liked to know what happened to these characters after they got off the island, at least.
They had that ass-turd planned from day one? You really buy that? Devon is right, Lost was jazz, and they got lazy and tired and fucked up the WHOLE second half of the song.
As a storyteller, it isn't essential that you have an answer for everything you write. Dickens didn't explain the ghosts. However, when you have so much supernatural emphasis on your story, unlike Dickens, you need to come up with at least some answers.
I hope Lindeloff, Cuse and Abrams enjoyed the fame and fortune that Lost brought them, because I will never watch another thing they create.
I keep thinking about the shows that do better at structuring their storyline, like Doctor Who (at least the new series) or Buffy, and about the difference between episodic and serial storytelling in television. If you are going to have a mythology or a Big Bad in your television serial, then there should be a structure thought out in advance where even a non-mythos episode could, in some way, refer back to the main mythological structure.
But then consider Star Trek, TOS or TNG — neither went for the serial structure, but they did have large mythos in the creation of the universe, and needed continuity that way. In the same way many superhero universes have been creating their continuity — piece by piece, as they move forward, rather than hinting at the mythos as it moved towards the Big Climax, which is what Buffy and Doctor Who do.
In a way, Lost is like a hybrid of these two approaches: the show appeared to have a planned out structure that they were hinting at what the Big Climax would be (and I think the earlier seasons saw this work, similar to the Buffy and Doctor Who formats), but then they also tried to create their own mythos universe as it moved forward by introducing so many different elements and trying to maintain continuity that way (i.e. the Star Trek method).
Personally, I think the earlier seasons worked better.
I want to go back and rewatch Brisco County Jr, also a Cuse production, to pay attention to how they handle the overarching storyline of the orbs.
I really think a lot of these comments are funny. Yes, Devin's post is not well-written. But honestly, NO ONE except for the producers themselves knows how they wanted it to end from the start. Personally, I believe they had a plan, but as people figured it out, they altered it to keep that element of surprise. That's just my personal opinion. The sideways purgatory ending made me believe that the island was originally a purgatory, but when everyone figured it out, they altered it in some way.
Just me.
And NO ONE on here can say they know different, because the writers/producers can say anything they want to, no matter what their original intent was.
Doesn't anybody remember how they said Jack was going to die right away in the first season?
So how can the show end with him dying when they wrote him in and kept him alive because he was so popular after the first 3 episodes .
I love how Devin thinks that Cuse saying there was a "big, mythic architecture" as proof that there was not.
It is nice that Chud provides a nice, simplistic counterpoint to the well-thought-out Back to the Island column.
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